Hear the Northern thunders mutter!
Northern flags in South winds flutter!
To arms ! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Send them back your fierce defiance!
Stamp upon the accursed alliance!
To arms ! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!Advance the flag of Dixie
Hurrah! Hurrah!
For Dixie’s land we take our stand,
And live or die for Dixie!
To Arms! To Arms!
And conquer peace for Dixie
To Arms! To Arms
And conquer peace for Dixie
The Battle Flag of the Confederacy, quite possibly one of the most controversial symbols of our times. Often maligned, often praised, often misnamed (it is not, in fact, the flag of the Confederate States of America, that honor lies with the Stars and Bars), it has once again reached the national foreground thanks to the recent debates in South Carolina. During the debates Senator Obama was asked where was an appropriate place for the flag (which currently graces the front lawn of the Capitol in Columbia). He replied, “In a museum.”
I have to applaud Obama’s stance on the issue, especially since he was very clear about where he stood, but I am left wondering why my presidential favorite wants to retire the Battle Flag. His statements have generated a lot of support and controversy, and already many bloggers are using this as a chance to reexamine the old issue of what exactly the Battle Flag stands for. Unfortunately some are repeating the same baseless accusations of racism.
I’ve known many people who have flown the Battle Flag, and none of them are racist. The entire State of Mississippi has been flying it over all of their government buildings since 1894. Texas flies the Stars and Bars at every governmental building as well (along with the other five flags to have flown over Texas). The reason behind the desire to honor symbols of the Confederacy is not racism. It instead stems from a regional identity and the noble notions of state sovereignty. These feelings of regional unity are only strengthened by the poor economic situation in many Southern states, and the sense they have that they suffer in poverty while the Northern states enjoy prosperity. It is understandable as well, only one Southern state makes the top ten ranks for average personal income, and then only comes in at 9th. Meanwhile, half of the states in the lowest ten ranks of personal income are in the South. Add to this economic stagnation and decay and you have a recipe for regional resentment.
The false notion that the Battle Flag must be a racist symbol is born of the mistaken belief that the Civil War was about slavery. This bit of propaganda has been repeated ever since President Lincoln and his political allies decided to “free the slaves” (in actuality Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Confederacy, slaves in Union states such as Maryland and West Virginia remained slaves). The truth, however, is plain to anyone who wishes to delve into the history, and the proof lies in the proposed Corwin Amendment of 1861. This amendment was proposed by Congressman Thomas Corwin (R) from Ohio and stated,
No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.
Prior to his election, Lincoln had voiced his support of the amendment. Like many politicians of his time, Lincoln believed in the preservation of the Union beyond all else. When the Bill was brought before the House seven states had already formally left the Union (Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina) never the less the bill passed 133-65 and was forwarded to the Senate. In March of 1861 the Senate approved the bill 24-12. Both of these votes were from a Northern majority, seeing as most of the South had already left. Both the outgoing President, James Buchanan, and the newly elected Abraham Lincoln publicly endorsed the amendment. In fact, during Lincoln’s inaugural address he had this to say of the Corwin Amendment,
I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution–which amendment, however, I have not seen–has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied Constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.1
The amendment went on to be ratified by Ohio, Maryland, and then Illinois before the outbreak of the Civil War halted the process of adopting the new amendment. Now ask yourself, if the Civil War was really about slavery why didn’t the Corwin Amendment, already passed by the Federal Legislature and well on its way to ratification (given the three free states which had ratified it, and the 15 slave states which would as well, only four more states would have needed to ratify it), end the conflict? The Northern states had already compromised on slavery. The truth is that the Civil War was not about slavery, it just became popular to create propaganda to make it seem so because it gave the Union an image of moral superiority.
Despite these facts, I still oppose the use of the Confederate Flag and applaud Obama’s statement. Not because the flag is racist, but because flying it, especially on government property, is treason. The Confederate flag represents a nation which declared open war on the United States and attempted to do her harm. No matter what the basis of the original grievances, flying that flag now suggests a willingness to rebel against the United States of America, and suggests a certain disloyalty towards our nation. As such it is a treasonous act and one to be held in contempt. The symbols of the defeated CSA should be relegated to museums for future generations to learn about, and they should be retired from active use. Private use is a matter of free speech and should be protected, but public use by a government should be considered a high crime against our Union.
-Angry Midwesterner
1 – Full text of Lincoln’s Inaugural Address, from the University of Virginia.
The 12 Angry Men Blog 
May 1, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I applaud your skillful efforts to piss EVERYONE off. Surely your statement that this flag does not suggest racism will piss off everyone who is not pissed off by the statement that flying this flag is a statement of disloyalty to the United States. 🙂
The problem with this argument (and in fact, with almost any position that anyone holds on this issue) is that it’s impossible to say what a symbol means when sufficiently large enough groups of people attribute different meanings to that symbol. If the Governator started flying a flag with a swastika (hey, look, Godwin’s Law!) over California, he’d be run out of the state and the country on a rail. It wouldn’t matter if he claimed that the swastika symbolized happiness, love, and teddy bears, because nearly everyone else attributes a different meaning to that symbol.
However, we have no national consensus on the meaning of the Confederate Battle Flag, and its history is convoluted enough that I do not think any one interpretation can be defended as the “correct” one.
You are correct that racism and slavery were not key issues in the American Civil War, but the association between racism and the Confederate Battle Flag is still a legitimate one when you consider the private (KKK) and public (Southern states fighting against desegregation) groups that have used this flag in an overtly racist way since then. This racist meaning is not necessarily intended by any particular person who flies this flag, but you cannot deny that there are racists who have flown that flag. So, the large number of people who interpret it as a racist symbol are not completely out in left field here.
By the same token, the large number of people who see the flag as signifying nothing more than a proper balance between national and state authorities (and who see the current federal system as failing to maintain that balance) are being honest when they claim loyalty to the United States. As the country that was associated with that flag disappeared 142 years ago, the people who fly the flag now say that the flag has long since taken on a different meaning.
What is the statue of limitations on a symbol, anyway? A decade? A century? A millennium? If it’s a decade, then this symbol no longer stands for segregation. If it’s a century, then this symbol no longer stands for hostility to the United States. If it’s a millennium… Well, I’m going to get tired of hearing arguments about this between now and 2865. 😉
August 15, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Hey if flyin the flag means that we are treasonist then why are those that fly the flag are the most patriotic and supports America. Also do some more research the government at that time was going against the constitution. How about visiting the south? I have been all over the country and nowhere comes close to supporting America like the south. Did you know that out of the whole Army national guard the south deploys more than any other state out there?? So if we fly the flag says we are treasonist and wanting to do the country harm, why do we defend her so? answer that man? And please do further research because u will see that the north was tryin to tax the south for its cotton that we were selling to other countries. Read the constitution again then get back to me. thanks. Oh and this is comin from someone who is in the military so does that mean I wanna do this country harm? I dont think so since i am defending her.
September 4, 2009 at 11:54 am
The south is not a state. Bit I agree with you except for that typo. lol
October 7, 2009 at 9:41 pm
As you can see, I am also in the military and i totally disagree with what you’re saying. Seeing how I grew up in the south my whole life (alabama), i’ve seen my share of racism and how strongly the confederate is tied to it. even if that isn’t the primarty symbol of the flag, many, i repeat MANY people associate the flag wit racism. and ur statement about the south (which is not a state) deploying more national guard than any of state, if u think about it for half a second, the majority of army national guard bases are in the south, therefore having more people to deploy. this is just my 2 cents, and I personally have lived and witness what i think the confederate flag stands for, and that would be (RACISM)
June 24, 2010 at 9:52 pm
The south fought for its homes not slavery,the north fought to keep it econamy steady for the south was the major economic powerhouse for the union.
A lot of people say the flag is racist because of what they teach you in schools,well,the victor tells history,and as many would say,The North Won,when actually there really was NO winner to the civil war,everyone fought for what they believed in,plus,when you have brother killing brothers,who really wins?
The thing I don’t get is why people don’t say,”Why are you lying to our children.”They need to say,”Fix the books or don’t teach them it at all.”
August 3, 2010 at 9:36 am
Slavery wasn’t the only thing dividing the north and the south, but our constitution does say that all men are created equal. Slavery was against the constitution first.
May 24, 2012 at 11:04 am
While slavery may have played a major role for propaganda, another key factor to realize is that the confederates were fighting to defend their new country, not to take over the Northern states. They were attempting to hold off an invasion from the Union, who were trying to reassimilate them into the USA. So these “Treasonist rebels” were not, in fact, trying to destroy the USA, they were attempting to break free from a government that was going against the constitution. The cotton tax would have destroyed any hope the south had left for prosperity. If you look at the CSA’s constitution, it is almost a ver batum copy of the US Constitution. I dont see any treason or non-patriotic activity there…just a group hoping to fix something that was broken, in the most beneficial way they knew how. For decades after the losing the war, southern landowners were essentially persecuted for what they had supported, based on the false belief that the war was over slavery. Not much differently than the way protestants were during the enlightenment age, or the way Jews were during the second world war. It all comes of a misunderstanding by historians and by biased writers, living and dead, who misinterpret primary sources of the time, changing how we view things. Just to clarify my stance, I am not biased because I am from the Northern USA. I am not a racist, and I am not an anti-government schlub. Fire away!
