In what appears to be continuing series in credit card malfeasance, I would like to preface by saying that it applies to one issuing bank/card marketing company and not necessarily to all such entities. However; card marketing companies are like lemmings — where one goes, they all follow, so I wouldn’t be surprised that what I describe here could be happening elsewhere.
The story starts in the typical manner: an offer letter shows up in your mailbox for a credit card. It may have a low teaser rate or may be an affinity card with your favorite sports symbol on it (“The Chief”). You decide that you will send it in. It says your rate may be “as low as” 3%. “As low as” means that if you pay all your bills in gold boullion, pay them before they are due, and add on every enhancement offered, you get the 3%, otherwise you pay the 24% like everyone else. What happens is that to generate a marketing list, card marketers go out to the credit bureaus with a set of criteria (say FICOs between 650 and 680) and get a list of names and addresses—the “pre-pull”. They make the offer and for those who return the business reply envelope, they do a post-pull and then give you the rate that the credit risk model says you deserve, taking into account allowances for things like the current interest rate margin (profit).
Now typically, (here is the cross-sell again), these offers for a credit card come packaged with a lot of enhancements like a) lost and stolen card protection, b) travel rewards, c) extended warranties, or d) discounts. These may be via opt-in/out boxes or actually packaged together. So when the application is sent in, you may be signing up for “enhancement products” on the card if you don’t read VERY carefully.
A recent trend I’ve noticed is for credit cards to be offered at a checkout counter. Now this is actually a good marketing strategy — using your existing relationships with a customer. This shift is occurring as marketing professionals scour for new ways to reach you. Five years ago, the direct mail response rate was 1.3%. The last time I looked it was .04%. Since it costs postage, printing, processing charges, etc. to send an offer, the CPA or cost per booked account is is getting larger and larger. If you are at a checkout counter at a store and the clerk says something like “Do you know you can get a 10% discount if you use The “Store Branded” Master Card —would you like one?” — well, that is pretty enticing.
So you apply for the credit card. This usually takes the form of a “take-one” application in industry parlance. In the particular case in mind, you fill out the application form, including your SSN, and hand it to the checkout or customer service person who enters the data into “The Program”. The application sails away to the issuing bank, who owns The Program, and they run the post-pull and model and presto, you have a credit card, often within minutes. The stores even have a card-not-present payment option to allow you to use it right away. The CPA for this type of offer is much lower than shotgunning direct mail out to the general population, which happens to own an average of five credit cards anyway. And even with the 10% discount giveaway added, the CPA is less than traditional direct mail marketing methods.
What about those enhancement products? On the form I obtained, in order to sign-up for an enhancement, you have to either sign a blank that says you want the product, or sign that you decline the product. This set of required signatures is, however, on another panel of the application tri-fold. I asked what happens if you ignore the blanks and turn in the application without signing either accept or decline? “The Program” won’t accept the application without one or another. [Note the positive reinforcement of the cross-sell opportunity rather than default to a no-sell.]
This, I presume, is meant to be a closed loop control but the customer service people are always busy and are under pressure to complete the application processing as quickly as possible. I asked if they ever just checked a box to get on with it —“No, That would be cheating” was the response. A particular person, of whom I have previously referred to in conjunction with credit cards, applied for a card in this manner, not signing up for the enhancement. She left both signature spaces blank. Strangely, the application, which was returned to her after the data entry procedure, had some handwriting which differed from hers. An accident?
I asked the checkout clerk, a young guy, if they received incentives for pushing credit cards. Yes they did. I asked whether they got cash incentives or the manager-will-beat-you less type. [My daughter , working in a department store as a clerk, was continually subjected to harassment for not meeting her ‘quota’ of store cards. She quit.] He laughed and said more like the second rather than the first.
