What do Islamofacism, methamphetamine production, tort lawyers, and homemade fireworks have in common? The answer is that they are all part of the seemingly inevitable process of destroying the childhood Chemistry Set. A.C. Gilbert, in 1918 was titled the “Man who Saved Christmas” with his innovative ideas of packaging a few glass tubes and some common chemicals into starter kits that enabled a generation to learn the joy of experimentation, and the basis for the scientific method of thought.
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Chemcraft Chemistry Set | Gilbert Chemistry Set |
Some of Gilbert’s original sets included such items as sodium cyanide, radioactive samples (complete with a Geiger counter), and glass blowing kits. I will freely admit that one of the first things I did with my chemistry set was to attempt to make an explosive. I remember mixing up chemicals that evolved free chlorine gas and having to evacuate the house. I remember mixing potassium nitrate and sugar to make rocket engines and quickly evolving to higher specific impulse fuels. I remember the joy of finally obtaining some nitric acid which allowed me to nitrate basically everything in the house (cotton for gun cotton, glycerine and alcohol for nitroglycerine). So yes, I have to admit that there is a risk involved. But this is how people learn. Sometimes knowledge comes with pain — one-shot induction.
Today however, the Chemistry Set is toast. Current instantiations are embarrassing. There are no chemicals except those which react at low energy to produce color changes. No glass tubes or beakers, certainly no Bunsen burners or alcohol burners (remember the clear blue flames when the alcohol spilled out over the table). Today’s sets cover perfume mixing and creation of luminol (the ‘CSI effect’ I suppose).
In some States, you need a FBI criminal background check to purchase chemicals. Some metals, like lithium, red phosphorus, sodium and potassium, are almost impossible to purchase in elemental form. This is thanks to their use in manufacturing methamphetamine. Sulphur and potassium nitrate, both useful chemicals, are being classified as class C fireworks (here is a good precursor link). Mail order suppliers of science products are raided. Many over-the-counter compounds now require what is essentially a (poor) background check. Even fertilizer (ammonium nitrate) is under intense scrutiny. Where does this trend end? Ten years from now, will the list include table salt, seawater and natural gas — precursors to many industrical chemicals?
Then there is the liability issue. Of course some people buy into the lets be safe at any cost and assert that much chemistry can be done without explosions and stinky fumes. If a ladder manufacturer is under a constant barrage of liability suits, imagine the torrent of litigation directed to those giving a child a set of potentially dangerous chemicals. Its a CHILD, for God’s sake. [Oh, I’m sorry, for a minute there I was waxing Democrat.]
Yet there is still a little hope. Although Thames and Kosmos can’t ship their sets with the full range of chemicals needed to perform their listed experiments, at least they provide a list of sources from which to acquire them (assuming the appropriate permits, licenses, fees, FEES, background checks, and did I mention fees.) What is at stake here is no less than the future of America’s competitiveness and the innovation the make the United States the magnet for international entrepreneurs and scientists. Without the chemistry set, will we have scientists and innovators, or just a country of rock stars, political commentators and movie idols.
[Author’s Note: This article is primarily a result of my frustration in trying to acquire a few hundred grams of potassium carbonate for an electrolyte solution.]
Update: See also Sightings in the Wild on this blog.
October 31, 2007 at 12:32 pm
I used to love playing with chemistry sets, glass tubes and all. I remember the first one I had I mixed up this liquid that was not listed in any of the experiments that came with my set. It changed colors nicely, and when I spilled it on the floor and it started smoking and eating the sealer off of the floor. Numerous fires and smoky rooms later I ran out of chemicals. They were easy to get back then. My mother was not happy about the floor, but she understood that I was learning what all of these did together. I was about 8 years old at this time. Recently my oldest son wanted a chemistry set so we started looking, and as you stated it is hard to find anything good. My wife likes to go to garage sales so one day she talked me into going with her. I just so love looking at other peoples junk. But low and behold, at one of the sales there was a chemistry set. In a metal, tri-folding box. They had a $5 price on it. I opened it up and there were ALL of the chemicals, some had been about half used, but a pretty good collection none the less. I snagged it up for the $5 and went home happy. I think I had as much fun with it as my Son did and no one died, we didnt make any crystal meth. But we created a lot of smoke and a few fires. It even had the glass alcohol burner, the wick had never been lit no alcohol but that was easy to get.
Long Sappy story but I agree totally that this is killing the innovation that this country was built on. If you blow something up you live and you learn and move on to more powerful things, and know not to do that again, unless you want to.
Later On
February 16, 2011 at 10:41 pm
I see you wrote this many years ago, but your comment got me excited. I’ll be visiting some garage sales this summer for sure… what a find!
October 31, 2007 at 12:54 pm
The chemistry set I had, from age ten or so, would cause fits, faints and gunplay today. My dad put it together. I had all the common mineral acids in concentrated AR form, all the glassware needed to do reflux reactions and all the analytical equipment (scales and such) to do the stoichiometry. This was a terrific way to learn chemistry even though my parents and neighbors had good reason to complain about some of the more, uh, dramatic results.
It’s the same with engines, too. You can’t do all the tinkering and tweaking that helps you figure out how machinery works. Even lawn mowers and chain saws (precursors in my day to go-karts and other dodgy toys) have emissions controls and tamper-resistant this and that.
October 31, 2007 at 12:58 pm
If you want the terrists to be able to make some WMDs and Anthracks and DIRTY BOMBS with the radioactive chemicals then go ahead and let them buy chemistry sets. then youll learn.
September 2, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Shut the fuck up Clint, pack your bags, and go live somewhere idiots are welcome. Wait a minute; you’re already there (USA), fuckface!
July 15, 2010 at 9:36 pm
1. terrorists, not terrists u dumbass orob republican rednek
2. anthrax. im 12 and i didnt even had to look up the spelling.
3. u dnt make anthrax, dirtybombs or WMD with radioactive chemicals
4. NONE OF THE CHEMICALS ARE RADIOACTIVE DUMBASS.
Get ur facts straight u obliviuos republican hyper conservative probably rasict SOB
January 28, 2012 at 7:42 am
it is redneck with a (c) ,
June 5, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Conservatives aren’t for regulations….
March 22, 2014 at 6:11 am
Haha guys, Clint is clearly kidding. He is obviously being extremely sarcastic, and is trying to mock vacuous, close-minded people who do not take what Fox news has to say with a grain of salt! That was a good one Clint! You almost got me for a second!!
July 24, 2015 at 9:40 am
Holy crap on a cracker Clintus…Why are you even on this site ?
October 31, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Re: comments by Clintus McDoughy
Let’s be logical here, Clintus. If “terrists” want to build WMD’s, dirty bombs, etc., they won’t be doing so by purchasing home chemistry sets.
My now 9 yrs old daughter wanted a chemistry set two years ago for christmas. I searched and did the best I could, but she was sorely disappointed. “But where is the burner?” she asked. She wanted the real deal of my childhood, but it simply doesn’t exist anymore.
How can we expect to be a nation strong in the sciences if we don’t allow our curious and intelligent children to experiment? It’s all part of the dumbing down of our nation, and we will continue to pay for it down the road.
September 1, 2010 at 2:42 am
@Katherine Freeman ” If “terrists” want to build WMD’s, dirty bombs, etc., they won’t be doing so by purchasing home chemistry sets.”
Indeed. I think that sums up the ridiculousness of this entire argument, nicely. Good point.
And this further enhances my hatred (rant loading…) for america. It’s an obtuse bully that does all these irrational things (eliminating home chem sets?? ffs come on. that’s just screaming out “desperation” and fear) to try to “increase security”. Eliminating a young chemist’s utensils from his learning is not going to prevent a terrorist from attacking. IF anything, you might end up with an angry chemist on your hands (because can’t get a chem set) AND that, my friend, would be truly something to fear! ;D.
October 31, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Right, the tidbit of radioactive material in a chem set is a risk? I’m sorry, but the high school chem lab has better. And they’re not that hard to get into. Oh and they can make dirty bombs from other sources. Your arguement is full of holes.
October 31, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Edmunds Scientific still sells a decent chemistry set:
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3001651
Enjoy.
October 31, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Ahhh my first chemistry set…”wow yellow fire, wow green fire, wow blue fire, wow what a BIG fire!”
October 31, 2007 at 1:40 pm
I have a chemical supplier near my work which, I’m sure, has had to undergo many changes due to stupid laws. But the only black mark on this good article was trying to blame political parties. Much of the governmental interference has been in the past few years… and it’s a bad idea to start pointing fingers at specific parties instead of an overwhelming trend of idiots in power, forcing their fears onto legitimate users in the form of laws.
October 31, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Uh, I think (hope) that Clintus was kidding…
Anyway, I’m a pretty successful research chemist now and it all started with pretty pictures of experimentation in elaborate glassware. At the age of 4 I decided I wanted to do that. Got my first set at 7 and off we went!
My oldest is 8 and I will be getting him a chemistry set. As long as I can find him the bare bones and experiment book off Ebay, I can get the chemicals specified in the experiments at work. He wants to be a chemist when he grows up, too!
October 31, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Do you thin the millions of victims of the 9/11 tradegy think I am joking? Sure, no one may be able to do much with one chemistry set. but think if they bought several at a time and think the things they can do!? They educate all the terroist in AMERICA and send them back to iraq where their intellignce and minds become CORRUPTED so they do twisted things and make dirty bombs with simple things like fertalizor and candles and chemistry sets. We have to sacrafice to, just like our MEN in uniform are sacrtificing for US. Do you think they give a hogs wash about a chemistry set? NOT WHEN THEY ARE DODGING ROADSIDE BOMBS! thats our responsibility to worry. you all need to get THAT in your HEADS.
November 30, 2016 at 9:36 am
1. All the people who died in 9/11 died from a plane crashing into a building,not a bomb.Also,they are all DEAD,so they can’t think you are joking.
2. A dirty bomb is defined as a nonnuclear explosive weapon than releases radiation.You need a large amount of radioactive material,not just “candles and fertalizor and chemistry sets”.
3. You don’t need a chemistry set(or any formal chemistry education,for that matter) to build a bomb.You can get instructions to build one off the internet and get all the supplies from a hardware store.
July 13, 2019 at 5:55 pm
Hi Carabello: Admittedly three years after your post and twelve after the original comment I am reading this thread and LOL at or with Clintus as appropriate. This isn’t the sort of thread that village idiots (or illiterates) would tend to frequent. So I am taking his comments with a grain of NaCl (make that a cow lick for those who have spent some time on a farm).
Me, I’m just a fair to middling dumb Economics major, attorney who has taken a goodly dose of science and math courses and thoroughly enjoyed them. I also have fond memories in grades 6 and 7 of a wonderful Christmas when I received a propane gas cylinder, bunsen burner, torch attachment and a 2 oz bottle of liquid mercury my father bought so I could complete a mercury barometer I was trying to construct in our basement. And yes, I paid the freight with a few painful but non-lethal burns while learning glass forming and blowing. Didn’t burn the house down, but I did learn why my dad insisted I have a fire extinguisher in the area where I payed with my Gilbert’s chemistry set. I guess as a practicing physician/surgeon with an undergraduate major in Chemistry dad figured he could handle most anything I could get into – God rest his soul!