July 17, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Its not that the south isn’t loyal, its what the flag did stand for those years ago. The United States right now is Union, The flag represented an enemy, the confederates, who rebelled against the union. Its not racist, there are no politics attached, its just a represntation, a symbol of rebellion, treason. It should not be flown on UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PROPERTY. In know by fact that if people rebel against a country the punishment is death, it is treason, and so it has been for years. Im not saying people who own the flag are rebels, or commiting treason, im just saying that flying a flag on U.S. Government property should be outlawed, no matter where it is. Its the flag that represented secession and the almost complete destruction of the Union.
December 16, 2014 at 11:51 am
The Confederacy was trying to exercise its right to buy and sell in the human grocery store. That’s it. I don’t want to offend you but it angers me that people stand up and defend such and obvious problem.
Personally I understand its part of your culture, but if I was German would I be going around saying I was proud my family were Nazi supporters. No. People who wave that flag basically are saying “I’m proud that my family owned slaves.” That sir, is wrong anyway you spin it.
September 3, 2015 at 11:39 am
I know this is old but how is it Treason? The constitution says we have a right to bear arms and form a militia. The declaration of independence says people have a right to overthrow a government who becomes too powerful or violates their rights. Isnt that what the south did?
March 7, 2010 at 6:44 pm
Many racist organizations also fly the American flag. Should we condemn the stars and stripes for that reason? Of course not. There’s many groups of differing ideologies that fly it. The same is true of any flag. Hey, this is America. If you don’t like the flag don’t fly it. The problem I have is when someone trys to tell me I can’t or shouldn’t fly it. If it offends you…thats your problem not mine. If you’re that thin skinned I doubt the Confederate battle flag is the only thing that pisses you off. You’d probably be better off bitching about world hunger, pollution or freedom. But do what you want. Just don’t infringe on my rights.
April 10, 2010 at 3:52 am
You are right..and hypocrisy is not illegal
July 19, 2010 at 4:17 pm
I agree completely. that organization of fuckheads called the kkk uses the american stars and stripes more than any other flag. i drive trucks all around the country, sea to sea border to border. im from apalachicola florida myself, and everytime i see the confederate battle flag or stars and bars in the wind, i get a nice warm feeling. ya know? sweet southern comfort. and not to be a dick or anything but this whole “eastside” “westside” thing that rappers got goin on now? what the fuck is that shit about? thats kinda like the south and the union except its more like bullshit instead of a real war
August 3, 2010 at 9:43 am
I think the problem boils down to the divisions that objects of suppossed racism cause. Those divisions sometimes incite violence and painful memories for others. A white southerner (grandfather) burned my black grandmother alive in her home. If you want to fly that flag knowing what pain has been wrought to generations who couldn’t defend themselves properly against the hatred you do that. WWJD
July 17, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I completly agree with you Tony, people should be able to fly that flag, but I dont believe it should be done on governement property. Like my recent comment upove it is a representation of rebbelion against the U.S. and what it stood for. Private use is fine, you have rights, but not on governement property.
October 3, 2012 at 4:39 pm
…you can associate the “rebel flag” with the KKK – they fly it when they march , but they also fly the american flag – what’s up with that
April 9, 2010 at 1:37 am
First of all I fly the confederate flag with pride not because I’m racist but in remembrance of my ancestors that gave their lives fighting for what they believed in the same reason people fly the american flag now, for our soldiers fighting for our country. Having said that you say people relate racism with the confederate flag bacause it is flown by racial groups like the kkk and other groups like them but all of those groups also fly the american flag just as much if not more. so then why is the american flag not considered a racial symbol sense its used by racists.
August 3, 2010 at 9:32 am
Alan, if that is the reason you fly the condederate flag, I applaud it. If my spouse wore a symbol and died under it I would hold that symbol close to my heart. I would hold that symbol close to my heart if what he fought for was something worthy and he was honorable. Hopefully your ancestors weren’t fighting for the continued oppression of another people, some of them possibly your brothers and sisters as well.
May 7, 2012 at 11:15 pm
Hi!! Like you Alan. I also fly the confederate 2 infact. 2nd National and the compermize SC confederate. I fly them with Honor. For those how gave their life’s for our nation. I do so in respect to them. Because in my home they well not be forgoten. I have heard other people talk about there heritage . Like it’s has more importents than our oun. And their rights.
And how the confederate flag offends them. Well I say what about our
rights and our heritage as blood born southern americans. Those people who want to condem our flg and what it really means. Are infact being rasists them self. Due to their oun egnirents and lack of educating them selfs. To those how mite be offended. Get over it and bitch about somthing
that will help others not our oun selfish reasons.
July 9, 2010 at 8:22 pm
obama also thinks the american flag is a threat to the world in wha t he considers the atrosaties commeted with it .the posabilaty of an nother cival war is closer than most people think .the current goverment is on a path to change citizen ship to being a subject devoid of rights
August 25, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Spelling like yours, Otto, makes me think you’re either very uneducated OR a visitor to this country not up on the language yet. I hope it’s the latter
March 7, 2011 at 11:55 am
jim C – why the need to be rude. I have my Masters degree and my spelling isn’t the greatest and I was born and raised here in the great USA.
March 8, 2011 at 11:39 pm
sounds to me that you have a problem with you current president….he is doing what he feels is right and as to this whole confederate flag issue personally im canadian i have american friends from all over america heck i have a coloured american boyfriend….we were taught in school that the confederate flag was the flag of the confederate army who were pro slavery to me the confederate flag means racism!!!!!
December 3, 2011 at 12:22 am
If obama is against our American flag, our Confederate flag, or any other flag of America’s he is obviously not fit to be the president of the USA. None of our flags were made for racism that is something that people just say because KKK has used it. The flags were made to represent were we come from and the people who have died for us and those who have risked their own lives for us. If he think our flags are a bad thing then he needs to get out of America. He seems to not be thankful to the people who fight for him or the people who have fought for his freedom. If Obama dislikes any of our flags then some thing is seriously wrong with him. Does he not realize our flags represent freedom and without freedom he wouldn’t ever been able to become our president.
July 9, 2010 at 10:33 pm
This is the United States of America right? We’re supposed to have freedoms here. One of those freedoms would be to display any freaking flag on our private property we damn please. I should be able to run a pair of bloomers up my flag pole if that’s pleases me! Wake up people! Our government is doing a good job of slicing away our freedoms without us giving them permission. You may not agree with the flag but you would only be screwing yourselves by outlawing it. One more freedom down the drain.
August 30, 2010 at 1:25 am
i agree^
March 7, 2011 at 11:58 am
True you people better wake up. The current government wants us fighting amongst ourselves so they can sneak in and take over our lives while we arn’t paying attention.
September 9, 2011 at 4:13 pm
great respone! thats What i was waiting to hear, we all have rights…
February 11, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Why did us Southerners secede?
Abraham Lincoln, January 12, 1848 speech in Congress:
“Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right — a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit.”
Union Democrat(Newspaper), Manchester, NH, February 19, 1861:
The Southern Confederacy will not employ our ships or buy our goods. What is our shipping without it? Literally nothing….It is very clear that the South gains by this process, and we lose. No—we MUST NOT “let the South go.”
New York Times March 30, 1861:
“The commercial bearing of the question has acted upon the North…We now see clearly whither we are tending, and the policy we must adopt. With us it is no longer an abstract question—one of Constitutional construction, or of the reserved or delegated powers of the State or Federal government, but of material existence and moral position both at home and abroad…We were divided and confused till our pockets were touched.”
Patrick Cleburne:
“I believe the North is about to wage a brutal and unholy war on a people who have done them no wrong. They are about to invade our peaceful homes, destroy our property, and inaugurate a servile insurrection, murder our men and dishonor our women. We propose no invasion of the North, no attack on them, and only ask to be left alone.”
Charles Dickens, English Author:
“Union means so many millions a year lost to the South; secession means the loss of the same millions to the North. The love of money is the root of this, as of many other evils. The quarrel between the North and South is, as it stands, solely a fiscal quarrel.”
“The Northern onslaught upon Southern slavery is a specious piece of humbug designed to mask their desire for the economic control of the Southern states.”
Abraham Lincoln, 1861:
“If I could free all the slaves and preserve the Union I would do that. If I could free none of the slaves and preserve the Union I would do that. If I could free some slaves and leave others in place and save the Union, I would do that also.”
Ulysses S. Grant:
“If I thought this war was to abolish slavery, I would resign my commission, and offer my sword to the other side.”
Mark Twain:
“Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.”
Confederate Major General Patrick Cleburne:
“Every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late…It means the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern schoolteachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision.”
“If this cause that is so dear to my heart is doomed to fail, then I pray heaven may let me fall with it, while my face is turned toward the enemy and my right arm battling for that which I know to be right.”
Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court on charging captured Confederate officers with treason:
“If you bring these leaders to trial it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion.”
President Jefferson Davis, CSA:
“Nothing fills me with deeper sadness than to see a Southern man apologizing for the defence we made of our inheritance, denying the great truths on which all our institutions were founded. To be crushed by superior force, to be robbed; insulted, were great misfortunes, but these could be borne while there still remained manhood to assert the truth.”
General Robert E. Lee to Governor Stockdale of Texas:
“Governor, if I had foreseen the use ‘those people’* designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand.”
*It is said that Lee always referred to the Union as “those people,” unwilling to call them “the enemy.”