At this point let me state that this is completely legal. The best marketing builds on existing relationships. The only caveat is that perhaps it’s not that good of an idea to have customer service clerks enter data under pressure and under incentives to meet application quotas. And further; it’s not a good idea to take applications and transfer data to their terminal where the customer really can’t view what is being requested in their name. Card processors do this by optical character recognition at high rates (and with low error rates) and leave out the human component. I also wonder where that application goes, the one with your personal data and SSN on it, after the data is entered into The Program.
That is how instant credit can work. Here is how typical direct mail applications work. The application arrives at card processing entity where the application is scanned, post-pulls are done, analysis run and card is priced (interest rate set). Plastic is generated and shipped to customer with sticky label that says “To activate card, call number 800-613-4395”. So far so good. Now the scam……
Let’s suppose that the customer, in an attack of buyer remorse, upon receiving his plastic decides that he doesn’t need another card, so he just cuts up the card. That is to say, the card is never activated.
20 days later he get a statement with a $29.00 or some such charge against his card. It might be for an extended warranty plan or a card protection plan, but the customer knows that he cut up and never activated the card. He disregards the statement. (Most likely he never opens it because he knows he doesn’t have that card.) After 30 days, the card gets hit with interest (e.g. 24%) plus $29 late fee. Balance is now $58.58. Second month passes — another interest and late fee. Balance is now $88.75. Account is deliquent 60 days, letter is sent. “Why is is this bank bothering me” — into the garbage. Another month, another late fee. Balance now $119.53, and so forth until you get a phone call. “I don’t owe you anything”. Suppose the card holder was sub-prime and they were given a credit line of $500. After a while, the accumulated balance exceeds the credit limit and they get both a late fee and an over-limit fee.
In the particular case I am speaking of, customers had run up balances of $1500 or more having never activated their card. Not to mention royally screwing their credit histories at the bureaus.
A regular merchant could never post a settlement against an unactivated card as this is a principle barrier against merchant fraud. But the issuing bank, who usually also runs either an enhancement business unit, or contracts for one, OWNS the cardholder masterfile. By masking out the activation character position in the master file by means of a COBOL program,they can run the enhancement sales orders against the master file and ‘force post’ the enhancement product sale. The pretense is that this is valid and legal because the customer indicated a desire to purchase the enhancement, even though the product is an enhancement against a non-active account.
Pretty good. Enhancement products can generate the highest profit margins at the bank, and drop right to the bottom line. Now if they could only convince the FTC and the lawyers litigating aginst them in class action suits.
November 16, 2007 at 12:55 pm
[…] Read the rest of this great post here […]
November 16, 2007 at 12:56 pm
FYI: It’s not all that difficult to get off the “credit preapproved” lists and assorted other junk mail. I’ve done it and am much happier not having my mailbox filled up with offers for crappy credit cards, magazines I don’t want, etc. See:
https://www.dmachoice.org/MPS/
They charge you $1 (it was free in the past) but it’s worth it!
MPA
November 17, 2007 at 1:29 am
[…] Angry Political Optimist placed an interesting blog post on Force-Post, or Huh? I havenât even activated the card!.Here’s a brief overview:So you apply for the credit card. This usually takes the form of a “take-one” application in industry parlance. In the particular case in mind, you fill out the application form, including your SSN, and hand it to the checkout or … […]
November 20, 2007 at 7:01 pm
[…] A lovely blog postlinked from Slashdot (yes, I know, shoot me) which makes the current crop of bastards who specialise in giving obscene amounts of credit to people whose annual disposable income amounts to 2p, a button and a Twix bar (read: Lloyds TSB) look like ice cream men. To summarise: card companies go to every length to sign you (and by “you” I mean any of our Bush-ruled friends on the other side of a large trench full of water) up to all sorts of extraneous shite without your knowledge, and push store clerks to do so with promises of bonuses and such. […]
November 20, 2007 at 8:14 pm
A note to the “joe-baldwin.net” blog: both my wife and I paid our dues in US national chain retail long enough to attest that the only bonus in “bonuses and such” is in the form of less crap from the department and store managers.