October 31, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Wow, Clintus. Regardless of you being one step from illiterate, you’re irrational post is not only unfounded but also pointless. While even pre-9/11 chemistry sets had a couple chemicals capable of making a little smoke and fumes, you can always do better by shopping the cleaning section at the grocery.
The only “problem” with all of this education is that you apparently didn’t get any.
October 31, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Here is a detailed link to that chemistry set. http://storeforknowledge.com/CHEM-C3000-Chemistry-Experiment-Kit-P5760C198.aspx
October 31, 2007 at 2:32 pm
# Clintus McDoughy Says:
October 31, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Do you thin the millions of victims of the 9/11 tradegy think I am joking? Sure, no one may be able to do much with one chemistry set. but think if they bought several at a time and think the things they can do!? They educate all the terroist in AMERICA and send them back to iraq where their intellignce and minds become CORRUPTED so they do twisted things and make dirty bombs with simple things like fertalizor and candles and chemistry sets.
Well maybe we should outlaw boxknife’s that’s what the terrorist used not chemistry sets and then maybe we should schools and education. Are you that dumb Clintus.
October 31, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Hey Clintus, I think you would be better suited to get a Leapfrog so you can work on your spelling and vocabulary and leave national security to the educated.
Illiteracy is a bigger threat to our freedom and lifestyle than anything that could be produced from a chemistry set.
October 31, 2007 at 3:08 pm
It’s a sad comment our over reactive society to deprive children of a childhood rite, at least one that we of an older generation recall. Yet, we clamour for more of our students to take an interest in science but we make their introduction nearly impossible. It’s obvious our other efforts are not working. Maybe a bit of common sense and reality will make us realize the benefits of such activity and create our own scientists for good. Instead of evil.
October 31, 2007 at 3:58 pm
I have great memories of my friend Brian and I playing with his chemistry set. Poor children today.
October 31, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Shouldn’t the amateur chemist approach be to make or refine the needed chemicals themselves?
It’s not that difficult to burn hardwood to ash, make the ash into lye, and the boil the lye down to retrieve the potash. Okay, it’s impure but it’s still a form of potassium carbonate.
If they could extract sulphur from pyrite in the 1800s, then a halfway decent amateur chemist should be able to manage it today.
While it’s been a long time since I studied organic chemistry, I can still think of scores of chemicals that I could extract and refine from naturally occurring raw materials. And with access to a supermarket or hardware store, well…
And here’s one for Clintus, have you considered banning urine? After all, it can be used to make urea nitrate – which goes BANG! (As for the nitric acid, it was first synthesised back in 700AD or so, so again quite doable today. Oh, and to make Clintus really paranoid, it was a Muslim who first synthesised nitric acid. They must have been planning this for a long time.)
October 31, 2007 at 4:22 pm
All Clintus is saying
is give fear a chance
October 31, 2007 at 4:44 pm
gess then chemustry fumes has made you unable to detect a clintus troll
October 31, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Thinking can get you killed. Stop thinking, watch TV and shut up.
October 31, 2007 at 5:13 pm
As TM wrote in regards to Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel:
Do Not Feed The Troll!
Come on people, general apparent IQ of those posting comments thus far seems to be high enough to realize this 😉
October 31, 2007 at 7:29 pm
The radiomaterial in a Gilbert chemistry set was Uranium (ore), which is found in about 80% of the Earth’s crust. You get more activity from the thorium contained in the granite blocks at the corner bank. Grab a Geiger counter and check it out yourself. Uranium was a reasonable choice as it emits alpha, beta and gamma, giving the novice a good way to experiment.
If I were going to make a dirty bomb, I would be looking for Cesium-137 in the techno-junk that hospitals routinely disgard in their old radiotherapy equipment. Or look for Strontium-90 on some post-USSR mountain tops (Lja, Georgia) where it was used in radiothermonic power sources for aeronautical navigational beacons (NDBs)— long since abandoned.
And even a poor chemist could do you with a chemical WnsMD (not-so mass) made from mixing a couple of household cleaners found in virtually any home. Add a little CO from a smokey flame and presto: a nice green ground hugging cloud that makes you wish you were only snorting wasabi.
And Ni, I was not really pointing fingers. If I were I would probably have either run out or had to borrow a few other Angry-Men’s hands.
October 31, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Stonehead wrote:
>>>It’s not that difficult to burn hardwood to ash, make the ash into lye, and the boil the lye down to retrieve the potash. Okay, it’s impure but it’s still a form of potassium carbonate.<<<
I actually have done that. Even the distilling is not that difficult. Wood selection is critical as some softwoods, seaweeds and grasses give Sodium Carbonate and hard woods give Potassium Carbonate. You have to use ashes, not charcoals, and you need a lot, and the leaching process takes a really long time. And it’s messy.
My point in the post was that the logical extension of this thought process does just that: basic precursors like seawater, natural gas, etc. become controlled. In Texas it’s already illegal to own a boiling flask.
October 31, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Real chemists don’t even use test tubes. 😛 We use lots of round bottom flasks.
October 31, 2007 at 8:51 pm
I have plenty of TT’s and flasks from my childhood chemistry days. All this time I thought my E-Bay riches would be in collectibles like baseball cards, and now I find out that my real money is in the flasks? Wow, you never see the opportunities coming!
October 31, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Got a citation for that?
October 31, 2007 at 9:23 pm
I remember my first chemistry set – it looked something like the one in the picture, with twenty or thirty little bottles. I took a look at the “embarrassing” link and was appalled to see something billing itself as a “Chemistry Set” containing only citric acid and gelatin. Go squeeze an orange!
Regarding methamphetamines, I think the precautions the government has taken are absolutely ridiculous. I work at a retail pharmacy where many customers weren’t too happy about the “pseudoephedrine logs” we had to fill out every time they purchased PSE, and now the scanning of licenses (this is New Jersey).
But most of today’s chemistry kits revolve around the creation of polymers, crystals, or litmus paper, which are interesting enough in their own right but certainly should not be the extent of such sets. I feel bad for all the children whose parents buy them this crap for Christmas.
P.S. If I had a few hundred grams of potassium I’d readily send it to you. 🙂
October 31, 2007 at 9:49 pm
[rant]
I am not a real common responder to blogs, but I have to say that I have to agree with several comments, so here is my political mumbo-jumbo in relation to this…
China (Republic of China for that matter) = Communist
Republican party running government != Communist?
Democracy = Demos Cratos = Power of the people
And lastly…
Communist != Democracy
I know I will get cheesed for saying that, but I really am sick of feeling that every day I am being watched more and more by our government. I mean, honestly, red light cameras? Phone line snooping without warrants? The government even tells you what jobs you can/can’t have based on your race (I may be Caucasian, but any other color and you are automatically working a different position).
[/rant]
October 31, 2007 at 10:07 pm
If the author wants potassium carbonate, I suggest checking on eBay. About $20 delivered for 3 pounds (under $3/pound before shipping costs are figured in).
As a trained chemist, chemistry sets today are pretty wimpy, I agree.
October 31, 2007 at 10:13 pm
And someone asked for a cite that boiling flasks are illegal as per Texas DPS, section 481.002:
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/hs.006.00.000481.00.htm
(53) “Chemical laboratory apparatus” means any item of equipment designed, made, or adapted to manufacture a controlled substance or a controlled substance analogue, including:
(A) a condenser;
(B) a distilling apparatus;
(C) a vacuum drier;
(D) a three-neck or distilling flask;
(E) a tableting machine;
(F) an encapsulating machine;
(G) a filter, Buchner, or separatory funnel;
(H) an Erlenmeyer, two-neck, or single-neck
flask;
(I) a round-bottom, Florence, thermometer, or filtering flask;
(J) a Soxhlet extractor;
(K) a transformer;
(L) a flask heater;
(M) a heating mantel; or
(N) an adaptor tube.
I don’t believe it specifically mentions “boiling flask,” but that’s a vague description for a chemist. Erlenmeyer flasks are regulated, along with other types of glassware. It’s ridiculous.
October 31, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Oliver Sacks addressed this issue in “Uncle Tungsten: Memories of a Chemical Boyhood”
October 31, 2007 at 10:22 pm
It’s good for us that the US is on a downward slide into intellectual and moral mediocrity. It will give us Asian countries the chance to rise and become the centers of intellectualism, research and innovation of the future. And a whole market of thoughtless, consuming US cattle citizens to sell our products to. Land of the greed and home of the slaves.
October 31, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Chemistry sets?!??
No one wants to be a scientist these days, just the crazy Asians and Indians that are flooding the American universities.
When will the first Lawyer Set or Judge Set be available?
“Have fun, sue your friends left and right!”
Kids need to learn for the future.
October 31, 2007 at 10:43 pm
> (K) a transformer;
Oh, hell, I’m going to jail.
October 31, 2007 at 11:19 pm
““Have fun, sue your friends left and right!””
People wonder why everyone wants to be a lawyer. Mind boggling…. The USA is sue happy; friggin sick.
November 1, 2007 at 12:08 am
Rantou, not sure what your point is — if this is an allusion to the US political partys, you should realize the Dems and Republicans are both just as bad. Bush etc. have been pretty bad, but the Dems have done NOTHING to stop warrantless wiretaps and other unconstitutional actions, even now that they are in control of the House+Senate.
As for signing in for getting Tussin — yeah that’s bull. I have frankly just put a squiggle, I won’t sign an actual signature for something so dumb.
I can’t make this up — I had someone come into the surplus store I work at, collect up a good collection of bunsen burners, flasks, and tubing, then like “Ummmm.. do you sell tanks of ammonia?” Amazing. I couldn’t help rolling my eyes at them a bit when I was like “Umm, no.”
OK, back on topic.. restricting common stuff like potassium is ridiculous. Sure, someone gettings pounds and pounds would be odd.. but.. 100 grams of potassium carbonate? Ridiculous that that’d be a problem at all. The chem kits losing stuff started at least 20 years ago though — I had a chem kit as a kid, it already was missing quite a few chems I do believe. As a contrast, I later got a Chemkit from my grandparents. The little atomic energy booklet in it is a real trip.. (you can see it in the little photo on the left).. it was from the 40’s or 50’s so they were sure there’d be atomic rockets, cars, etc in due time. The experiment regarding the included Uranium ore amounted to going into a dark closet with a crude scintilation tube (tube with paper that flashes when hit with alpha particles.)
November 1, 2007 at 12:44 am
I’m 65+ and from all your blogs I feel it is my responsibility to apologize to all you, because you sound in your blogs younger, for leaving you this heap of DUNG to live with and worse, workout what we old fools refused to take a stand on. Like them Demos and Republicans, I call it the blind leading the blind.