Milan Kundera:
“The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory. Destroy its books, its culture, its history. Then have somebody write new books, manufacture a new culture, invent a new history. Before long the nation will begin to forget what it is and what it was.”
Roy H. Norris:
“In essence, following the end of the Civil War, the vast majority of what has been taught, from schoolbooks, literature, and even most motion pictures concerning that period has been a current day equivalent of George Orwell’s, “Nineteen Eighty-four”. First, conquer them in war and then demonize them and destroy their history, their symbols, and their spirit. Finally, control the education of their young to “own” their minds.”
Black journalist, W. Earl Douglas, Charleston News and Courier:
“The two greatest lies ever perpetrated by history are, number one, that the South instigated the war, and number two, that it was fought by the North for the purpose of freeing the slaves.”
February 11, 2011 at 4:03 pm
I assembled these quotes a few weeks ago. And when I read them I have an immense feeling of sadness and pride for my Southern forefathers. You Yankees, I don’t know what you feel, if you feel anything but your normal irritation and typical selfish, all about me, mentality you scum seem to all share in your culture. All I know about you people is what you are not.
You are not Southern. And you poor, dumb bastards don’t understand.
The South is a distinct, the most distinct, subculture in the US. We have a Culture of Honor down here. And you pricks don’t. You don’t even know what that means. And I doubt any of you could be bothered to even research that shit. Well let me start the class.
When we are nice to someone, we aren’t being insincere as you people say. This is because of your ignorance. Our culture instills in us a strict code of ethics. We are nice because in our culture that comes from the Scots-Irish heritage was when community was all you had. There was no law. No 911 to call if someone came to take your property or harm you or your family. Community was everything. We treat our women with respect and care for them as they care for us. We honor our ancestors both living and dead. We learn about life and the world at our Grandfather’s knees.
If someone insults us, our honor demands we defend ourselves, violently if need be. If you insult our women we will be twice as violent. I’m not, by nature, a violent person. But by culture, I will rip your freaking head off if you violate these things. This is more than just something skin deep.
“Three experiments examined how norms characteristic of a “culture of honor” manifest themselves in the cognitions, emotions, behaviors, and physiological reactions of southern White males. Participants were University of Michigan students who grew up in the North or South. In 3 experiments, they were insulted by a confederate who bumped into the participant and called him an “asshole.” Compared with northerners–who were relatively unaffected by the insult–southerners were (a) more likely to think their masculine reputation was threatened, (b) more upset (as shown by a rise in cortisol levels), (c) more physiologically primed for aggression (as shown by a rise in testosterone levels), (d) more cognitively primed for aggression, and (e) more likely to engage in aggressive and dominant behavior. Findings highlight the insult-aggression cycle in cultures of honor, in which insults diminish a man’s reputation and he tries to restore his status by aggressive or violent behavior.”
Simply growing up down here does not impart this culture into you. If a family from up North moves down here, has a kid, and they grow up, they don’t have it. It takes several generations for this culture to work in a family. And my family, from all sides, have been here, in the South, since the 1700’s. All of them.
My father grew up a dead poor kid in a tiny Oil-Boom town in East Texas. So poor that often he didn’t even have shoes. My mother grew up in the same tiny town, just as poor. For Christmas my mother would get an apple and an orange. My father would get nothing. He often had to go to his grandmother’s house to get food to eat.
By the time I was 10, he had a Masters Degree, and employed 1 out of every 15 people in that town. My mother also had a Masters and was a Director for a University library. We owned over 1000 acres of land. Some of it had been in my family since the 1870’s.
When I graduated High School I went to work in my dad’s business. So I got a great position right? With good pay? No. It doesn’t work that way in our culture. I was a ditch digger in the oilfields wading through oil waist deep for $5 an hour in 100 degree plus weather. I got all the jobs no one else wanted to do. And that seemed perfectly correct to me. I never once complained.
When I was 22 I joined the military. I was in the military when 9/11 happened. Immediately following the attacks recruitment in the South rose. New York where the worst attack happened? Dropped. I took part in the invasion of Afghanistan. And I was pissed. My honor had been insulted. I got out a few years later as I was expecting my first born child. I wanted to be there and raise the new members of my family.
My two closest friends in the military was a white boy from Kentucky and a Black guy from South Carolina. I’d rather fight, bleed, and die next to an honorable Southern Black man than next to some Yankee of any color. I miss him a lot. Every time I got lonely for the South I’d go talk to him to hear his deep Southern twang and typical Southern outlook on life.
Family is VERY important down here. All of them. Not like you pricks that have petty squabbles and stop talking to siblings or parents for decades or forever. We don’t do that.
Using my GI Bill I worked full time, went to school full time, and raised two beautiful little girls while they were still both in diapers. I graduated with a Bachelor’s in Information Technology. My final GPA was 3.85 on a 4.0 scale.
I’m the least educated member of my family. Parents, my brother, my aunts, uncles, cousins. They are all PHD and Master Degrees and Law degrees. I guess I’m the dunce of the family.
When Northerners either live in the South or travel the South, they on average, increase their opinion of us. When a Southerner travels through the North it drops. This is another study that has been done. If you are interested in the particulars there is a book called “Southern Culture: An Introduction” where it goes into great detail about these studies.
Two days ago my wife went grocery shopping. When she took her fully loaded cart to the check out she realized that she had not brought enough money. So she starts taking things out. A Southern man behind her said, “Wait, no don’t do that.” My wife (She’s from Nebraska originally. Not Southern but she’s a sweetheart.) said, “What do you mean?” He replied, “Let me buy it for you.” My wife stood there shocked and said, “What? No I’m not going to let you do that.” He said “It’s the least I can do.”
Some random Southern man bought my family $326 worth of food. My wife and I have a combined family income greater than 75% of all the people in this country.
Now you Yankees are confused aren’t you? You don’t know what to think. You can’t understand this weird shit.
We are fundamentally different animals than you. You come from an honorless society. You have respect for yourself, yeah. But you don’t have any honor. None. And you prove it every day.
When you insult me I will respond in kind. When you insult my family I will beat your ass. When you insult my Southern brothers and sisters, I will help them beat your ass. When you insult our heritage, our culture, our most sacred symbols of who and what we are, I will die fighting you.
Most of the time we don’t think about this shit. So you guys are pretty safe most of the time. But if every member of the Southern culture, started reading this thread, all at the same time our cortisol and testosterone levels would spike all together.
And you motherfuckers would be fucked.
Next time, we’re going to be writing the history books.
February 12, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Sir,
After reading your post my testosterone levels have reached a level surely poisonous to the human body!! 🙂
Your last analogy sent me over the top. If ever this conflict does arise, please let me know what regiment you’re in. I would be honored to fight and die with a southern brother so dedicated.
February 13, 2011 at 2:07 am
R.G…it’s good to hear from someone who is intelligent and observent enough to “get it”. DNA scientists today refer to it as the “warrior gene”. It was no accident that the English sent the Scots to northern Ireland to quell the uprisings between the 13th and 18th centuries. Foreign Gaels”, referring to their mixed Norse and Gaelic heritage were known as the most honorable, loyal and ferocious warriors on the European continent. It was also no accident that they were sent to settle such an inhospital land as North America in the 15th and 16th centuries. These were the southern peoples the North invaded in 1861.
March 7, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Amen – we are from MI and moved to NC for three of the most glorious years of my life. I cried all the way home when we had to move back here for a job. This was less then a year ago. I still cry thinking about the wonderful south and when I have to deal with the insensitivies of the folks here. My family is and was the one you were talking about with our pety fights that have lasted more then 5 years now. I hate that. I was at a pizza place once in NC with my 2 daughters and I got to the front of the line when I realized I had forgotten my purse. A man, a stranger, at the back of the line came forward and bought my family dinner. He then went back to the back of the line. The gal at the registry and everybody else in the place wouldn’t have it. They all moved aside to let him go next and the gal at the registry covered his tab. Mine was for $5.99. His was for $42.00. I thanked him over and over and then went to my car and cried. We seem to have to fight for everything we have here in the north. I think we need to go back to the basics of what we learned in kdg about sharing and being friends.
June 23, 2011 at 3:45 pm
whoa!! The study you use to illustrate your point of honor sounds eerily like a description of some cultures we are at war with atm. Cultures that oppress and dominate. Get the meaning!? Also, it seems somewhat adolescent.
July 3, 2011 at 1:39 pm
TO: R. G. Simmons
Read your reply; as far as I am concerned — when the next “Civil Conflict” occurs — give me a call; this is one “Indiana hay barber” who will be hornored to join you.
To all you who feel the Battle Flag is a symbol of racism: Why don’t you all ask some of my relatives about racism: They live out west —
Pine Ridge
Rosebud
Navajo
Hopi
Apache
For all the libtards who want to see the Battle Flag removed from your narrow view of history — then let’s remove the Stars and Stripes too. It’s just as “racist”
August 12, 2011 at 7:59 pm
Mr. Simmons,
I have just read your collection of quotes, as well as your understanding of folks in the South.
I just wanted to first say, thank you for serving our Country (please share this thought of gratitude with your two Veteran buddies as well), and secondly, that I was so very moved by your words, that flew true, to the point that I was forced to wipe tears from my eyes in order to continue reading the way we are different than others in our ways, the honor we share, our sound ethics, our family values and the Country We Respect & Love!