November 20, 2007 at 8:14 pm
that should be illegal for a credit card company to send you a card, and still bill you when you never activate the card, cause you didn’t want it
November 20, 2007 at 8:14 pm
A note to the “joe baldwin net” blog: both my wife and I paid our dues in US national chain retail long enough to attest that the only bonus in “bonuses and such” is in the form of less crap from the department and store managers.
November 20, 2007 at 8:15 pm
A note to “joe baldwin”: both my wife and I paid our dues in US national chain retail long enough to attest that the only bonus in “bonuses and such” is in the form of less crap from the department and store managers.
November 20, 2007 at 8:17 pm
A note to “joe baldwin”: both my wife and I paid our dues in US national chain retail long enough to attest that the only bonuses are in the form of less crap from the department and store managers.
November 20, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Something like this happened to me. Here is my story. I had a credit card with First USA which got changed/merged/acquired into BankOne which further acquired by Chase. Once Bankone customers are made to register through Chase, I realized that I had a second card with a lot of late payments. I called them up and found out that the fee is the yearly fee on the card which is charged after the first year. I changed house in 2002 and during that process, some how I never got that second card (I don’t even remember if I applied for one or what exactly happened) and never activated it. So, after calling up the customer service, came to know that the accumulated fee of $150 or so is yearly subscription fee for the card + accumulated late fee! After talking to the Chase guys (they also had my old address on that card), they finally canceled the card and reversed the fee!
November 20, 2007 at 8:53 pm
That is pretty interesting. Have you heard of the following scam:
I got a call today from an AMEX partner.
They claim that I made a recent purchase which qualified for a free $25 American Express gift card. The go on to verify personal info – They tell me my name, address, phone number, card number. They then say that when I get the gift, I will receive some catalogs for patriot card benefits or liberty card benefits. They go on to explain that some soldier in Iraq will also get a free gift as a result of me receiving a free gift. Blah, Blah, Blah. 20 minutes later when caller thinks I am no longer paying attention, caller mentions a $10 monthly fee which can be kindly cancelled at any time by calling some 800 number telling them I want to cancel. WTF? I tell the people I am not interested and not to bother sending me anything. Caller keeps trying to get me to accept the free gift. I tell them I decline. Caller refuses to back down. I then tell them I am hanging up the phone and I do. So by raise of hands, who thinks I am going to get a bunch of crap mailed to me courtesy of American Express or some partner followed by a new credit card and/or a bunch of bills?
November 20, 2007 at 9:21 pm
The way the non-activated account works is this:
By applying for the card, you are agreeing for the issuing bank to create a credit account in your name under the terms given.
Not activating the card has EXACTLY ZERO effect on this account. The plastic is just a feature of a specific type of account – not activating it just means the Visa/MasterCard-owned feature of a Bank-owned account isn’t working. You still created a bank account somewhere with specific terms.
It’s not a scam, but it’s not exactly intuitive for people either. Just remember this absolute rule:
The Card Is Not The Account, And The Account Is Not The Card. Each Makes The Other Useful.
November 20, 2007 at 9:39 pm
A little known fact on those “business reply envelopes” in all the credit card offers that arrive in the mail is that if the envelope is returned (empty) it costs full first class postage + a handling fee to the recipient.
So, what you should always do is return the business reply envelopes empty (or, do as I do and stuff the envelope with everything that they send that lacks any identifying numbers myself) to the companies.
The result – the postal service gets a huge cash infusion – and the costs of making all those offers goes way way way up.
I personally find it offensive that my first class postage is at 42 cents and when you bother to look, they get to send credit card offers weighing in at several ounces for 15 cents or less.
So, send back the business reply envelopes, hit them in the pocket book.
Oh, and you may ask, what to do with the envelopes that include “customer tracking” numbers and barcodes? Well, for that, an X-Acto knife or razor blade works wonders in making the number and barcode disappear. And what about those oddly worded threats about “tampering” with the envelope. Well, the “mail tampering” statutes apply once you post (mail) the letter, not while you are still getting it ready to send.