Poor Clintus, I hope he was playing the devils advocate, because if my class in probabilities was correct there are another thousand that are siding with Clintus. It looks pretty grim.
And Cris that poor misguided Asian needs to go and study his history a little more so that he can learn who taught his people what to do with all that beautiful fireworks.
Meaning that if we are not allowed to experiment in our society there will never be an orginal idea coming from the Asian part of the world. Don’t get me wrong you’re all great little rote workers. Break away from that tedious work and then maybe your country will trump Western civilization.
To all, enjoy reading your remarks. One more thing Clintus, using your logic, or lack thereof, all us males should be arrested for attempted rape, afterall we are carrying the tool with witch to commit the act.
November 1, 2007 at 1:01 am
That Edmund Scientific chemistry set is WAY overpriced.
Did any of you people remember the Perfect brand of chemicals and scientific stuff?
I used to get the magnesium wire, the powered aluminium and iron for Thermite! The Goldschmidt process. It was educational and hot at the same time.
My favorite was nitrogen tri-iodide, Iodine crystals and Ammonia. I blew holes in many a piece of furniture as the stuff dried and someone slammed a door nearby.
Those were the days.
November 1, 2007 at 1:04 am
[…] Link […]
November 1, 2007 at 1:06 am
You couldn’t get potassium carbonate for darn sakes? That’s loony. How about washing soda? Frustrating to say the least.
I want to be able to get my son a chemistry set, if he shows any interest at all.
I had some fun with KNO3 and sugar too, when I was young.
November 1, 2007 at 1:17 am
I sincerely hope you guys vote for a sensible guy next election. It’s not just your world that is ruined by the stupid government you have (although we don’t really suffer from not being able to buy chemistry sets but it’s the rest of the crap they are doing).
November 1, 2007 at 1:35 am
The reason that boiling flasks or anything of that manner is regulated is not because of safety, it’s becuase of economics.
It’s currently illegal to distill your own alcohol; a person 18 years of age or older can brew his own beer or make his own wine. But, hard liquors are so heavily taxed and the government earns so much revenue off of it that it’s pointless not to tax. It’s for this reason that perfumes and anything with even the slightest amount of alcohol have methanol mixed in (so that no one would drink it). Even the laboratory that I used to work at had to order 100% alcohol off of a special license. It’s VERY difficult to order pure ethanol.
It has nothing to do with “safety”
November 1, 2007 at 1:53 am
[…] Link […]
November 1, 2007 at 2:53 am
Just to take another look at the Texas Controlled Substances Act:
(53) “Chemical laboratory apparatus” means any item of equipment designed, made, or adapted to manufacture a controlled substance or a controlled substance analogue, including:
Surely the discussion here has missed the part of the sentence which says “designed, made or adapted to manufacture a controlled substance…” Were I up before the beak in Texas on charges of possession of a conical flask, I’d walk on the grounds that it wasn’t specifically designed to manufacture a controlled substance.
Has anyone (who wasn’t cooking up meth) been successfully prosecuted for possession of glassware?
–Dave
November 1, 2007 at 3:32 am
My older brother had a “real” chemistry set as a kid in the 60s. One of his most cherished is memories is of my Dad yelling at him: “Dave, do you know you almost killed your mother?!!!” She had nearly passed out from the fumes from one of his experiments.
On a related note, in the 70s/80s, Edmund Scientific’s catalog was a wonderland of dangerous geek toys – the pocket sized plasma torch comes to mind. A friend of mine had a “real” laser – the thing was handheld but probably weighed 10 pounds. Great fun. Good luck finding that kind of stuff these days.
November 1, 2007 at 4:12 am
Gary, “pocket sized plasma torch”? Tell us more, google has nothing about this.
November 1, 2007 at 4:34 am
Clintus is a comic genius, starting with the awesome phony hick name of Clintus McDoughy.
November 1, 2007 at 5:07 am
Wow set for chemistry. My parents didn’t allow me to buy and I got now a Ph.D. in chemistry since sooner or later i wanted to play with a bunsen. But the most important part will be to play with children and to teach them chemist when they are still curious of science before their immagination get killed in school
November 1, 2007 at 5:14 am
Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set (The 12 Angry Men Blog)
“What do Islamofacism, meth production, tort lawyers, and homemade fireworks have in common? [..]they are all part of the seemingly inevitable process of destroying the childhood Chemistry Set”
November 1, 2007 at 5:21 am
[…] 1st, 2007 · No Comments I just HAD to share this with you – found it quite by […]
November 1, 2007 at 5:29 am
Dear Clintus McDoughy; in exactly how many home chemistry sets do You find any, even slightly radioactive nucleotides or Bacillus anthracis-spores? Sure, You´ll probably get some basic knowledge in chemistry, but that´s very far away from building dirty bombs. For a man on the street it should be and it is very difficult to find really dangerous compounds, i.e. anthrax-spores or radioactive substances.
With Your way of seeing things, all education in chemistry should be forbidden and thereby a lot of knowledge abolished. The only thing You are truly sacrifying is just the minds of potential scientists for the “good sake” of not beeing able to get proper education.
If someone really wants to build such horrifying things, the required information can be found elsewhere than in home chemistry set.
November 1, 2007 at 5:52 am
[…] 12 Angry Men laments the wussification of these old chemistry sets. No danger anymore, he says. […]
November 1, 2007 at 5:54 am
When I was a kid in England I routinely got a Lott’s Chemistry Set for Christmas, each year the next set up — they were wonderful. Now as an adult on the nostalgia trail, I tried to find such a set, but they are no longer made. I did get an old one on eBay. What I do now to stock my little lab is order through Hagenow, now called elemental Scientific. Nice catalogue available. http://www.hagenowlaboratories.com
November 1, 2007 at 6:06 am
It is a shame that the world has gone down this avenue. Which is a shame as we can no longer pick up the chemistry kits i used to get my mitts on as a kid.
But on the brighter side i guess is we’ve learned the detrimental side of some of the things we’ve been doing. Cue hippy comments about the environment, global warming and improving our understanding of science etc..
November 1, 2007 at 6:20 am
We need to stand up for our rights and the rights of our children to blow things up. Talk to your local politician and let them know how you feel. We complain that this is so ridiculous, but talking without telling the people who make these decisions is just blowing wind.
I appreciate the angry men for posting this. Awareness if extremely important, I didn’t know that this was such an issue. I never got into chemistry but I think that if I have kids they should be able to become a chemist if they want. And I think that it will become impossible if they don’t have the tools to do so.
Some of you guys talk about creating your own chemicals sure that is fine for someone who already knows what the end product is but for those who are just trying to find something to do boiling ash doesn’t sound like fun. Having the tools readily available saves a lot of them and patience.
To x711, we are almost as much to blame as you are about the state of our country. We can vote our way back to the way things were when your were growing up. I wouldn’t discredit the Asians they are forming a middle and upper class that may rival our own someday. And with leisure time comes experimentation and with that come creativity and then you have the makings of the United States of America.
November 1, 2007 at 6:43 am
Overreaction, that’s it. Poeple who really intend doing weird things won’t get disturbed by a lack of chemsets in toy stores. If 3000 people died on 9/11, how many died since because of hanguns made so easily and widely available on the US territory ? I extensively played with chemicals when I was young, with a special focus on detonating (petards, rockets, fireworks) and stinking productions 🙂 … teenagers heaven 🙂 It never made a murderer, a narco dealer or a terrorist. I strongly believe that focusing on the right things (guns control, eg) rather than making a fuss about toys would be a much more efficent – but harder – way of saving lives.
November 1, 2007 at 6:46 am
[…] for creating this microscope was to get away from boring rote memorization. On the other hand, with chemistry sets going the way of getting through airports fast, someone would probably sue for getting a bamboo […]
November 1, 2007 at 7:17 am
Christophe ,
I don’t own a gun and I know this is a different topic entirely but I think that preventing good Americans from purchasing guns is a shame just like keeping chemistry set out of the hands of good Americans is also a shame. Chemicals, guns, whatever, if there is a criminal that wants to get them then they are going to get them. I don’t think that the common man should be punished for something that someone else does. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch type of thing.
November 1, 2007 at 7:29 am
[…] sent me this link: Slashdot | Anti-Terrorism and the Death of the Chemistry Set that talks about Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set and how the war on terror has meant that chemistry sets for learning are now a thing of the past. I […]
November 1, 2007 at 7:36 am
Gun-control will not stop murder – a murderer could just as easily kill with a screw-driver, a hammer, a kitchen knife, or any of a hundred other household implements. The solution is not in restriction, it is in moral education.
Our system of separation of govt from religion has turned into ‘no religion, no matter the cost’. We are reaping what we have sown.
November 1, 2007 at 7:52 am
“imagine the torrent of litigation directed to those giving a child a set of potentially dangerous chemicals. Its a CHILD, for God’s sake. [Oh, I’m sorry, for a minute there I was waxing Democrat.]”
The Republicans are at least as guilty of the “think of the children” approach to politics as the Democrats.
Your kind of partisan drivel is what is greatly responsible for this mess in the first place.
November 1, 2007 at 7:57 am
There are a lot of factors that effect our lives. I just think that there needs to be more chemicals in the chemistry sets. Tell your congress person http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
November 1, 2007 at 8:00 am
“Do you thin the millions of victims of the 9/11 tradegy think I am joking?”
Get some perspective, please. 9/11 killed 3000 people. That’s a tragedy, but it’s not “millions of victims”. In comparison, there are hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths in the US alone each and every year.
If the response to 9/11 had been about reducing tragedy, we wouldn’t have wasted a trillion dollars or so on ineffective wars that increase the probability of future terrorist attacks, we would have spent a few hundred million dollars on tightening airport security, and the rest of the money on public health, traffic and product safety.
But the response to 9/11 was fear mongering, political opportunism, profiteering, and wounded pride.
November 1, 2007 at 8:02 am
My younger brother had a modern chemistry set with relatively harmless chemicals. One day, when I came home, there were two policemen at my house who were there to investigate an alarm. I was handcuffed to a chair in my dining room and practically interrogated about what goes on in the basement kitchen where my brother kept the set – “We found dangerous chemicals! There was a black powder!”
They didn’t let me go until a specialist came in to tell them that the “black powder” was a vial of iron filings.
True story.
November 1, 2007 at 8:17 am
Meanwhile across the pond:
Oleum saturated sulphuric acid, nitric acid and acetic anhydride (!) are sold over the counter in Belgium, there haven’t been any real problems with that as far as I know.
One kid blew a hole in his house, killing his mother, but I believe that was an organic peroxide (precursors to which are still freely available in the US)
November 1, 2007 at 8:19 am
As far as I agree with moral education part I can not agree with @Christophe on gun control.
Look Columbine, Virginia Tech and others.
Ask yourself:
How may people one can kill with household implements?