I am an American, born and bred, of Spanish/Hispanic decent, living in the Southernmost State of Florida. Where unfortunately as it may be, your words should also be aimed at many in the “sunshine state” that have forgotten just what it means to be, Southern.
May God always bring kind blessings to you and your family.
Respectfully,
J.V.G.-Iglesias
August 12, 2011 at 8:39 pm
On another note,
To all you pompous, uneducated fucks out there that continue to repeat that the Confederate flag has been used for “racism & pro-african slavery” for decades….
I love my country, I am an American, and I might be a minority within the borders of my country, but I am an educated one.
To all you shit-talkers out there:
Slavery in the U.S. Consisted of not only Africans, but of Indians & whites as well! Read a non-fiction book for once. Google it!!! All slavery before & even during part of the Civil War was condoned, accepted. and lawful under the Union Flag, NOT THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG!
Lincoln and his family owned African slaves in the onslaught of the Civil War, Lee & his family did not!
THE CIVIL WAR WAS NOT ABOUT SLAVERY & THE SOUTH DID NOT START IT…. IT WAS ABOUT MONEY!
Last point about the South and (African) slavery…. Never did one Southern ship ever bring slaves from the African Continent… They were all Northern ships under the Continental “Union” Flag…
So fuck ya’lll from down here in
SUNNY “SOUTHERN” FLORIDA!
(& yes, please stay your ass up in the northern states, and no we don’t want your tourist dollars, thank you very much!) =o)
August 13, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Right on John!
December 6, 2011 at 1:50 am
I’m a Canadian, and I find your story very well-put.
It’s sad that people just buy stories from teachers instead of actually questionning.
It’s sad that people just assume they’re right cause ”Oh, they got a diploma”.
I say fuck northern governmental brainwashing, and let’s be open to the real side of the story.
I find it sad that people are scared to be open and share their thoughts simply because they have the fear of being made fun of, and being told otherwise.
I’m not buying the ”original” story just because it’s being told by people who have a ”higher eductional level” than us.
That’s why I love being born with the capability of open-mindedness and curiosity; So that I don’t sound like the dumb-fucks that buy shit just like that.
February 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm
To R.G. Simmons – The quotes you shared are fantastic, but I lost a lot of respect for you with your follow-up comment. You come off as being extremely pompous and arrogant – not admirable qualities by any means. It doesn’t do much to support your argument about the superiority of southerners.
February 3, 2012 at 4:24 am
Most of the people who are angry about the Rebel flag think that they have the right to do it bevause the war between the states started about the issue of slavery. What surprises me most is that they seem to forget that slavery still exist today in many parts of Africa and they don’t really worry about it. In Mauritany, they are still slaves, people who get only the foof and the shelter from their master to whom they belong. They may felle away, but as the country is one of the poorest in the world they are pretty sure to starve.
April 27, 2012 at 8:47 am
To Stephanie: So I should just stay silent and accept the unrelenting onslaught of the denigration of my people? If I was able to silently bear such insults without offering any protest you would respect me more apparently. I apologize that I am not able to fulfill your requirements demanded by you for your good feelings toward me and my people.
April 27, 2012 at 9:11 am
RG, thats about right… You and your people attacking the females! You are a peice of shit! “DEGENERATION” What the hell are you talking about! People like you make me want to go in reverse, and go back to that. You have a BLACK President… Most millionares are black! DEGENERATION?!? What else do you want? Oh I know it is like the old west, people like you will make sure people like me will NEVER respect other races!!! What a peice of shit!
April 27, 2012 at 9:19 am
RG I owe you an apoligy… I only read your last comment and reacted…
Obviously I am in the wrong… You might ummm… not use the term MY PEOPLE like it is used by the “PEOPLE IN WHICH WE DON”T SPEAK OF”
July 17, 2012 at 12:56 pm
John this is for you. First of all if you are eduacated language such as that to prove a point is NOT eduacational. Another thing is, it doesnt matter if there were slaves or not, if they are black or not, its the majority. look at Germany, they didnt just kill Jews in ww2 they killed gays, bisexuals, mental illed people and so forth. We generally say it were the jews because they were the majority, so we generaly say black because they were in fact the majority. But the flag doesnt represent slavery, I agree with you on that part but what it does represent is rebellion against the United States of America and should be saw as such. I do believe in private ownership, it is your right but having that flag, which represented rebellion, should not be waving over government buildings. I know for a fact that for years, and with every country, rebellion is treason whch the punishment is death. Please tear down the confederate flags off of government property, it should not be acceptable to any such American.
July 28, 2019 at 11:11 pm
Sweet Jesus and Crackers.
Where do I start?
Firstly, one simply cannot use a Charles Dickens quote to bolster one’s argument regarding morality and injustices; Charles Dickens was an adulterer who shunned his wife and went off to live with his mistress (27 years his junior).
Further, Dickens detested the South. In his book, “American Notes for General Circulation,” published after his first trip to America, Dickens wrote the following,
“The same decay and gloom that overhang the way by which it is approached, hover above the town of Richmond. There are pretty villas and cheerful houses in its streets, and Nature smiles upon the country round; but jostling its handsome residences, like slavery itself going hand in hand with many lofty virtues, are deplorable tenements, fences unrepaired, walls crumbling into ruinous heaps. Hinting gloomily at things below the surface, these, and many other tokens of the same description, force themselves upon the notice, and are remembered with depressing influence, when livelier features are forgotten.
To those who are happily unaccustomed to them, the countenances in the streets and labouring-places, too, are shocking. All men who know that there are laws against instructing slaves, of which the pains and penalties greatly exceed in their amount the fines imposed on those who maim and torture them, must be prepared to find their faces very low in the scale of intellectual expression. But the darkness—not of skin, but mind—which meets the stranger’s eye at every turn; the brutalizing and blotting out of all fairer characters traced by Nature’s hand; immeasurably outdo his worst belief. That travelled creation of the great satirist’s brain, who fresh from living among horses, peered from a high casement down upon his own kind with trembling horror, was scarcely more repelled and daunted by the sight, than those who look upon some of these faces for the first time must surely be.
I left the last of them behind me in the person of a wretched drudge, who, after running to and fro all day till midnight, and moping in his stealthy winks of sleep upon the stairs betweenwhiles, was washing the dark passages at four o’clock in the morning; and went upon my way with a grateful heart that I was not doomed to live where slavery was, and had never had my senses blunted to its wrongs and horrors in a slave-rocked cradle” (Chapter 9, “A NIGHT STEAMER ON THE POTOMAC RIVER. VIRGINIA ROAD, AND A BLACK DRIVER. RICHMOND. BALTIMORE. THE HARRISBURG MAIL, AND A GLIMPSE OF THE CITY. A CANAL BOAT”).
I’ll say this much, you are great at choosing quotes to aid your agenda. However, it’s too bad most of them were never actually stated (e.g., Grant).
March 28, 2011 at 7:04 pm
This is the United States of America, Home of the Freedom & we’re all suppose to be treated & got along with the same no matter what color or even religion we are but I “AGREE” 100% with (AirForceJay, Gloria & a few others)… The confederate flag for decades has been used for a racism symbol. Not just by the group kkk but by what I call hypocrites as well. I’ve lived up North for about 5 years & the rest of my life I’ve lived here in S.C. & I’m 29 years of age, I’ve saw numerous situations concerning racism & Honestly I think it’s alot of ignorance in the people that do use the confederate flag as a racist symbol. I have to agree with our President BARACK OBAMA as well, it needs to be tooken off of the capitol grounds & put in a museum!!!! As for the people that DO use this flag as a racism symbol, need to stop & THINK…Go read a book & get some knowledge of this topic & then after reading a book & learning…Start thinking on why your not happy & why you dwell on something that is not paying your bills that’s if your not living off the government. On a lighter note: I bet half of the caucasians that do use the flag as a racist symbol would NOT do that in front of a group of African Americans!!
August 22, 2012 at 10:56 am
Actually, I’ve seen tons of African Americans waving the confederate flag. But that’s oddly lacking in these discussions. I think the only way for the debate to move forward is for the African American community to start using it.
Because after all, the vast majority of African Americans are Southerners, and there were black soldiers in the confederacy. There were also triple as many Hispanics in the Confederate Army, and over ten times more Jewish soldiers in the Confederacy.
So if you’re hispanic, jewish, or native american, you are many times more likely to be descended from a confederate soldier than a union one! It’s sad how few know their own ancestors!
August 22, 2012 at 11:02 am
It’s also worth noting that the Confederacy had plans to issue their own Emancipation Proclamation and they sent messengers to the British to trade emancipation for military support.
Lincoln basically issued his own Emancipation Proclamation before the South could, to try and prevent foreign recognition as he feared the British whose navy was vastly superior and could destroy the blockade.
It’s also worth noting that US history books never mention that the British issued their own “Dunmore Proclamation” back during the American Revolution.
So if the British won the American Revolution, there would of been no slavery. So basically, your arguments against the South ALL APPLY to the Union as well, since they were fighting the slave emancipating British!
In fact, George Washington’s own white indentured servants (white slaves) and black slaves ran away and joined the British and fought against Washington, after hearing his dinner table rants about liberty. Oh, the irony.
May 18, 2013 at 11:50 pm
I’m just going to put this out there, but taking the right for southerners to have the confederate flag is basically almost asking for another rebellion.