November 20, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Between my wife and I we have over 40 credit cards, not one of which involved any of the shady tactics mentioned in this article.
As for throwing away bills from banks thinking you don’t really owe the money, that’s pretty darn dumb. Bills don’t tend to go away simply because you don’t bother responding, whether the bill is legitimate or not.
But don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate the millions of people who do pay all these assorted fees mentioned in this article, without the suckers paying billions annually in fees I wouldn’t be making thousands of dollars every year making my credit cards work for me (cash back, frequent flier miles, cash for applying, interest on the float, etc).
November 20, 2007 at 10:45 pm
To the gentleman with 40 credit cards in his family:
http://www.daveramsey.com
November 21, 2007 at 12:42 am
It’s not possible for you to tamper with your own mail. (for post #13)
November 21, 2007 at 1:15 am
If you’re too stupid to a)read ALL OF THE FINE PRINT on a CC app.
and b)throw away an urgent letter warning from the bank and/or hang up on them when they CALL you. You pretty much deserve this.
I have 10+ CCs and have never ever been called by any of them…EVER.
The real problem is that stupid people don’t know how to use credit. Most don’t really even know what it is except “free money”.
November 21, 2007 at 2:04 am
I think this charge on the account is to combat those people, like myself in the past, that would sign up for a card to get a free incentive on the spot, and then cut up the card when it came in the mail. I remember a few instances where one could recieve a free hat or coupon on the spot at the mall if you signed up to get a card. I do not know how many banks still do this. I never recieved a bill. I also only did theis when I was back in college.
November 21, 2007 at 3:39 am
This seems odd to me. If I read what you have wrote correctly, for this “scam” to work, the person who applied for the card has to do so, decide that they don’t want it after applying, and *then* ignore all their mail for the next 6 months about the card.
Sorry but anyone who persistantly ignores mail about a credit card that they knew they applied for is bound to get into strife. I don’t really see the scam element, it’s more about user error. (With the possible exception of someone who moved house, but then they could get a mail company to redirect their mail no?)
November 21, 2007 at 5:02 am
One method a can man uses is to overload the victim with lots and lots of information. Companies that use these tactics need to be put out of business before they start. As a matter of fact people should simply run bills through the roof on these cards and never pay a penny. In some states credit card companies are not welcome in the courts as a rule and their legal power to collect can be about zero. Add to that fact that many people would be better off with a bad credit rating as they would get to keep more of their own money.
November 21, 2007 at 6:51 am
“They make the offer and for those who return the business reply envelope, they do a post-pull and then …”
I always return the business reply envelope – with all the crap they sent torn up inside it. This includes the original envelope and any other junk mail I get that day that does not have a return envelope of its own.
Where does that leave me then?
November 21, 2007 at 7:03 am
I’m with commenter #15. Also read “Your Money Or Your Life.”
November 21, 2007 at 7:44 am
Post 18 said :-
“I think this charge on the account is to combat those people, like myself in the past, that would sign up for a card to get a free incentive on the spot, and then cut up the card when it came in the mail.”
I also sign up for the incentives – curently have 4 or 5 cards that way, getting cases of wine, a 50 GPB starting credit etc. It’s great.
But there is no point in cutting up the card the moment you get it. I use it to buy my next couple of tanks of petrol, pay it off fully the next month and then just store it away. This is just to keep things on an even keel – in case there was a hidden clause that they can claw back their 50 GBP or case of wine if I don’t use the card. To receive some of these gifts you do need to spend 100 GPB or whatever first.
Then they start writing letters to me begging me to use the card more. This is the funny part, it’s pathetic, and it costs them even more money. They have even rung me up to ask why I’m not using their card and I tell then I only got it for the free gift. They just cannot understand why anyone with a credit card does not run it to the full limit all the time.
Eventually they send a letter closing the account and asking me to cut the card up, which I do.