Now, try to tell everyone that guns can not be used to kill more people.
“Gun-control will not stop murder – a murderer could just as easily kill with a screw-driver, a hammer, a kitchen knife, or any of a hundred other household implements. The solution is not in restriction, it is in moral education.”
November 1, 2007 at 8:41 am
Way off topic but- All gun control does is prevent law abiding citizens from defending themselves. It does not stop criminals from accessing firearms. In the U.K. and Australia since firearms were heavily restricted gun crime rose sharply. Why wouldnt that happen in the US?
November 1, 2007 at 8:49 am
I have agree with Clintus. The trajedy of the 911 is not what we want to happen again. many times it had been proven time and time agian that the terrerists used many chemestry sets to fool the fbi. the fbi had to spend months to figure it out. if we don’t stop this things from happening, who knows what will happen when they find the chemestry sets again?
November 1, 2007 at 9:05 am
[…] Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set – An interesting casualty of the War on Drugs. Share with Others: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]
November 1, 2007 at 9:10 am
I remember (30 years ago uhhh) my father bought me a Chemistry set (in Mexico city).
it was pretty harmeless, but then one dya my father sumggled a package in the house (out of my mothers eyes..)
i had several bottles, 1kg of sulphuric acid, 1kg nitric Acid, 1kg clorhidric acid, and a few other interesting things… (he is a chemical enginner)
Then the fun began, i confess i made a few grams of notroglicerine, and when i get some mercury from a broken thermometer, i prepare some Mercury fulminate. Very amusing…
I became a chemical enginner too…
November 1, 2007 at 9:31 am
# Clintus McDoughy Says:
October 31, 2007 at 12:58 pm
If you want the terrists to be able to make some WMDs and Anthracks and DIRTY BOMBS with the radioactive chemicals then go ahead and let them buy chemistry sets. then youll learn.
Ok I am not going to read any more comments as I will just be further infuriated by the ignorance of the general populace of my blessed country.
However, I will say that if you agree with “Clintus” [sic], then you should go ahead and ban everything. I mean, if you ban chemistry sets, in fear of dirty bombs, then you need to ban geiger counters, because then people could find radioactive materials themselves. You also should consider banning cleaning supplies, fire, water, and damn near anything that can be used as a container. All glass should also be banned. The most abundant element in the universe, from which you cannot escape, Hydrogen should be banned. Basically life should be banned and in the name of freedom we should all lay down and die because by living we risk being killed.
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” -Benjamin Franklin ( source quoted from http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin )
November 1, 2007 at 9:37 am
How well I recall staining my toilet purple…I don’t know what it was about my experiments, but I always ended up with purple dye.
My friends Frank and Bennett moved on to combining Potassium Nitrate, sulphur and charcoal
and making the greatest tin foil rockets, and giant loud booms. Jetex rocket fuel, Revelle Model Kits and my Gilbert Chemistry set helped me recreate WWII action in my backyard.
There is no real point to this just happy memories of a less protected sanitized childhood
Gene
November 1, 2007 at 9:38 am
This is another result of our short-sighted government applying more controls on both its citizens and businesses. As the article implies, soon there won’t be anything left.
Recently I wanted to get some materials to make some printed circuit boards for a project. I wanted photoresist, acid etch solution, cleaner… the normal stuff. I couldn’t find it! Radio Shack used to sell it but they don’t carry photoresist anymore. I searched the web and could only buy in large quantities. I only want to make 2 small boards. Government regulation has killed yet another hobby.
November 1, 2007 at 9:43 am
I love my country and I always will. However, I am glad to be living in Europe. I may return home, when its the Land Of The Free again.
November 1, 2007 at 9:56 am
Ah yes the days of 3′ craiters in the back yard and not a remaining shread of dirt to fill them back in, walking across the Physics lab with purple smoke eminating from every footstep (Amonium tri iodide) went off two steps inside the door! Those days are gone! Today I’d be labeled a terrorist, for my early inocent experimentation. I still have all of my fngers & toes, no one got hurt, although my hearing is not what it should be!
As Gene said no real point, just memories, todays society is too protected, too many lawyers trying to justify their existence!
Don
November 1, 2007 at 10:08 am
Like I said:
I will say that if you agree with “Clintus” [sic], then you should go ahead and ban everything. I mean, if you ban chemistry sets, in fear of dirty bombs, then you need to ban geiger counters, because then people could find radioactive materials themselves. You also should consider banning cleaning supplies, fire, water, and damn near anything that can be used as a container. All glass should also be banned. The most abundant element in the universe, from which you cannot escape, Hydrogen should be banned. Basically life should be banned and in the name of freedom we should all lay down and die because by living we risk being killed.
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” -Benjamin Franklin ( source quoted from http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin )
November 1, 2007 at 10:15 am
Maybe if more people understood the scientific method we wouldn’t have so many Islamofascists to worry about in the first place.
For that matter, it might improve the government too…
November 1, 2007 at 10:20 am
[…] FBI is making it more difficult to obtain essentially harmless chemistry sets; the same kind that you probably experimented with as a child. Apparently they have become a […]
November 1, 2007 at 11:09 am
My friends and my fireworks were always better than you could buy, and never a threat to anyone!
I think it would be a better idea to ban idiots from public service! Leave them hiding in their paranoid little closits, and stop trying to protect me from me.
Don
November 1, 2007 at 11:20 am
well….there’s always diet coke 😉
November 1, 2007 at 11:24 am
You’re right, Modern Chemistry sets are crap. colour changes do not an exciting afternoon make.
I read that someone up there was very concerned about terrorists using these playsets-shut up Clintus, you’re an idiot. If you really want to blow something up you are not going to give up on account of having to fill out a few forms. Please, these guys are prepared to carry out suicide bombings-they are a very motivated group of people, they’d find a way
November 1, 2007 at 11:35 am
Mike said:
###The Republicans are at least as guilty of the “think of the children” approach to politics as the Democrats.###
Yeah, that’s true: +cough+ Drug War +cough+
November 1, 2007 at 11:36 am
Its bad when the government and media contributes to paranoia. May be the next step is to ban matches to prevent the potential damage that kids playing with matches can do ( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/us/01wildfire.html ) .
November 1, 2007 at 11:38 am
Being 60 years old, I grew up with the good chemistry sets. Yes, I made a few messes and did some risky things, but I went on to get an engineering degree with a minor in analytical chemistry. I credit my early exposure to science for my present position. This kind of “save us from ourselves” mentality just makes me sick. What if Tesla had been forbidden to play with those dangerous high voltages? The really stupid thing is that anyone with a real knowledge of chemistry can make those compounds they don’t want sold. Maybe we should start a “bathtub gin” movement to manufacture these chemicals, just to defeat their censorship. It eventually worked with prohibition, so maybe it would work again.
November 1, 2007 at 12:08 pm
[…] November 1st, 2007 at 2:08 pm (Uncategorized) This makes me sad: https://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/endangered-species-the-chemistry-set/ […]
November 1, 2007 at 12:13 pm
Clintus McDoughy:
You need to quit watching so much CNN and being brain washed. Besides, controlling chemistry sets in the US is going to have little affect on a bunch of nut cases in the Middle east getting their hands on dangerous chemicals.
November 1, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the Golden Book of Chemistry which came out in the early 1960s but was supposedly pulled off library shelves way back then. Scanned ersions can be obtained on CD.
See here:
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/05/the_golden_book_of_chemistry_e.html
November 1, 2007 at 12:25 pm
@ Clintus
http://www.wesjones.com/silverstein1.htm
I guess we’ll have to take smoke detectors off the market soon too eh? Since they contain radio active material.
November 1, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Reality check:
Islamofascism wants non Muslims to be an “endangered species.
November 1, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Obviously Clintus McDoughy is well programmed with right wing propaganda and fear mongering. Sad really.
November 1, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Maria,
Evangelical Christian Fascists want science and intelligent, free thought to be endangered species.
Maybe you should lay off the Fox News for a while.
-Jack
November 1, 2007 at 12:37 pm
I used to love my set. But I lived in a small town and getting refills for most of the items in the set were easy. The saltpeter (Potassium nitrate) was the easiest to get. Being a small town in farming country, saltpeter was sold in the farm supply store as a diuretic for farm animals. The sulfur usually had to be bought at the pharmacy. But as I got older, I used my little brother or the neighbor’s little boy to go and ask for it. Most often a small child asking to refill his chemisty set got the chemicals I needed.
I wonder if it still works?
November 1, 2007 at 12:44 pm
I’m still surprised that you get get Henley’s Formulas (http://www.amazon.com/Henleys-Formulas-Workshop-Gardner-Hiscox/dp/0517293072)
It used to be a required book at the local University. I found a copy of it in my junior high school library. It quickly became the most checked out book in school due to the formulas for making all manner of explosives and fireworks.
I’m still surprised that we never got hurt with all of the crap we made from this book.
Ahhh, the follies of youth!
November 1, 2007 at 1:02 pm
clintus = Finneus = obvious troll is obvious
x711 = racist bigot is racist
I agree with mike, fear for the children is an irrationality that knows no political party.
Cool chemistry sets are cool
November 1, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Do you think the millions of victims of the 9/11 tradegy think I am joking?I don’t think they think much about anything anymore.
November 1, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Also it was a commercial airliner that devestated the WTC, not some chemist set. Are we supposed to ban air travel now?
November 1, 2007 at 1:24 pm
It’s “Democratic”
November 1, 2007 at 1:26 pm
But let’s be realistic. I had a chemistry set, had lots of fun with it.
Jim up the street had one too, he was a couple of years older than me. He mixed up something that was hot or acidic or both and burned the blue jeans and skin off from his thigh down to his knee. Still has the scar forty years later.
Then Vince, who was the older brother of a friend of mine, mixed up something with *his* chemistry set that blew off on hand and the last three fingers of the other. He had a pincer hook prosthesis where one hand used to be, and the thumb and forefinger left on the other. Also one eye was messed up.
I found a retired chemist selling off materials when I was in high school and bought a gallon of 77% sulfuric acid, a gallon of 95% (or somewhere therabaouts) nitric acid, ether, all kinds of neat things.
I remember coming back from vacation and finding the gallon of ether was gone. The lid wasn’t on tight and it had evaporated. Lucky for me my dad had turned off the pilot on the heater when we were gone, so the the house didn’t blow to kindling.
The box with the sulfuric acid in it got jostled and what dripped out ate a hole through the rug, the pad, the floor, and a joist. Luckily I saw it before I stuck my hand in it.
I also played with explosives with my friend Dan, whose father used to be able to get us fuses, potassium chlorate, aluminum powder, potassium permanganate, all kinds of neat things. We started a fire with explosives one very, very hot, very dry California August day that we and the neighbors just were able to beat out before we burned down most of Monte Sereno.
Then Mike, a friend of mine in high school, started doing chemistry with some pool chemicals in a bucket and cooked up something that resulted in a caustic, boiling fountain that took out one eye and burned off part of his face.