May 27, 2011 at 6:12 am
thanXu you said it all for me them mason 13 stars on it…i guess in the kkk sincere hearts we will always be their animal kunta kenya slaves chained to the tree in the backyard barking for our masters to grant us water…bless their heart
May 27, 2011 at 6:24 am
no more water for u smartass!
December 3, 2011 at 12:46 am
JC
I do not think that whites should ever have done anyone like that. But slavery is over and whites should not be blamed for something their ancestors did to to blacks ancestors. Slavery is over with. And before blacks blame whites for what they did to them in the past they should also think about what the blacks in Africa did to them. They kept them as slave too in the past and they are the ones who soled the slaves to the white people. Those 13 stars represent the 13 colonies. The 13 colonies that would someday become the USA. They fought so that we could have our freedom and be independent and everyone should be thankful for that
June 14, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Love your take on this issue, but the sad thing is that no matter what view or facts you present if your white in the United States and voice your opinion and its not to the liking of a minority viewer then you are a racist . This is what I have a problem with! No Black person living in this age or even the last 80 yrs ever suffered from anything! They have no clue about Africa and the slave trade amongst the tribes there back in the 1800’s. It was their people who sold their own people. They want to keep this issue stirred up till eternity , just let it go! Its been a cop out and excuse for too long. Obviously a intelligent black person who wants to better themselves in the U.S can very easily do so and has more options than the average white guy. By the way your not a african American, you are a American African! America should always come first if this is the land you live in and was born.
July 3, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Thanks Hog! You know, the one thing that gets me is — if a white person wrongs a black person, it’s racism. If it’s the other way around — not zip happens. Equality means EQUALITY.
December 13, 2011 at 12:03 am
Hog I understand why you feel the way you do about African American’s whatever label placed us here America, however that lie been retold over and over about Africans selling off Africans into slavery-in fact in deep Africa those tribes capturing other tribes were doing it to obtain land and cattle from othe tribes ‘removal’ and slave traders were lying to those tribes that captured slaves will have a better life and paid them. Don’t eat somebody else’s bullshit, read core history from several sources not just one source. Bottom line nobody had to buy the slaves from traders mainly (Jews) owned ships from the North. Y’all got your history ass backwards. Another thing do you think it’s acceptable to buy another man and his his family beat the hell out him, torture his his children, rape his mother, burn his father and hang everyone he/she ever loved. Did you know it was common practice to pull apart African’s body using horses to make them submit after being purchase. You think or y’all think that’s cool and normal behavior?
So after 400 years of NO education, Identity completely stripped including language and shell shocked from generational abuse anybody slaved and freed just walk away up beat happy and fucking normal….riight??! 400 years of the worse abuse in human history and that shit just goes away.
What’s disturbing is ignorant people blaming blacks/Africans for doing nothing, being lazy, living off the government. Those that agree to that your fucking stupid! Condition was put into place from Federal level to local level so that black men couldn’t compete for jobs and resources to find their independency. Intittlements was implemented so blacks and others will not attempt to improve their condition and it also destroyed family based on rules set in place. Another fact more white woman stayed on welfare for longer periods then blacks mainly because their #’s. Miseducated black man, kicked, beaten, hanged, killed just for applying for job or voting. Yeah, right, your claim is based on retardation. If America was fair after the civil war the civil rights wouldnt never happen!!!!!!!
For those who do understand the Confederate Battle Flag I salute you good job I to understand the goodness it holds. Everyone else your stupid!
February 17, 2012 at 2:51 am
i Dont beleive the flag was intentionaly meant to stand for racism, bu the history of the south; refusing to give up slave ownership, thinking they were a seperate nation,thus creating their own rules and laws, etc. and i agree with you that blacks NOW talk about slavery and how bad it was and how they deserve compinsation, but they dont really know much about their own background. yes it was bad. but its part of the past. you cant call a double jepourdy.But on the slave trade;not all blacks sold other blacks. and its not like they sold their own kin or anything, after tribal warfare they were slaves to other tribes or became prisoners. Then as the white ships came, the tribal leaders compramised to spare their tribe if they gave up their slaves and prisoners to them some of the times they were forcefully boarded on to ships and sent to europe then america. And Belguim once colonized in north Africa and turned tribes against eachother causing the Tutsi and Hutu Genocide. And about the whole “american African” thing: it come after. It goes as (Ethnicity)(Nationality) for example: “Asian American” or “Latin American”
oh and one more thing, please work on your grammer. Its “AN AFRICAN AMERICAN” NOT “A AFRICAN AMERICAN”
September 3, 2012 at 6:10 am
HOG is an idiot…. smh
September 26, 2011 at 8:42 pm
Great analogy! The association of racism and the confederate flag is also derived from the fact that these states seceeded from the union because they did not want to terminate SLAVERY. They were creating their own central government were slavery would be permittable. The confederate flag is not a symbol for “racist people”; however, it’s history and the reason behind it even coming into existence is based upon it’s defense of upholding slavery within these confederate states.
August 16, 2012 at 8:43 am
I think the thought of standing against the goverment is a bad thing is completley wrong we as a country is our duty to stand for what’s wright no matter the consiquence that’s why each state is its own the laws of Alabama are not the same as Ohio differences that let us be our selves . The great part of America. Is if you don’t fit in where you are do some research and move,it’s obvious you don’t like southerners well we don’t care for you or shallow minded folks like you . I think if the 12 angry pecker heads really spent any time in the south they may feel differently .
September 3, 2012 at 4:48 am
VERY WELL WRITTEN and well put! Your vocabulary and point of view deserve recognition.
October 31, 2015 at 6:51 am
I don’t know who is stupider, you for your left wing crybaby white hating pea brain or that fool who voted for the negroe because he is so called black. obma is the biggest enemy since Hitler. I’ll fly my battle flag and all fools who hate it can kiss my lilly white ass. Screw this PC bullshit. I’m white,born that way and I do not have one shred of guilt for it.
May 1, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Arguing that just because the KKK uses something, it must be racist, is a little flawed. The KKK is quite fond of the cross, for instance, and uses it more often than the Confederate Flag.
In the South, the Confederate Flag is clearly not broadly seen as racist, considering its being flown by South Carolina, Mississippi, and Texas on gov’t property.
In the north it clearly is seen as racist, owing to propaganda.
What matters is how the Southern gov’ts see it, since they are the ones flying it.
As to it being a symbol of rebellion and treason, even though the CSA disappeared almost 150 years ago the Confederate flag is associated with rebellion and the saying “The South shall rise again!”. If it were just being flown by individuals, no problem, but being flown by gov’ts represents possible seperatist tendancies.
June 10, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Doesn’t the KKK burn the Cross? The use of the Cross is not the same as the Flag, at least thats what I understand.
September 12, 2011 at 4:55 am
They burn the cross to light up the darkness in which our world has driven in. They pray more than most people and you cant join the klan unless ur christian. read a book
September 14, 2009 at 2:17 pm
you call it treason to fly the battle flag. i call it pride. it means i’m willing to fight for what i beleive in, fight for what i feel is right, and if that meant an uprising of the southern states because we felt that the government is wronging us then i’d be right there with them, but for now i support the whole country, but i have rights and i will fight for them no matter who it is i have to stand against to do so. there ain’t no man gonna take my freedom without a fight.
July 19, 2010 at 4:24 pm
hell yeah buddy, you dont hear me complaining every time i see a cuban or puerto rican flag wen im in miami or mexicos flag wen im in texas or california. its the same exact thing people. go make a scene about that
January 19, 2010 at 7:25 pm
how the hell is flying my flag TREASON? And we still do have to have our country but it is temporarily under control of the USA. someone tell me why flying the flag is treason. The USA lets people come in from other countries and fly their flags, but we cant fly our confederate flags in the Confederate States of America? just the damn yankees whining again.
March 7, 2010 at 10:06 am
that is so true we also have our rights to be americans we are aloud to fly the GREATEST flag out there and this time we wont mess up and the flag aint racist and if you got to say anything thing about that say it or just go back to bein a damn yankee
September 12, 2011 at 5:01 am
You guys really kill me with your castings of stone calling folk yankees. Now would your mal like that? true southerners dont cast the first stone. there are millions of so called “yankees” that would fight for dixie land than the north, Please dont use that very old word that has no meaning what so ever anymore except the baseball team. from good ol boy to good ol boy you sound dumb using that in now a day talk.
March 8, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Treason is an act directed at overthrowing a country or it’s leader.
The South was simply exercising their lawful right of secession. Something that several northern states had threatened to do on several occasions but never did. The South was bankrolling northern industry and commerce through tariffs on their trade with Europe. There was no way that the northern states and their man Lincoln was going to let their cashcow leave the union of states. It was greed on the part of northern industrialists that led to Lincoln’s murderous invasion of the Southland. Most northern newspapers, and northerners with no interest in the South’s money, agreed with the South’s right to seceede.
April 10, 2010 at 4:00 am
It is rather corny that ideologists from the South would use the word “greed” talking about the Northern states when factually social inequalities was the paradigm of the southern commerce
July 5, 2010 at 10:55 pm
@ golflouis I don’t deny there was no greed on the part of southern planters. Just trying to clarify why the north was so adamant about keeping the southern states from seceeding. As usual it was a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight.