November 21, 2007 at 8:37 am
I think the take away from this (and something I’ve believed for years), is that it is *completely foolish* to sign up for a credit card you never intend to use, just to get some bullcrap 10% discount.
It’s my firm belief that such ‘discounts’ always cost you in the long run. Find a store that gives you a reasonable price, and pay the reasonable price. If the price isn’t reasonable without the ‘incentives’ to sign up for crap like credit cards, DON’T DO BUSINESS WITH THEM.
In particular, you should never sign up for credit (whether it’s a credit card, auto lone, home loan, etc), in a situation where you cannot take the time to actually read what you are signing. I think that is a big part of the reasoning behind marketing efforts like those described in this article. They know that people who are shopping do not have time to really read the fine print, they might even be under pressure from having other people waiting in line behind them, so they just sign it and get on with it.
They could practically put anything into the terms of those agreements and know that they will almost never be read until it’s too late.
Signing up for credit should be a process where you take the paperwork home and read it carefully when *you* have time and aren’t being pressured by a clerk or finance guy. Auto dealerships are especially bad about this. They like to not draw up the official paperwork for the sale of the car for you (they give you a “proposal” form instead, where the sales guy purposely scribbles all over it making tons of changes so that, later, you can’t say for sure what it says at all, and they also make sure that the proposal sheet says that it is not a legally binding document or somesuch), until they get you in a little office in the back of the dealership, and then they give you a stack of crap to sign, and try to sell you a story about they can only give you a particular price on the car and interest rate on the loan if you sign up that day.
The whole point is that, if you can get people to sign stuff *right now*, not only are they less likely to back out of the deal from considering it, but you can slip in crap that you probably couldn’t get away with otherwise.
November 21, 2007 at 9:07 am
Jeff From Ohio wrote:
###They know that people who are shopping do not have time to really read the fine print, they might even be under pressure from having other people waiting in line behind them, so they just sign it and get on with it.###
Yeah, the “we’ve got you in line, so now it’s time for the hard sell” is a common strategy that preys on the fact that a lot of people are conflict-avoidant and will really feel the pressure of the people in line behind them, thus give in and “just buy the crap already”.
I don’t do business with companies that do that, at least not more than once. If the checker can’t take no for an answer gently, well, it’ll be less gentle. I will even walk away from a transaction if the checker gets pushy enough. It took some “getting over” since that’s a social convention one isn’t supposed to violate and, if you’ve waited in line long enough, you have the sunk costs.
Sure, I am sensitive to the argument that “the checker is only doing his/her job” but, a smart sales guy realizes when he’s only pissing the customer off, and that’s why it’s worth filing a complaint with the company and never doing business with them again if it comes to that.
Best Buy comes to mind as an example, but maybe that was just the local policy where I used to shop. My stepmom (who is retired) works part time at the Barnes & Noble near her. She said that the current store manager is very ambitious and that Barnes upper management REALLY obsesses about the reader card (with good reason, maybe I’ll go over the reasons why later in a rant), so local manager puts reader cards as a high priority. Thus there’s a lot of pressure in sales meetings about how sales associates are “letting the company down”. My stepmom is mentally tough enough (having spent several years as a grade school teacher, raised two boys who were, I admit, not exactly EASY, and twenty years as a family counselor will do that) simply to ignore it, but some of the younger sales associates, especially ones with dreams of Barnes & Noble management in their heads, take it really seriously. It adds lots of stress….
November 21, 2007 at 9:16 am
Wow I checked out that daveramsey.com from poster #15 and talk about a wolf in sheeps clothing! It’s a get-out-of-debt site with flashy ads all over to buy books and crap and sign up for expensive classes. If you want to get out of debt, stop spending money on useless crap like that.
That site is like giving candy to a kid with diabetes.
November 21, 2007 at 9:53 am
“The best marketing builds on existing relationships.”