I like chemicals as much as the next guy or gal, and am part of the generation that doesn’t think “chemical” is a dirty word. In fact, my generation generally holds chemists in especially high esteem for many of the “wonder drugs” we explored as youths.
But the reality is that chemistry sets are really best used with oversight by someone who actually knows some chemistry, and is probably best done in a classroom.
But I still think they should be available to those who want to buy them.
Now don’t get me started on how pathetic most classroom chemistry is these days with all the worry about liability, etc. . . .
November 1, 2007 at 1:50 pm
When I was I kid, back in the early 60’s, I had one massive chemistry set. A friend of the family owned five hobby shops and decided to discontinue stocking chemistry sets and the replacement inventory of chemicals and glassware. He gave me everything. :>) And when I finally needed replacement chemicals, I ordered them in bulk from Cenco, a chemical supply company in downtown LA.
It’s amazing that I didn’t blow myself up, but somehow I survived.
November 1, 2007 at 2:51 pm
They had a nice segment on childrens chemistry sets on Wired Science the other week.
http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/story/8-dangerous_science.html
November 1, 2007 at 6:31 pm
I never had one. Guess I missed my chance. Nuts!
November 1, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Mark wrote: <<I’m surprised no one has mentioned the Golden Book of Chemistry which came out in the early 1960s but was supposedly pulled off library shelves way back then.>>
Gaak! I had one of those books. I remember it well. I clicked through on his link and found it’s worth $2000. Arrgh! Someone got it in a garage sale.
November 1, 2007 at 7:00 pm
[…] with home made gunpowder are some of the joys of learning science that I shared with the writer of this article on the death of chemistry sets. It was the only real part of high school chemistry I […]
November 1, 2007 at 7:06 pm
[…] Part I. 2) Get back IM 2B.3 Converting Copper w/same partner. 3) Getback 2A Binder Packet. 4) Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry […]
November 1, 2007 at 8:02 pm
[…] colored flames, explosions, and filling the room with noxious fumes. Unfortunately those days are gone. What do Islamofacism, methamphetamine production, tort lawyers, and homemade fireworks have in […]
November 1, 2007 at 10:27 pm
[…] Link […]
November 1, 2007 at 11:05 pm
[…] just aren’t enough jobs. “It’s the economy, stupid.” Not that you could find a chemistry set for a kid, anyhow. We’re too busy trying to keep this stuff away from […]
November 2, 2007 at 1:45 am
Chemistry sets were my best part of childhood. Of course I also had the requisite chunk of molten glass from the Almagordo Atom Bomb Test..no kidding and right next to my bed. I must have been irreadiated for more than ten years. Where did I get that? Why, easy..in Popular Science’s classified. Nowadays, you want to see chemistry..you have to watch Mythbusters since I guess they have a license to learn. The rest of the population are lucky to be able to make baking powder volcanoes. How very sad that America with its wonderful history of inventors and scientists are being treated like ninnies. Either the U.S. starts acting like a grownup nation and stops being afraid of some tribal idiots or it will become itself become a tribe of former great thinkers and creators. Chemistry sets, telescopes, chunks of the Almagordo crater..This is what made my childhood so wonderful. My favourtie birthday was Oct 4, 1957 when I hit 16..Sputnik was launched. I wondered then why it was not our satellite up there. I guess the writing was on the wall…NOT ENOUGH CHEMISTRY SETS EVEN THEN. SO VERY SAD THAT THE US IS RUN BY THOSE WHO DO NOT TRUST AMERICANS. I oppose guns but I do not oppose learning …chemistry sets cannot make enough dangerous compounds to do more than make the neighbors complain of rotten egg smells. Without them, anything original will be coming in as an import. Not a good future prognosis, I would suggest.
November 2, 2007 at 3:11 am
[…] Link […]
November 2, 2007 at 4:18 am
Hey Clintus or should that be Cletus? I could be wrong here but I don’t think your “terrists” (known everywhere else as TERRORists) used a chemistry set to hi-jack an airplane.
November 2, 2007 at 4:33 am
YA UR ON UR WAY MR.
November 2, 2007 at 5:08 am
Well said that man. I loved chemistry when I was a kid, so much so that I did my degree in the subject. I don’t work in chemistry any more, but I do sometimes miss it. I can’t wait for my daughter to be old enough to start doing science (she’s only 1 year old atm)
Here in Britain Amazon sell this kit:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Discovery-World-Chemistry-Set-experiments/dp/B00005MMBJ
which looks like, while it doesn’t match up to the chemistry kits of old, at least does have a burner and some proper kit.
November 2, 2007 at 5:17 am
In about 1960, the arrival, strangely unannounced, of a chemistry set in our house (my father was a scientist) set me off.
I knew, from the moment of starting to use it, that I was Called to Science. Later on the same road came a Biochemistry degree at Oxford; not bad I suppose….in retirement I teach “A-level” sciences to privately, to local teenagers.
We in the UK seem to be allowed to own much more stuff, and apparatus, than it seems is the case in many US States, and I use it to wow them and get them fired up. I can email any supplier in London and he will send me as many multi-necked flasks as I want to afford!
I can’t buy perchlorates or cyanides as easily as once I could have done though – blame wicked terrorists! Perhaps the Moslem assault on the West is privately under-written by Western socialists eager to fling us back to the pre-Enlightenment Dark Age, so they can feel important and war-lordish again?
November 2, 2007 at 5:40 am
The ATF and FBI are a bunch of mindless asshole government robots. Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms!, They can’t even control their bladders. Any of this stuff you mention is readily available if you know where to get it. I just love the Feds paranoia, but it won’t help.
Seig Heil George!
November 2, 2007 at 6:07 am
I had an exciting run in with the moron ATF in 1986 when they showed up at my lab in Oakland, CA. I was working in an R&D organic chemistry lab on the NIH artificial heart program for the NHLBI. They were concerned that I had bought a 500ml bottle of Karl Fisher reagent (contains Pyridine) used for water titration in various urethane polymer materials we were researching for blood contacting surfaces in a cardiac device we were developing.
After attempting to enter a class 100 clean room without suiting up and ensuing in a loud argument, one of the dumb ass agents was standing next to me flicking a cigarette lighter near a beaker of toluene sitting on a stirring hotplate. I did the only sensible thing… I hosed these morons down with a dry chemical fire extinguisher and then kneed one of them in the nuts (hard); then put them under the lab safety shower, and physically threw both of them out of the building and dumped them in the parking lot soaking wet and covered with extinguisher powder.
They complained and tried to arrest and charge me with assault on a federal officer,I protested the attempt by shoving a Walther PPK up one’s nose, (I always carry) but the local ATF district head honcho ignored the agents protest by his own agents due to their obvious stupidity in causing a potential fire and explosion threat.
Afterwards, I refused to allow them access any longer to the building, warrant or not, and told them I would back it up with a big ass .45 automatic if they came back.
November 2, 2007 at 6:24 am
You don’t have to take shit from a cop! Just carry a bigger gun!
November 2, 2007 at 11:26 am
Haha.
Clintus is surely commenting in jest, else a fool he must be. Terrorists are not educated in the ways of weapons developement via fifty dollar chemistry sets — and anyone who would think so doesn’t know their ass from their elbow.
Imagine (as I’m sure Clintus is) for a second an underground warehouse, empty except for five rectangular tables. Around the tables sit four chairs each — and at each chair is a voracious looking spooky terrorist of the highest water. He is stern, serious and ready to give his life for Ala.
Imagine now that they have come to meet in this subterrainian “classroom” to be taught the ways of chemical weapons developement.
Five instructors approach the tables (and eager terrorist minds) and put five CHILDREN’S CHEMISTRY SETS on each table.
The learning begins — angry terrorists studying the instruction manual, using child sized spoons and tweezers, heating up miniature bunson burners and mixing HORRIFYING CHEMICALS until…BOOOOM! Someone has had a break through! Sodium Chloride and Oxygen (or whatever) have yeilded and explosion!
They hear a loud scream from above their incampment. And the service elevator decends to sublevel … they all look in fear, because they know they’ve been found out! The doors open and it’s THE TERRORIST MOTHER!!! “FOR ALA’S LOVE, YOU’VE DESTROYED MY BASEMENT! MAHAUDEY! ALADDIN! MUHAMMED! YOU’RE GROUNDED!
After their 3 week grounding the terrorists catch a plane to the middle east and with their new found, well taught, knowledge of child play things they construct a MEGA WEAPON AND LAUNCH IT RIGHT AT WASHINGTON DC, and all the people die. ALL BECAUSE OF THE CHEMISTRY SET!!! SON OF A BITCH MATEL! SON OF A BITCH PLAYSCHOOL! MOTHER FUCKER CHEMCRAFT!
See how silly that shit sounds? Let kids play. Terrorists would be terrorists with or with out the 240 piece chemistry set. Douche bag.
November 2, 2007 at 11:51 am
All Clintus jokery aside, I agree with this post. I fondly recall playing with my chemistry set, specifically rolling the mercury around in by palms because it looked and felt cool. Of course my Dad found me, yelled “What aer you doing?!?”, which caused me to drop it all. I’m pretty sure there’s still little bits of liquid mercury all over our basement floor.
Oh, and I didn’t grow up to be a terrorist. Maybe a rabblerouser, but of the non-violent nature.
November 2, 2007 at 12:57 pm
[…] 0. https://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/endangered-species-the-chemistry-set/ 1. […]
November 2, 2007 at 6:20 pm
[…] II. 2) Do IM 2C.11 Retrieving Copper, Part II w/same partner. 3) Getback 2A Binder Packet. 4) Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry […]
November 2, 2007 at 8:54 pm
[…] or a story about what scumbags Penn State fans are. You may also be woundering what happened to your childhood chemistry set, well it is banned because of meth […]
November 3, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Here is a story about a cousin of mine who was about 14 years older than me. My cousin was a single child who lived in Wichita Falls, Texas. His father was from Germany and, as old Germans used to always do, completely gave up on life after having failed just once in a business. He and his family were as poor as church mice and my family used to give my cousin a nice Christmas gift every year. One year we gave him a chemistry set. He was a very good student and was crazy about the set. He use to come home every day from school and, as well as on weekends, play with the set. He managed to build a room onto their garage for a personal chemistry lab. He eventually went on to college to get a doctorate, post doctorate, and then post post doctorate in chemistry. He was drafted somewhere along his college studies around 1950 and was placed in the Army chemical warfare research area. He was so valuable to the program that he couldn’t go anywhere without having two marines carrying 45s beside him. The last I heard of him, he was teaching at Stanford University. There was apparently a great deal of jealously toward him by the other professors (he knew far more than they did in the field) that they would never ok him to become a full professor.
This brilliant man’s career and service to society would probably never been as great if it had not been for a single chemistry set.