May 1, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Well, actually, the correct argument against the flag is because it’s the flag of losers. And, if there’s one thing Americans hate, it’s losers. And if there’s one thing Americans hate more than normal everyday losers, it’s losers of the whiny, won’t-“shut the f— up” variety.
“The South will rise again!” my butt. Hey, you tried, you got your ass handed to you by people with an actual economy, you surrendered. Fair enough. Despite your treasonous actions, we were willing to let bygones be bygones and let you back in as states rather than, you know, reservations. Now, sit down, join the program, get to work, and have a huge cup of the aforementioned “shut the f— up”!
July 6, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Hey Catholic hipocrit. First off how are you gonna anounce your selve and a religous man and than curse. Thats my first issue with you. Second if there was a flag for just the northern states and you flew it with pride is that so different as being a proud southerner? I dont think so. So why dont you take your hipocracy and stick it you know where. Im a christian so i dont curse.
December 14, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Well its kinda funny how your “A Christian” and you dont curse but you have no problem call him a “Catholic hipocrit”.
And Im agnostic… (Also Agnostic isnt an Atheist if your one of them douch bags)
July 4, 2010 at 6:30 pm
hahaah I have to break it to you, that was good. about that if there was a flag for the nothern states they probably would be flying it! You’re so right. So just because we have a flag & we fly it, doesn’t mean we’re racist. & basically, I really just think that any black person who has a problem with the Rebel Flag being shown should just GO BACK TO AFRICA THEN. Like seriously, if it’s so hard here to see that then go back to where you came from. it’s so simple and like everyone can believe what they want and when I see a black person wearing a lil wayne shirt I don’t get mad that they believe in him. People can do what they want it’s AMERICA, and just because I think lil wayne is wrong doesn’t mean I go gettin all mad about it because it’s just like people showing the Rebel Flag. It’s what you have pride in and like. Simple as that.
September 3, 2012 at 6:43 am
Chelsea is IGNORANT as hell and very sad…
September 3, 2012 at 6:49 am
What if they told you, “why don’t you and the rest of your thieving race take your white asses back to Europe”. Narrow-minded, ignorant, racist points of view are a very sad reminder of where we still require progression in this country. I’m disgusted at the mere thought of calling you a fellow American.
July 17, 2009 at 10:44 am
If it’s the flag of losers then you must be flying it high because you sound like a huge loser! Don’t talk bad about what you don’t understand. The flag represents southern heritage and knowing where we come from and if you don’t like you can do exactly what Robert said.
August 15, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Hey man..If you want to try to point fingers you need to also do alot of history. The north was trying to tax the southern states on the cotton that they were selling to England and France and Spain. The constitution states that the states will govern themselves and when they werent getting any of the profit they didnt like that. Also the north had slaves as well as the president. The reason we fly the flag is for heritage it made us who we are today and to forget the flag is part of forgetting history. And yea we surrendered. ok is that all u know bout the civil war cause apparently you need to go back to the books and learn to read you hypocrytical asshole. So do us a favor and if America means so much to you then how about learning the real history and I have traveled to many different parts of the country and met many different people and from my observation the south is way more patriotic and than any other part of the country.
February 18, 2012 at 8:48 am
Exactly, I so agree learn your history before posting…
September 14, 2009 at 2:11 pm
if not for a few small mistakes we would not have had to surrender. in several of the major battles the north was defeated in very bloody battles. we both lost some and won some but in the end, Lee surrendered. that does not make him or any other southerner losers. i fly that battle flag on the outside of my house and several inside my house. i am proud to be a strong southerner. in my opion it stands for people who are willing to stand up and fight for what is right. and not many people are willing to do that now. most people just tuck tail and run, not alot of southerners will run away, and the north already found that out the hard way once.
March 8, 2010 at 1:20 am
I totally agree with you Southernpride. It’s OUR heritage and OUR right to take pride in our heritage. Pride in the fact that our ancestors loved homeland, family, freedom and heritage enough that there was no hesitation to lay down the plows and pick up muskets and swords to defend against a large, well trained and well armed invader. That took alot of courage.. I think that is why so many people who aren’t from the south can empathize and identify with the Confederacy. Because they hold dear the same values and truths we fought for. And they admire the valor and resolve displayed by our struggle. And they would like to think that if they found themselves in similar circumstances, they would respond in kind. And I have little doubt that they would. I know that being told and taught a history, however inaccurate and fictious it may be, generation after generation is going to have a profound effect on the thinking and beliefs of most people. If you’re told something long enough by a source you deem credible you tend to accept it as fact. The passing of both time and the people that lived the events leave only the history written by the victors. And if that history that doesn’t paint the winning side in a favorable light, don’t think for a minute that history isn’t bent, twisted, added to and subtracted from before being given to you. But if you’re the type of person who doesn’t accept everything he or she is told to think or believe, there are many resources available, especially on the internet that will shed a fresh light of truth on the
reasons leading to the tensions between the northern and the southern states and the atrocities that were committed by whom and to whom. If you take the time to do just a little objective research on the period leading up to the War of Northern Aggression, I’d be very surprised if you didn’t find yourself beginning to question the validity of what you were taught in the classroom at such an impressionable age. Many truths concerning the history of conflict between Native Americans and European settlers, the treatment of those native peoples by the U.S. government and atrocities committed by said government only became known in my generation. And only after extensive media coverage of the valiant struggle to expose the truth by proud decendants of those natives did the U.S. government finally admit to the truth. And the truth wasn’t what I had been taught in school. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But after objective and credible research you still believe in what you were taught in school, I’ll at least have respect for your opinion, knowing that it was arrived at based on your interpretation of the facts, and not merely because someone told you that was the way it all went down. Our founding fathers fought for an honest and just form of government that would ensure the rights and freedom of it’s states and people would be in their own hands of and not those of a large, inefficient oppressive government subject to corruption and manipulation by special interests. Worked pretty good until Lincoln’s war. Ignorance and complacency can have dire consequences. Knowledge is power. Get some.
December 31, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Dosnt look like those so called small mistakes were so small now does it Southern Pride. Strong southerner, What does that mean? I would have thought you would have said a strong American. Just asking?
July 3, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Southernpride: Isn’t flying the Battle Flag just the same as flying the so-called “African Pride” flag? I’m one of those “Yankees”, but I got smart and married a lady from North Carolina. And to me — the War of the Northern Agression was NEVER about slavery — it was about the several states getting “slightly upset” with our government eroding their Consitiutionally PROTECTED rights
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Hey — this is the 10th Amendment to the Constitution!
Not a radical idea either — this is directly from the Articles of Confederation [the precursor of our Constitution]:
“Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.”
December 18, 2009 at 4:10 pm
You are the most angry pathetic person on this site. No one has more pride than the South and if we are so bad, why do all of you “Yankees” try and get down here. Get a life.
December 31, 2010 at 5:18 pm
For real Judy, You really dont know that we come here for the beautiful weather and sunshine. I keep hearing how proud southern people are. Can you be specific of what you’re so proud of that us “Yankees” are not proud of.
January 19, 2010 at 7:56 pm
if you are so over overeducated then why do you sound so dumb? you must be extremely hated in America because it clearly appears that you are a complete loser. go bow down to a picture of Abe Lincoln in New York, you Aggravating Undereducated Atheist!
February 4, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Overeducated? Never knew ignorant drivel was a side effect of that condition. One of the reasons the northern states had “an actual economy” is stated in Georgia’s Declaration of Sucession: “The material prosperity of the North was greatly dependent on the Federal Government; that of the the South not at all. In the first years of the Republic the navigating, commercial, and manufacturing interests of the North began to seek profit and aggrandizement at the expense of the agricultural interests. Even the owners of fishing smacks sought and obtained bounties for pursuing their own business (which yet continue), and $500,000 is now paid them annually out of the Treasury. The navigating interests begged for protection against foreign shipbuilders and against competition in the coasting trade. Congress granted both requests, and by prohibitory acts gave an absolute monopoly of this business to each of their interests, which they enjoy without diminution to this day. Not content with these great and unjust advantages, they have sought to throw the legitimate burden of their business as much as possible upon the public; they have succeeded in throwing the cost of light-houses, buoys, and the maintenance of their seamen upon the Treasury, and the Government now pays above $2,000,000 annually for the support of these objects. Theses interests, in connection with the commercial and manufacturing classes, have also succeeded, by means of subventions to mail steamers and the reduction in postage, in relieving their business from the payment of about $7,000,000 annually, throwing it upon the public Treasury under the name of postal deficiency. The manufacturing interests entered into the same struggle early, and has clamored steadily for Government bounties and special favors. This interest was confined mainly to the Eastern and Middle non-slave-holding States. Wielding these great States it held great power and influence, and its demands were in full proportion to its power. The manufacturers and miners wisely based their demands upon special facts and reasons rather than upon general principles, and thereby mollified much of the opposition of the opposing interest. They pleaded in their favor the infancy of their business in this country, the scarcity of labor and capital, the hostile legislation of other countries toward them, the great necessity of their fabrics in the time of war, and the necessity of high duties to pay the debt incurred in our war for independence. These reasons prevailed, and they received for many years enormous bounties by the general acquiescence of the whole country”. One of the very reasons Southern states suceeded. I don’t claim to be well educated, certainly not overeducated. That being said lets address the rest of your statement. If you want me to “shut the f-up”, bring your skinny little yankee ass down to Texas and shut me up sugar britches. Damn, guess I’m not as good of a Christian either.