Have marketeers figured out yet that the reason none of the other approaches work is they have burnt their own bridges? People just ignore all of the crap because of the scams and the hard sell. Having the person as an existing customer means they won’t instantly blow you off as soon as you start the hard sell.
Well if things continue in such a way those companies won’t have existing relationships to build on. They will sour those too. It will take me 15 seconds to blow you off instead of 0.
I seem to remember the Golgafrinchans put all the marketeers on Ark B and blasted them off into space. Still not a bad idea, although perhaps we should leave the telephone sanitisers alone.
November 21, 2007 at 9:56 am
In reply to James:
Someone who is smart (although, granted, people who need help getting out of debt probably aren’t that smart to begin with. . . but. . . ) would just try to see if they could find a book they are interested in, like from Dave Ramsey, at their local library. If the local library doesn’t have it, they should ask the librarian if there is any kind of state-wide library search (for example, all Ohio Libraries are connected with an inter-library loan system), where they could request the book from another library, and pick it up at their own library.
Just cause someone publishes a book, doesn’t mean you have to *buy* it to read it. . .
November 21, 2007 at 10:50 am
“To the gentleman with 40 credit cards in his family: http://www.daveramsey.com”
Hahaha. Exactly. I agree!
November 21, 2007 at 11:34 am
To poster #2 – if you are in the US, you do NOT need to ever pay to be removed from the pre-approved list. It’s called Opting-Out and when you get one of those pre-approved mails flip it over and look for the little note they are required to include. It gives you the phone number to call to Opt-Out. It’s free, it may take a few weeks to completely work (based on when lists are updated) but it’s worked beautifully for both the husband and myself.
November 21, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Why send back that prepaid envelope empty? Don’t you realize that the employees that handle that envelope get hungry? That’s why I almost always stuff in a few of the pizza joint coupons that I won’t use so the nice employees of that credit card company can save a buck or two when they go to dinner.
November 21, 2007 at 6:01 pm
[…] Force-Post, or Huh? I haven’t even activated the card! In what appears to be continuing series in credit card malfeasance, I would like to preface by saying that it applies […] […]
November 22, 2007 at 10:07 am
Best solution is shoot a few credit card co. executroids.
November 25, 2007 at 9:57 pm
To BrassyDel and Poster#2:
In the US, the easiest way to quit being on the pre-approved lists is to go to the credit checking agencies (Equiserve and the lot), and have your listing marked to be left out of the pre-approval sweeps. You won’t get pre-approved offers if the credit card companies can’t access your credit info to pre-approve you on.
November 26, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Yep, I had a variant of this occur; this was like at least 10 years ago. In my case, it backfired so I ended up getting some kind of sewing kit for free (and no hit on my credit record, which is blissfully empty — I do everything cash.)
I received a junk mail, which apparently had a credit card in it, which I threw out. Like a week later, I got a phone spam “Oh, do you want to order this crap sewing kit on your new credit card?” I was like “I don’t have a credit card” “Oh, yes you do, you got one a week ago”. To which I replied “I don’t have a credit card, good luck ringing that up.” A while later, this sewing kit showed up in the mail. And a credit card bill. The card co had to eat it though; I phoned them up to point out I threw out any card they might have sent, and they were like “Oh, we have your call recorded where you ordered that kit” to which I replied “Well, good, play it back!” They were like “…umm…. ohh, never mind, your card is cancelled have a good day *click*”.
It is now illegal to send out cards like that I think.
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1) Save credit card applications for cards with one year of 0% interest, ten or so.
2) send all of them in at once, so that when each checks your credit the other nine haven’t yet shown up.
3) Open relative high-interest account, e.g. HSBC.
4) Max out all credit cards, dumping money into the account.
5) Wait eleven and a half months.
6) ???
7) Profit!
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August 4, 2008 at 12:13 am
[…] Force-Post, or Huh? I haven’t even activated the card! In what appears to be continuing series in credit card malfeasance, I would like to preface by saying that it applies […]
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