November 4, 2007 at 6:03 pm
[…] burn out in the garage? Or launching a multi-stage rocket over the neighborhood? Alas, it seems those days are over: What do Islamofacism, methamphetamine production, tort lawyers, and homemade fireworks have in […]
November 4, 2007 at 8:07 pm
[…] passing of the home chemistry set and teaching children experimentation (via […]
November 5, 2007 at 10:01 am
I consider myself a very successful analyticl chemist. My first encounter with chemicals was in chemistry class in tenth grade. So I believe what we really need is good science teachers and creative ways to make learning science challenging for students.
November 5, 2007 at 11:59 am
The Education Station has Thames and Kosmos chemistry sets. Granted, there isn’t any cyanide in them, but they’re still fun. If you are a kid who has never had contact with radioactive substances, you can still get that scientific thrill by doing chemistry experiments without the danger. They don’t know what they’re missing, so they don’t miss it.
November 5, 2007 at 4:02 pm
[…] and Nonrenewable Resources/Rethinking, Re-etc. 4) Watch Aluminum Extrusion Video. Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry […]
November 6, 2007 at 6:39 pm
[…] WS Key; and 2C Section Summary Key. Get corrections stamps. 4) Get 2C Binder Rubric. Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry […]
November 7, 2007 at 1:53 pm
[…] weiter. Weil Bin Laden & Co anscheinend Stammkunden bei Toys’R’us sind, werden dort auch Chemiebaukästen verboten. Klein Timmy soll außerdem ja auch bloss nicht die Abstellkammer zum Labor umfunktionieren und […]
November 7, 2007 at 7:45 pm
[…] Metal 4) Finish massing IM 2C.11 Part II filter paper and retrieved copper. 5)Fellowship: Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry […]
November 8, 2007 at 5:56 pm
[…] for catch-up and correction stamps up to 2D.1 CQ 2. 4) Take 2C Quiz. (35). 5) Fellowship: Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry experiments! And write something about it. […]
November 9, 2007 at 3:15 pm
I’ve often lamented the disappearance of the chemistry set. I had a Skil-Craft set when I was at the appropriate age, and out of nostalgia went looking for one a year or so ago. I was shocked and dismayed at what passes for a “chemistry set” these days. I had reckoned that terrorism fears and liability lawsuits have all but killed the chemistry set industry. Thank God at least Thames and Kosmos is holding on.
If you want yet another heart-breaking example of how bad things are, ask any model rocket flyer how they feel about the ATF these days.
As for “Clintus” above, we should applaud him for providing an object lesson in what happens when kids *don’t* get things like chemistry sets.
November 9, 2007 at 3:15 pm
[…] of mine about the disappearance of chemistry sets, and came to the same conclusion as the author of Endangered Species – The Chemisty Set. People’s overloaded fear of terrorists (and probably no small dose of liability lawsuits) […]
November 9, 2007 at 5:29 pm
[…] Count (already verified). 4) Do IM 2D.5 Striking it Rich with Meitner Partner. 5) Fellowship: Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry experiments! And write something about it. […]
November 11, 2007 at 5:06 am
[…] Check out Endangered Species – the chemistry set […]
November 12, 2007 at 8:19 am
Well here in the UK the demise of the chemisty set goes hand-in-hand with the demise of science subjects in schools and the knock on effect on chemisty departments in a lot of Universities, our’s survived, but a lot of others have closed.
November 13, 2007 at 5:52 pm
[…] 4) Go overDS 2D.2 on Allotropes and IM 2D.5 Striking it Rich questions. 5) Fellowship: Check Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set for a cool blog on cool old-school chemistry experiments! And write something about it. […]
November 14, 2007 at 1:24 am
The whole purpose of this effort to demonize the chemistry set by homeland security is to destroy America.
People have been using these things since forever and no one has endangered the U.S. or anyone else for that matter.
So there is no other reason for it, except to limit America’s ability to compete and educate it’s children. Also, I am sure that those in Washington for the most part don’t even know what chemistry is. They are mostly a bunch of uneducated morons that have other people think for them. They certainly never even bother to write their own speeches. That is because they cannot read or write.
It is a shame, but since you are not willing to fight for what you believe in, you deserve what you get.
– Sam
November 18, 2007 at 3:00 am
[…] is a terribly new development (I wrote about this sort of thing here and here), but it appears that anxieties about terrorists and meth-labs are sucking all the chemically goodness out of chemistry se…: Current instantiations are embarrassing. There are no chemicals except those which react at low […]
November 18, 2007 at 3:30 am
wow, well clintus, or cletus or whatever your name is. calm the F down man. learn to read and write, go back to school, then come and try to make a valid point. on the issue of making valid points, I will.
I have served in the US military for several years now, and ya know what cletus, I WANT my children to grow up in a country where they have the RIGHT to experiment, I WANT my children to stop getting dumbed down through tv AND AT SCHOOL!, I WANT my children to grow up in a country of INTELLIGENT children who are told to EXPLORE, to QUESTION, to LEARN.
I DO NOT EVER want to live in a country that prohibits experimentation and exploration and learning in the name of “SAFETY”
WE do not need people like Cletus here changing the laws of this country ANYMORE! we don’t need to strip away peopl’s freedoms in the name of safety or stamping out drugs, why? BECAUSE MY JOB IS TO PROTECT THIS COUNTRY AS A MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY, and I certainly DO NOT want the LAW MAKERS of this administration to try and live my life for me because they seem to “know better”
I say we start working on repealing the patriot act and other such nonsense!
if the current administration wants SAFETY and FREEDOM to continue, they should tip the hat a little more towards those of us who are willing to DIE to protect this great nation, and stop taking away my kids ability to learn and grow and be FREE.
November 18, 2007 at 3:32 am
and to sam, well, I would say they are a bunch of people who majored in political science or law, and never took and/or failed chemistry.
😉
November 22, 2007 at 11:23 pm
i began doing a search for a chemistry set for my son, when i found this site. you folks are dead on, you took the words right from my mouth with your comments. i to remember the metal tri-fold sets of the early 70’s and all the wild experiments. we all lived to tell our stories. i am just startled, amazed and greatful to finally learn the truth. i also recently learned about Ron Paul, our last hope for america. Do the research, then research the research, Hands down, absoutly no question Ron Paul 08′. spread the word
November 25, 2007 at 8:25 pm
[…] Knowledge is power. It is not safe to have power. You could hurt yourself or others with it. That is why we no longer give our kids the tools to learn. […]
November 27, 2007 at 1:00 pm
[…] Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set. […]
November 29, 2007 at 10:30 am
So to sort of get back on topic and satisfy my own curiosity….
If I were to try to compile a DECENT chemistry set for a really interested 12 year old who would be supervised…. What would YOU suggest for contents and sources to create one?
Cheers.
November 29, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Funny, I am going to buy my nephew a chemistry set for his 10th birthday. As I was channel-surfing last night, I came across a program segment about not only about today’s chemistry sets, but how difficult it is for TEACHERS to acquire certain chemicals for CLASSROOM experiments. One teacher made a brilliant point: He has never had a student get hurt or caused another harm during experiments. Yet he has to go through a massive amount of red-tape to get certain chemicals (we aren’t talking yellow-cake uranium) based on the “fear” that someone might get hurt. But over the years, he has seen sports injuries (esp. football) at the school significantly increase not only in number, but in severity. Who has insisted that football be banned? No one.
This whole thing makes me sick. Parents should supervise their children when doing at-home experiments, DUH. Accountability, anyone? But set manufactures, understandably, want to avoid the potential liability actions because some dumb parent wasn’t doing his/her job.
I am a lawyer (and was not a good chemistry student), but it infuriates me to see that good companies have to cease manufacturing good, educational products because some idiots might sue them for millions because the kit was “inherently dangerous.” Would the parents get slapped with a child neglect/endagerment charge if a kid was hurt? I bet not. People do NOT want to take accountability – it’s just easier to sue.
So in the end who loses? We all do. My nephew is fascinated by science, not sports. He loses because he gets some crappy no-chemical chemistry set, and his interest in chemistry is likely stymied. The number of chemistry/chemical engineering majors has decreased over the decades, yet chemical research is more important than ever. Who is going to be doing our chemical research? Well, at least we will have better football players!
Sorry for the long post, I am usually quite brief and rarely post anything. I would have much rather been a scientist or engineer (esp. civil) than a lawyer, but damnit, those classes were just too hard, so I had to settle 🙂
Three last things:
1) The 9/11 terrorists used box-cutters.
2) If possible, please let me know when the bombs made from the kiddie sets are headed to DC, I live here and would like to haul tail back to Alabama 🙂
3) If your kid says he/she wants to be a lawyer, give them an old chem set so they can blow themselves up and save themselves them the grief (plus, think of all the money you’ll get…after attorneys’ fees, of course). Seriously, most of us are decent, even somewhat human, but its the jackass fear-mongers/tort lawyers that pull us all down.
4) But I do love football 🙂
To the scientist/engineers out there, ROCK ON!
-Your attorney friend in D.C.
P.S. And I was serious, chemistry was tied as my worst grade in high school (right there with Algebra II). Interesting, is it not?
December 1, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I have blogged for you people about this on http://libertarianalliance.wordpress.com , and there have been a lot of searches and trackbacks to us. I hope you have got something out of it.
You may like to know that I now let students cut their own sodium metal (under my supervision!) and even place in on water – enough said.
December 2, 2007 at 8:06 pm
I’m reminded of a teacher who was talking about a couple of students very interested in growing plants.
It was easy to assume what kind they were taking care of, but our teacher said he didn’t care.
These boys weren’t only paying attention, they had found something that got them INTERESTED IN LEARNING.
I seriously doubt if those boys grew up and caused everyone they knew to become potheads, but they did become interested in learning something.
In my experience, gaining knowledge in one area usually leads to interest in other areas.
The more we learn, the more we want to know, and each individual will follow a path of their own choosing.
By the way, I fell out of a tree and broke my arm as a child.
For some reason, nobody suggested it be cut down and the owner of the house was not sued.
Common sense was more common then.
December 2, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Potassium Carbonate?
Um, Elemental Scientific anyone?
Just a suggestion.
December 17, 2007 at 10:28 am
[…] too long ago I wrote about the Chemistry Set as an endangered species. This seemed to hit a resonant chord among the readers of the blog with a notable exception [You […]
December 28, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Yeah I do have my dad’s old skilcraft chemistry(1970’s), but most of the chemicals were gone. So we looked on the internet and we found nothing. This is really disapointing as I really wanted get started in chemistry. I think having a chemistry set with GLASS and real CHEMICALS would really be a good thing for some company to make. People need to stop being so “un-fun” and realize that us kids do like chemistry. By making such “safe” kits, it really destroys the ideas of becoming scientists.