March 7, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Angry Overeducated Catholic- “…you got your ass handed to you by people with an actual economy…”. As Northern states gained a majority in both houses, they began to use the South as a cash cow. Here’s how it worked: Most Southerners who exported cotton bartered the cotton in Europe for goods. When the protective tariffs were imposed, that meant Southerners had to pay them. To make matters worse, the North would then use the revenue for pork-barrel projects in its states. The South was faced with either paying high tariffs and receiving no benefits from the revenue or buying
artificially high-priced Northern goods.
There were no income taxes at that time. All federal money was generated by these tariffs. Four southern states alone contributed over fifty percent of the annual total. Angry Overeducated Catholic Says: “Despite your treasonous actions, we were willing to let bygones be bygones and let you back in as states rather than, you know, reservations”. It was not a civil war. A civil war is when two or more factions contend for control of one government. At no time did the South intend or attempt to overthrow the government of the United States. The Southern states simply withdrew from what they correctly viewed as a voluntary union.
They formed their own union and adopted their own constitution. The U.S. government remained intact. There were just fewer states, but everything else remained as exactly as it was. You can be sure that, with as much bitterness and hatred of the South that there was in the North, the Northerners would have tried Confederates for treason if there had been any grounds. There weren’t, and the South’s worst enemy knew that. It was very gracious of you however “to LET us back in”. Thanks.
Angry Overeducated Catholic Says: “Now, sit down, join the program, get to work, and have a huge cup of the aforementioned “shut the f— up”!” Perhaps AOC could benefit by following his own advice?
April 9, 2010 at 1:44 am
For someone who got their ass handed to them we sure did kill a helluva lot more you yankee sumbitches than ya’ll killed of us.
June 24, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Umm,sir,I don’t know if you know this, probably not,but there really was no winner to the civil war,everyone fought for they believed in or died trying, plus,when you have brothers killing brothers who really wins?If you’re over educated,then how do you not know that?
The phrase The South will rise again!, if you think about,the American government is trying to mess with the constitution,although you can’t do that with ours,and the Southerners fought because their rights were getting fucked with,get your damn facts right!
July 19, 2010 at 4:29 pm
id rather have a cup of my ma’s sweet tea. im actually not familiar with the brand you mentioned
August 30, 2010 at 9:09 am
@ breakerbreaker19.. I am surprised you are not familiar with that brand…I thought you were a trucker through out the north too…they sell that brand in most yankee coffee houses where they sit around and discuss todays politics and how everything is G.W’s fault.. heck I am thinking of becoming a liberal myself so that I would have an excuse for everything that hapened.”Didn’t get a raise…Dang that George Bush..” “Kid struck out in baseball…Dang that George Bush”…”Wife left you for a yankee boy with a cup of ‘S.T.F.U.’ coffee…Dang that George Bush..” WOW….see how easy it was? If not only the South but the rest of the USA (of which I was ankle deep in sand defending 20 years ago) does not wake up the government is going to limit our constitutional rights just like it was doing in the 1850’s. So boys and girls…stock up on your ammo and “C.B.F’s”..they might be needed again…
January 23, 2011 at 12:17 pm
well i just think that is is truly sad that you are a catholic man and your response was that the south surrendered to people with an “actual economy” WOW what bible do catholics read??? see us southern CHRISTIANS read the one that says we are to look to the LORD for everything that we need and it will be provided… our economy doesnt matter and will eventually fail because it is dependent on the man… 1Timothy 6:5-7 “and constant friction between men of corrupt mind,who have been robbed of the truth and who think that GODliness is a means of financial gain. But GODliness with contentment is of great gain. For WE brought nothing into the world and can take nothing out of it.” 1Timothy 6:10 “For the love of money is the root of all evil…” i will pray for you!! and it also says proverbs 23 “he who guards his mouth and his tongue keeps himself from calamity” i will pray for you! and also James 3:9-10 “with the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in GOD’s likeness, out of the same mouth praise and cursing. My brothers this should not be.” i will pray for you!!! The bible that I read also has several passages from the Lord and his son Jesus about ANGER!!! so maybe before you start letting everyone else know how they should be… you should pray to GOD about your own issues…and maybe change your name…ANGRY OVEREDUCATED CATHOLIC…really nothing about that goes together!!!! i will be praying for you!!!!
August 29, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Dear Rhonda,
I love your way of talking straight to the person who needs it. I really hope to get the chance to meet you one day. It was just great to read your letter and to guess the strength of character you have.
Cheers,
Jaycee
February 10, 2011 at 1:48 pm
I fly the flag but it is because of southern pride not racism. Just like you are Catholic (so am I) you have heard that our religion believes in thing that others don’t but does that mean we should change our religion or stand up for what we believe in. Read the replies that the southern’s are writing. Not one of them wrote that they fly the flag because of racism. I think everyone should be proud of where they come from. Are you proud to be an American? Well it is the same thing for me. I’m proud to be an American and proud to be from the South.
April 1, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Ashley i am with you one hundred percent.I feel that if you are proud to be form the south than wave that flag.To all the people that think it’s racist can go to hell.
May 1, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Joe Carnahan makes many of the same arguments I made in a private e-mail before publication regarding the lack of a “true meaning” to a symbol.
AM is, of course, entitled to publish whatever he wants, but I respectfully submit that he’s smoking crack and has focused on one event to the exclusion of many others, i.e., he’s focused on the moss on the north side of the trunk of one tree and totally missed the forest. I totally dispute the claim that “slavery had little to do with it” since it was among the top three central issues in American politics from about 1820 to the Civil War, growing more and more contentious as time went on. It didn’t happen according to the oversimplified picture people have from high school history, but focusing on one amendment which passed Congress at the beginning of the war but was never enacted (or any other single event, especially one involving a policy that wasn’t executed) means very little. Simply put, secession happened for a reason, and that reason was the conflict over slavery, along with all that it implied about the economic and social organization of slave vs. free states. Suffice it to say that there were many precursor skirmishes, e.g., Bleeding Kansas, Harper’s Ferry, etc. The very admission of states to the Union was carefully balanced before the war to admit one slave and one free state (Missouri Compromise). There was an attempt to purchase Cuba from Spain in the 1840s which died under the slavery debate. The fact that at the end of the war, three amendments (13th, 14th, and 15th) to the Constitution WERE enacted that outlawed slavery seems to me to be pretty solid evidence that slavery sure did have something to do with it. The fact that many Unionists didn’t care about slavery or cared less about it and thus were willing to trade it off is beside the point: secession happened because of the slavery debate, and all else follows. The Corwin Amendment wouldn’t have even been PASSED otherwise!
I highly suggest taking a look at the book by James MacPherson, Battle Cry of Freedom, for a long dissection of the lead-up to the war, particularly the 1850s:
January 14, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Suggested reading for mildly: Newspapers of the day, southern as well as northern. All your history seems to come from high school history books which seem to change to accommodate political correctness and climate.
January 18, 2010 at 12:18 am
“Should I become convinced that the object of the government is to execute the wishes of the abolishionists, I pledge you my honor as a man and a soldier, I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side.” U.S. General Ulysses S. Grant – Abolishionists were a minority even in the northern states. The leading Washington D.C. paper of that time, the National Intelligencer reported Harper’s Ferry as a “treasonable outbreak” and that “expressions of sympathy for the act, and the chief actors involved, are confined to certain leading politicians and fanatical literateurs, who in no way express the sentiments of the mess of the northern people.” Lincoln’s reasons for enacting the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 was a result of the south’s refusal to accept Lincoln’s demand to lay down arms and reenter the union if the south wanted to keep it’s slaves. More importantly it eased tensions with pro-abolishionists Britian and France who were threatening to enter the war on the side of the Confederacy after Lincoln ordered the arrests of the South’s ambassadors to those countries in international waters. Lincoln knew that if the British invaded from Canada he would have no choice but to recognize the Confederacy, as a war on two fronts would have been certain defeat for the North. That my yankee friends is when slavery became a KEY issue in the Civil War.
January 18, 2010 at 12:51 am
If Lincoln was willing to allow the south to keep it’s slaves if it reentered the union, it would be my guess that preservation of the Union was the real key issue with the North. The key issue with the south was state rights. The continued right to govern themselves without intervention of a central government. Kind of like when we rebelled against Britain in order to govern ourselves.
May 1, 2007 at 8:57 pm
AOC wrote: “The South will rise again!” my butt.
I’d say since (a) the Jim Crow system gave them most of what they wanted for another century post-War and (b) the South has been arguably *the* decisive political player for several decades, it managed to rise.
Of course, the development air conditioning helped immensely.
February 4, 2010 at 4:32 pm
The Jim Crow system as well as local and state Black Code legislation was more the result of Lincoln’s emancipation of slaves without any good legislation or plan to incorporate them into society. Reconstruction was a failure. Northern politicians soon came to realize continued sanctions against the South would only send it deeper and deeper into economic ruin and turmoil. And you’re right. The South has managed well. The problems have always occurred when the federal government and northern politicians have tried to force their will upon Southerners.