December 29, 2007 at 4:56 am
I agree that chemistry sets today are decidedly “wimpy”. Such reflects of course the wimpy nature of Western Civilization in general- especially the United States. The country that put men on the Moon in 1969 should have put a man on Mars by now, or at least should have returned to the Moon. So it’s no wonder the risk-averse society that is America today can’t produce a decent chemistry set for its young people.
December 29, 2007 at 11:29 am
I have to agree with Leigh. “Toy” companies are to worried that they will get sued, so they end up making “no good”, no chemical, no glass chemistry sets. He is right when he says that many kids get injured in sports, but almost no-one in hurt in a chemistry class. I also am not one for sports, yet I am really interested in science classes (I want to be an astronomer). Parents need to step up and watch what their children are doing and help them. I recommend just buying some chemicals and making your own chemistry set from someplace like home scientific. Thats what we ended up doing. They have a good selection of glass beakers, test tubes, flasks, and a really nice selection of chemicals. Hope this helps in making a chemistry set.
December 30, 2007 at 10:02 pm
THANK YOU
January 2, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Americans? Who cares? There were some great chemistry sets in the UK, and a lot of neat components available in Brazil. A great portion of US science and technology is actually being done by foreigners (principally Indian and Chinese) anyway; when they go back home, you’re out of luck (and they are starting to go back home). Available guns? Stupid idea, particularly mixed with a lethal bullying culture in schools based on overemphasis of sports and elites. On chemistry sets, though, one basic principle is “let em have em”. Worse chemical combinations are easy to find (ammonia and iodine; bleach; caustic soda; fertilizer, etc.) Limiting availability for experimentation merely leads to creative solutions (bad pun, I know). Guns, however….stupid idea, and proven stupid all around. Global statistics do not lie. You vote for free access to guns and you might as well shoot your kids. And the rest of the world will consider it thus.
January 16, 2008 at 10:08 pm
I agree that the chemistry set/ high school chemistry class situation is awful. The program on chemistry sets was on WIRED SCIENCE and can be found at the WIRED site and is at the UNITED NUCLEAR site. But, I endeavored to make my way through the morass and I think I have been pretty successful.
The Thames and Kosmos company actually make some decent chemistry sets. They are more expensive than all other sets, but they are also many times better than the cheaper sets. The link above is to the C3000 set, which is their top of the line. It is expensive, but you get a ton of stuff. I just bought my son the C1000 for about $70.00 and we are having a blast with it. The book is not a good as it could be–and it’s a little twitchey with the safety warnings–but it’s still not bad.
In response to an email I sent to all of my science friends, I also got a great old Porter ChemCraft set from one of them who bought it at a yard sale. It’s a beauty and when my son is a little older, we’ll dig into it.
There are many supply companies out there on the net who will sell you small amounts of chemicals with no problem. I have also been able to buy labware from them. eBay also has lots of stuff, both used and new. You just need to be diligent.
I have bought used chemistry books from eBay and Amazon that are great (and some not so great, but you gotta take your chances). I have some Mr. Wizard books that are wonderful. (Man, I loved that show!) I even downloaded a pdf of The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments, which is a wonderful, if somewhat dangerous, text from the sixties.
My son and I are having a great time together and he is very excited about science. A little digging on line, some requests of friends, some poking around old libraries and I’ve been able to make this work. It’s not like the old days, which is too bad, but it’s not impossible to put together a decent science experience for you and your kid.
January 20, 2008 at 3:01 am
Considering how many kids are debilitated or killed playing a sport (probably way more than were ever hurt by chemistry sets), maybe football equipment should be outlawed, too.
February 19, 2008 at 1:55 am
Dear Paul, I disagree with you if football equipment should be outlawed. Not all sport are danger to kid at all.
March 5, 2008 at 4:01 am
[…] 1 November 2007 A rant on liability, the war on some drugs and the death of the childhood chemistry set. A possible starting point for rehabilitation […]
April 2, 2008 at 4:46 pm
[…] or electronics lab sets. Today due to both litigation and fears of terrorism (yeah seriously) chemistry sets are becoming an endangered species. The ones which are still around are so badly limited by fears and regulations there’s almost […]
April 4, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Its called freedom. We went from banning chemistry sets to banning guns to banning football, all on this blog. I know why don’t we all just ban things we don’t like in our own lives and stop trying to control each others. Quotes like “protect ourselves from ourselves” are you serious? I feel a great loss in my life because of thoughts such as that. Truth be know I think we are all at fault, whether we have just become that lazy that will no longer stand up for our beliefs or we would just rather take a nap than pay attention to our children. Hence take away anything that might hurt them lest we feel guilty for not doing our jobs! As for Clintus I am sure I saw you at Home Depot the other day. Remember I asked for 36″ x 72″ mini blinds and the salesperson said we have 36″ x 64″ and that all I had to do was remove the slats for the extra length. I hope that was you chuckling and walking away…if you were the salesperson may God help us all.
April 4, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Dues, Quaeso. Fac me bene viverepaucas proximas horas!
April 30, 2008 at 9:03 pm
I try to acquire simple distilled water, and they only sell THAT to research institutes. I have grown to become slightly anti-american (not to people). It really gets on my nerves. There have been so few actual terrorist attacks using common chemicals, or chemistry set chemicals. WHy the heck is the government so crazy? Is it just Bush? Is it paranoia? I really don’t like America. Save communism! We’ll collapse anyways, but back to the subject. I try to acquire nitric acid (I am not a terrorist) for an experiment. Not one supplier sells it. If it were this bad, why don’t they make fire, candles, gasoline, rubbing alcohol, matches, lighters, instant-freeze packs, table salt, the sea, water, anything containing bacteria, anyone sick, Sharpie markers, etc illegal?! The USA sickens me.
April 30, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Without chemistry sets, and proper education (you won’t believe the idiots I see in school every day), the interest in math and science will go down, and our levels of scientists, and intelligent people will go down. Instead, we’ll get a sharp increase in McDonald’s workers.
May 20, 2008 at 5:18 am
I couldn’t read all 164 comments above, but my question would be: what will come along to replace the chemistry set in order to help keep kids interested in science? CSI-Miami?
May 21, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Yesterday marked the third day in a…
June 9, 2008 at 6:19 am
[…] https://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/endangered-species-the-chemistry-set/ […]
June 9, 2008 at 12:12 pm
This is truly sad, but fortunately Makers are coming to the rescue on this. I never had a chemistry set, but I did make nitroglycerin once with some chemicals I obtained. I’ve seen several comments by others, and I’m a bit skeptical of some comments here. Nitroglycerin is extremely difficult to make without blowing yourself up, because if the reaction gets too hot it will explode in the making of it. This has happened to highly intelligent college level students. Not just any kid can successfully make this stuff. Rocket fuel and fireworks chemicals are also difficult to make, stir them too fast while making them and BOOM, too slow they harden up and then if you try to force them , again maybe BOOM.
Still, sets should be available. Not just for kids but for inventors too, who is going to come up the the next great battery/fuel cell? Not some local genius working in is garage, if things continue on like this.
As for gun control, the problem with that is once you start banning one thing you have to ban everything eventually. Lastly, if you really want to be fair in 2004 >16,000 people were killed (all weapons), and annually about 106,000 people die from properly prescribed drugs, so in reality it’s not so much guns killing people as it is chemists.
[ducks and runs]
Of course, some of those 106,000 would probably have died without those drugs too. Sure these, school shootings are horrible, but who is ultimately responsible? This is who:
1) parents who don’t properly secure their guns and keep a weather-eye out on their children’s well-being,
2) over-stretched, underpaid, over-worked school counselors who don’t recognize at-risk students,
3) lack of warning signals to the proper people (that is a person buying several high-powered guns simultaneously who have never owned guns before should alert someone that this person may be a bit over the edge – the Virginia Tech shooter bought three or four guns on the internet just prior to the shooting). Of course, if we outlaw guns, it won’t stop people like the VT shooter, they’ll just buy them on the street. You can’t stop these kinds of crimes, but they can be reduced by responsible social leadership. You can’t successfully ban anything. People who want to get something banned will find a way. The ban/war on drugs should prove that, It’s been going on for ~100 years now, and the drug dealers are winning still.
June 16, 2008 at 3:35 am
Some of these chemicals in these chemistry sets were very dangerous—–and some 40-60 years later the victims of these dangerous chemical experments are paying for their childhood play for them with cancer. Specifically uranium and radium salts that were included with them and a spinthrascope in which one loaded with the salts and then looked into it to see flashes like micro-explosions going off.
My parents who barely got out of high school(my father was a high school drop out) and did not understand such dangers gave me such a chemistry set— well intending that I learn chemistry and if I recall the mfg was located in Hagerstown, Md. This was fine but the problem was that no warnings about the dangers involved were included and as far as learning chemistry—not much was to be learned other than how to cook up stuff—no molecular equations et al so very little chemistry, if any, was learned. My parents knew nothing about chemistry and did not know that radium salts caused the death of Marie Curie and the pitchblend included was the same material that she had worked with. I am grateful for my education and was the first in my family to attend a University. However, neither I nor anyone else within reach knew at that time just how dangerous these chemicals were.
Like many curious adn foolhardy teens; I also made explosives and then set them off—-nothing more than gunpowder. But a friend whose father was a lab tech was able to supply us with picric acid and other such chemicals that we really could do alot of damage with had we had the ambition to do so not only to ourselves but to others but blowing up things a la terrorism was not our objective. There are times now that I wonder how we ever made it through our teen years without being blown to bits—and how stupid we were in cooking up these substances after taking some real formal chemistry courses in High School and University learning the real dangers these things posed—especially since Charlie loved making nitroglycerin—-I vividly recall the glycerin growing very hot when he poured in the nitric acid. Yes I remember also releasing chlorine gas when I mixed chlorox and ammonia together and the flask grew so hot from the exothermic reaction that it heated up the glass and burned my hand when I tried to pick it up. To make it more exciting I even added some sodium hydroxide (red devil lye).
On the more constructive side of things I also learned how to make soap and perfumes with my set but still little chemistry was learned and that is regretable. We also made rocket fuel and use it to power the rockets we made—that was big time stuff in 1958 when Sputnik set off a panic about the low levels of math and science education compared to Russians—something that has not abated since then.
I am all for science and learning chemistry but if the intent of these chemistry sets is to teach chemistry and not cooking or playing around–then some things need to be removed from these sets to make them safer.
Full instruction and analytical chemistry needs to be emphasized—along with the math that makes chemistry a science and not an art.
As far as drugs are concerned; yes some idiots will try to make illegal stuff with their chemicals but they do not require chemistry sets to do so –they can do it from things that they legally get at their local grocery store. I am against their doing so as they ruin it for backyard inventors and others who are doing legitimate inquiries that could end up making them the next Edison or Bill Gates.
June 21, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Can I add something?
Islamofascism is a controversial neologism suggesting an association of the ideological or operational characteristics of certain Islamist movements from the late 20th century on, with European fascist movements of the early 20th century, neofascist movements, or totalitarianism. Critics of the term argue that associating the religion of Islam with fascism is offensive, inaccurate, and often bigoted.
June 23, 2008 at 9:00 am
Islamofascism is a controversial neologism suggesting an association of the ideological or operational characteristics of certain Islamist movements from the late 20th century on, with European fascist movements of the early 20th century, neofascist movements, or totalitarianism. Critics of the term argue that associating the religion of Islam with fascism is offensive, inaccurate, and often bigoted.
The Islamic religion as a religion is fine. As a political statement it leaves much to be desired. Strip out the Sharia and much of the vindictiveness and it is a fine thing. Islam is where Catholicism was in the 13th century with its Inquisition started by Ferdinand II of Aragon.
In a more general sense, natural language and common language evolve based on a perceived need. The term ‘Islamofacist’ is controversial only to those who are attempting to defend a basically indefensible position: e.g. that Islam is a pure religion isolated from the ‘operational’ directives contained in the Qur’an.
Looking at the etymology: The Mirriam-Webster dictionary defines fascist as:
1: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
The Sharia directives and suppression of non-Islamic practitioners found in the Qur’an, I think would constitute severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. Hmm. Seems applicable.
So that fact that certain groups who engage in ritual beheadings, bombing, and mutilation of civilians (including other Muslims which is proscribed in the Q’uran), espouse Islam and see it as a vehicle to power, makes it inevitable that a language referent would evolve to describe them.
After all, it’s much easier to say ‘Islamofascist’ and convey the essential character of the subject than to denote that subject as ‘those murderous, cowardly, women abusing assholes hiding under the skirts of Islam for their own power seeking, world dominating purposes.”
Have a nice day.
July 22, 2008 at 10:52 am
sKZgGc gfb07yvt9d6t94wbtx63bgq7d
August 6, 2008 at 1:55 pm
I cry for our future scientists and engineers. However, it is possible to obtain chemistry sets in other countries. There are other countries that are not as policed as the United States. In these countries you can obtain the necessary books and chemicals to have your wildest childhood dreams come true!
China is a wonderful source. The selection of kits is enormous and the content is far and wide more extensive than that found in the US.
The former Soviet Union has a large number of kits. THey are very elaborate and are even to be considered college and university level.
Please no knee jerk reactions to this post. If you want to have your child learn to be a chemist, you have to go to another country to acquire the equipment.
August 6, 2008 at 2:07 pm
http://staff.science.uva.nl/~joling/microschaal/info.html
August 6, 2008 at 2:09 pm
USA based search engines are restricted and block many excellent chemistry sets available. You need to utilize a foreign based search engine.
http://www.baidu.com/
August 16, 2008 at 6:38 pm
[…] to science curiosity in children – as an example, the near-death of the humble chemistry set: Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set The 12 Angry Men Blog. Similar for electronics or any number of other things. I’m not sure I see what can stop the ship […]
August 19, 2008 at 3:25 am
[…] hand of his local authority to discuss the reasons why the USA is failing in Maths and Science. The death of the chemistry set and the fate of poor Mr Deeb are symptomatic of the repressive effects of our growing obsession […]
September 1, 2008 at 3:56 pm
[…] Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set […]
September 15, 2008 at 8:23 am
[…] trawling the net for a bit of info on this, and then leading to the decline of the chemistry set, I came across this Wired video that makes for an interesting […]
November 20, 2008 at 8:49 am
Cool post, maybe you dream fof writters?
___________________________________
Sry, hehe))
November 20, 2008 at 9:39 am
There has come winter 😦
It became cold and cloudy!
Mood very bad 😦
Depression Begins
November 21, 2008 at 7:48 pm
I am sure in the late 70’s my parents spent no more than 30 bucks for one,whats up with the 200 price tag now?
December 3, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Make your pharmacy dollar go further.
December 4, 2008 at 3:13 pm
You forgot potassium chlorate and powdered magnesium. I almost blinded myself with when I lit that mixture. Any acid mixed with potassium chlorate is guaranteed to explode within ten seconds, shattering the test tube and spraying the experimenter with broken glass.
But I survived intact and learned a lot about chemistry. I aced high school and college chem without cracking a book, due in large part to what I taught myself in my “harzardous” basement lab.
December 29, 2008 at 10:27 pm
[…] at home has suffered a few setbacks. They took the fun stuff out of chemistry kits. And even if you do find a decent kit, you might be arrested for making drugs and/or explosives […]
December 30, 2008 at 3:36 am
and atlas shrugged…
April 14, 2009 at 11:26 pm
[…] 1st, 2007 | Uncategorized What do Islamofacism, methamphetamine production, tort lawyers, and homemade fireworks have in […]
May 13, 2009 at 4:13 am
[…] Endangered Species – The Chemistry Set « The 12 Angry Men Blog […]
May 31, 2009 at 4:52 pm
[…] Endangered Species The Chemistry Set The 12 Angry Men Blog Posted by root 27 minutes ago (https://12angrymen.wordpress.com) It a sad comment our over reactive society to deprive children of a childhood it not that difficult to burn hardwood to ash make the ash into lye i used to get the magnesium wire the powered aluminium and iron for thermite we need to stand up for our righ Discuss | Bury | News | Endangered Species The Chemistry Set The 12 Angry Men Blog […]
June 16, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Amazing. All the bullshit about terrorists getting hold of chemistry sets to build homemade bombs is fascinating.
If we’re going to outlaw dangerous toys, lets start with gun control. I don’t see why hunting should be condoned – killing of any life form for sport is maniacal and disgusting.
Let’s bring back the chemistry sets of yesterday, and get rid of the guns and ammunition of today. If a terrorist is going to kill us with ammunition, at least let him home make it, rather than walk into a damned gun shop where he can buy it straight off the rack.
It’s surprising how idiotic and short-sighted some people really are.
July 3, 2009 at 12:43 am
Thank for information
July 3, 2009 at 7:19 am
Great… another site I can bookmark and never come back to
July 9, 2009 at 7:12 pm
[…] Twelve Angry Men Blog […]
August 6, 2009 at 4:01 pm
While I agree with you in spirit, the fact that you made this a Repo vs. Demo, liberal vs. conservative issue shows that you are really part of the repressive problem, not part of the free solution, to use a chemical term. YOU are the issue. It’s people like YOU who brought this about. Now go off somewhere and hide in shame.
-drl
September 5, 2009 at 5:20 am
Great article. I was however disappointed by the commenters trying to twist this into a pro-gu control argument. Just stop banning things for our “safety” if as used by a sensible and responsible person does not result in harm. We need to stop constructing our society around the stupidest and evilest people in it
September 8, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Hello,
Very well written article, keep up the good writing, thanks Jerry.
November 12, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Reading all this brought some great memories back..I used my dad’s garden shed as a makeshift lab as a 13 to 14 year old and the local kids,especially working class types, thought it was a really geeky thing to do but I didn’t care, I was passionate about it. It was seen as a bit eccentric back in the early 1970’s by some, but now that we live in such a nasty, paranoid and litigious society here in the U.K., an intellectual kid with a home laboratory would likely be gossiped about and branded a future child abuser because he’s into science and not celebrities.How on earth did we get into this state of affairs? And how different it was when I was a kid..a few boys even then were only interested in stinks and bangs if they owned a chemistry set but no harm done as I remember.Generally, though, the vast majority of kids at school hated chemistry with a passion and the tiny, tiny minority who didn’t were seen as geeky but otherwise ok. Having seen today’s chemistry sets, I agree they have become very sanitized ghosts of what they used to be, which is a sad but glaring sign of the times….even so, I’m surprised that the toy makers have bothered to market any kind of chemistry set these days….wouldn’t a Jeremy Kyle ‘guess the child’s father’ set be more appropriate in these days of dumbing down and sheer paranoia of everything/everybody? I clearly remember chemicals such as sulphur and magnesium ribbon in my Thomas Salter set back then. But now? Shock, horror, a child may get hurt/contract cancer/burn the house down and the toy manufacturer sued….that is why kids now will never see the chemistry sets of those days.The paranoia and decline appeared around the mid-eighties until we ended up with sets which are more ‘art’ than science. And besides, computer games and chucking bricks at firemen are much more fun than wimpy,square and geeky chemistry sets…well, thats how it looks to us oldies.
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I have one of those old Chemistry sets. I have a consignment shop in Maryland. This one is a Skilcraft Chemistry Lab 1972 – metal storage cabinet, and all but one of the chemical bottles are still inside. One of them is empty, but the other 14 still have something inside them. It has a scale, 2 pyrex test tubes with a metal stand, an alcohol lamp, and about 1/2 dozen other small items. Comes with the instruction manual also. What do I do with this set? How should I price it? Anyone interested??
August 18, 2010 at 8:54 am
I’ve been thinking along those same lines. I remember the time when kids could have a nice scientific lab in their backyard club house. I used to love to create chemistry magic with such things as ferric ammonia sulfate and sodium ferrocyanide. Phenothalene solution could create a beautiful red in the presence of a base. If you get a chance, check out my blog on the nostalgia of owning Gilbert sets.
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First of all I have never heard of anybody getting hurt seriously with a chemistry set.
I had a cheaper version and enjoyed it very much.However I know that there are documented cases where baseball batts were used to kill people–Therefore the makers of baseball bats should be sued and laws passed to ban the game as it encourages numbskullism- a state where one knows little in the sciences and contributes nothing to the greater good.
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Chemistry sets these days are a complete joke. There is nothing in them to stimulate an interest in the subject.
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I have one suggestion on buying the old sets. It’s a good idea to replace the chemicals if you want good results with your experiments. I found that after 40 or 50 years those old Gilbert bottles rust out on the lids and the chemicals lose their potency. That tends to give you disappointing experiment results. I’ve got a blog I’m trying to build about Gilbert Chemistry sets. It’s not very big yet, but has some neat pictures. Please visit and comment.
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I fucking hate the stupid anti-science and anti-common sense government here in the USA. What a bunch of moronic losers. In fucking Texas you can’t even buy an Erlenmeyer flask without a license and agreeing to have your home inspected by some shit-eating cowboy. Please Texas, fuck off and make yourself into the Republic of Dumbassery and leave the rest of us alone. Same for all you other stupid fucking states that think an old-fashioned chemistry set is some kind of terrorist plot or a drug-making kit. You stupid dumbasses, why not sell one of your unregistered firearms you got at the local redneck gunshow and get a fucking science book, you pathetic pieces of steer dung.
August 27, 2018 at 7:57 pm
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Endangered Species
October 1, 2018 at 9:01 am
[…] 12 Angry Men: “Endangered Species – the Chemistry Set […]
October 9, 2018 at 3:40 pm
[…] has been drastically curtailed – some would say, beyond the point of all reason. For example, in Texas you cannot purchase a conical ('Erlenmeyer') flask without a license, in case you might use if for making drugs or explosives for terrorist purposes. Nevertheless, […]
October 22, 2018 at 3:20 am
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