April 14, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Jim crow laws werent because of reconstruction numb nuts, it was because slave owners legally needed a way to stay on top and force blacks to keep working for them. You southerners are so full of southern pride bullshit that you dont even know the only reason you people are relevant economically is because northern companies invest in your states for cheap labor, and resources that you havent taken advantage of yet. You guys all look for people to blame personally the flag is representative of a government who went in open rebellion and supported the use of slaves for labor. The fact that the Civil War wasnt about slavery does not change the fact that the South openly supported the use of slave labor and were so ingrained in their use of slavery that they kept black people oppressed for a hundred years after. The flag is racist
May 1, 2007 at 10:07 pm
The Corwin Amendment passed because the north believed that by making a concession over the eventual status of slavery, then the South would come back. What they failed to understand is that the dispute was fundamentally not about slavery.
What the dispute was about was the balance of power in the nation between the Southern cultural and economic model, and the northern one. The issue of new states being slave or free was an issue because it defined who could migrate to the state. A southerner with his money tied up in the slave economy can’t migrate to the new state, while a northerner can’t compete against slave agriculture.
This balance of power was important because of the vast overlooked issues which came up prior to the Civil war and led to its inception. A good example is the Nullification Crisis over the Tariff of 1828, where Southern states disputed the Tariff because it imposed a 62% tax on more than 90% of imported goods, forcing Southern states to buy industrialized goods from the Northern ones. Northern response to southern protest was to send warships off the coast.
This increasing disparity of power was already inflicting wrongs on the South of the magnitude of the English prior to the revolutionary war. To make matters worse, the northern cultural model led to higher population growth, which all but guarenteed they would continue to dominate politics in the future.
The Southern states didn’t want to be trapped into a Union in which they were second class citizens, and so as the balance of power continued to shift, they finally left.
Not over slavery, but over the issue of regional disenfranchisment.
The Corwin Amendment is important because most people have never heard of it. The readiness of Northern states to accept it, and the fact that it was all but ratified (and only wasn’t due to the outbreak of the war) tears down the notion that the war and secession were about slavery.
January 14, 2010 at 9:19 pm
A man who has done his homework.
May 2, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Allow me to greedily have the last word by just pointing out that none of this verbiage gives a convincing justification for flying the flag of whiny, stuck-up, elitist losers…
July 6, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Again isnt greed a deadly sin. Your pathetic.
June 25, 2010 at 4:51 pm
The last word is yours AOC. However, it speaks more of you than those you seek to discredit.
May 3, 2007 at 9:22 am
AM wrote: “This increasing disparity of power was already inflicting wrongs on the South of the magnitude of the English prior to the revolutionary war.”
No we are not biased, not much at all….
May 3, 2007 at 9:49 am
The British never levied protectionist taxes to the tune of 90% of all imports to the colonies, and the “intolerable taxes” the British did levy, like the Townshend Act and the Stamp Act where no where near 62% of the value of the goods.
Personally, I side with the north, but I sympathize with the South’s predicament. I would think as a Libertarian you’d be against Federal abuse of power…
May 3, 2007 at 11:09 am
You assume I see a Federal abuse of power as having occured.
As for the British, the taxes placed upon the colonies were lower than those paid by citizens living back in England and were enacted to alleviate the costs associated with the 7 years war fought to defend the colonists from France. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
June 25, 2010 at 4:57 pm
If you did’t see abuse of power you had your eyes or mind closed. There was gross abuse of power that continues to this day !!
May 3, 2007 at 11:53 am
I think Angry Midwesterner’s post 6, paragraph 2, actually makes my point for me: that slavery was the crux of the problem because the entire economic and social system of North and South were caught up in the “peculiar institution.” I take Lincoln at his word: “I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free.” This sums up the entire issue.
The secession question was definitely important and broader. New England states debated it, for instance, over opposition to Jefferson’s policies during the Embargo of 1807 and later the War of 1812. Nevertheless, the root of Southern secession was the fact of slavery.
Of course, my general reaction to the name “War of Northern Aggression” is that there’s a word missing between “of” and “Northern”… Justified.
June 25, 2010 at 5:29 pm
What’s justified about invading a sovereign territory? A government is empowered only by the consent of those who are governed. We’ve been spoon fed that it was all about slavery for so long that people with no mind of their own swallow it. For the New England states it was about money. Most other northern and border states that may have seceeded with the south were quickly “occupied” by Union forces sent by Lincoln. We’ve been taught the war started with the South’s firing on Ft. Sumpter. It’s true that was when Lincoln declared war on the south. But what you’re not told is that Lincoln ordered union forces from other southern forts to Ft. Sumpter,SC because of it’s importance in contolling traffic to and from Charleston harbor. Then attempted to reinforce it by sea with troops and supplies from the north. You’re also not told that the South never declared war and only asked to be left alone, taking military action only when invaded from the north. It’s not a north vs south thing as most northerners felt the south had the right to seceede. It’s only since the war that conception has changed. I’ll leave it to your own devices to figure out why and who inspired that notion.
May 3, 2007 at 11:57 am
AM wrote: “The British never levied protectionist taxes to the tune of 90% of all imports to the colonies, and the “intolerable taxes” the British did levy, like the Townshend Act and the Stamp Act where no where near 62% of the value of the goods.”
Follow the money:
The funny thing is, guys like John Calhoun were ALL FOR big tariffs in the teens whereas Daniel Webster went the other way, when New England’s economy was based primarily on shipping and trade. (And as I mentioned previously, secessionist pressure in New England was substantial at the same time.) A few decades later their positions completely switched.
June 25, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I wonder why their position changed? Could it be that their position is not based on right or wrong but on the position most favorable to their pocketbooks?
May 3, 2007 at 12:31 pm
You assume I see a Federal abuse of power as having occured.
Ah, so Federal protectionism is a Libertarian ideal now? Got it. Have your cake and eat it too.
May 3, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Protection of the populace is the primary role of a governemnt. In this case protecting the nations industry from outside competition. Libertarianism does not require one to believe in a free market whereby one’s government must allow other nations to compete on a level playing field. The idea of protecting northern industry over southern agriculture is simply a matter of protecting the industry that is responsible for a larger portion of the nations wealth and employs a greater portion of the populace.
Ultimately I argue that it was fair since the north in effect was forced to pay higher taxes on imports the same as the south. Simple numbers, more people, more wealth, equals greater value to the nation. All governemnts must ultimately make such choices for the good of the nation, not just one region.
June 25, 2010 at 5:55 pm
The role of government is to SERVE the PEOPLE. We had state militias that protected us. Didn’t need someone to tell us, “you may not like this but it’s for your own good”. BY and FOR the PEOPLE, remember? Your argument about the tariffs being fair is shot out of the water when you consider the FACT that four southern states alone contributed over 50% of the nations take in tariffs, most of which was being used to subsidize industry in the north. How do you see that as fair or a choice for the good of the nation, not just one region? Northern GREED administered by their man Lincoln is what killed over 650,000 Americans and maimed many, many more. Kind of cool how they manage to blame it on slavery and have the ignorant believe it. I guess we’re still in Afganistan and Iraq because we’re still looking for Osama? Lol.
February 11, 2011 at 11:27 am
Angry Fascist said: “a matter of protecting the industry that is responsible for a larger portion of the nations wealth…”
Whoa. What? You don’t know what you are talking about so why are you even getting in this debate? If you don’t know something don’t comment.
The South, home to 9 million people, was generating 70% of the wealth. The North, home to 20 million people, was generating in 30%.
Shut up and go read a book.
May 3, 2007 at 1:42 pm
“Libertarians also oppose any laws restricting personal or consensual behavior, as well as laws on victimless crimes. As such, they believe that individual choices for products or services should not be limited by government licensing requirements or state-granted monopolies, or in the form of trade barriers that restrict choices for products and services from other nations (see Free trade).”
Sounds like you may not be a Libertarian 🙂 Governments which create trade barriers interfer with the ability of a citizen to exercise their right of choice and economic independance.
The idea of people and industry being valuable because they are valuable to the nation is not a typical Libertarian idea. Libertarianism rejects the notion that a people exist to better their government and that the good of the government and majority come first. In fact, Libertarians typically fall into one of two categories, Minarchist and Anarcho-Capitalists. Both sides oppose tariffs and taxes, but to differing degrees.
May 3, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Well Republicans believe in small government and no public debt, yet we are experiencing one of the largest growths of governemnt and increases in debt under a republican party controlled government (or at least we were until the house seats were all rearranged).
Thankfully political parties are not like religious affiliations (though granted libertarians and communists often seem to confuse the two), one is free to pick and choose which ideals they agree with and which they do not, then declare affiliation with the group that most closely matches one’s philosphy, or at least does on the issues one is most passionate about.
I may claim to be libertarian but I am not New Hampshire level insane about it. Yes I am against seat belt laws, however I am not against DUI laws, because they affect other people. Freedom of choice does have its limits.
To that end though in general I am against tariffs I do not consider the levy of such taxes to be inherently “evil” or “sinister”. Protection of one’s industry for the future is protection of the welfare of the populace. Afterall if the government is poor and weak due to the collapse of its economy how then is it to protect its citizens from invasion?
June 25, 2010 at 6:10 pm
The feds are more concerned with using our military to acquire foreign oil than protecting it’s citizens from invasion. If it were they would secure our southern border.
May 4, 2007 at 9:18 am
No… Republicans believe in the Republican platform, which much like the Democratic platform shifts from time to time.
Libertarians and Commie Bastards are not political parties, but Political Philosophies. You either ascribe to them, or you don’t.
You can’t be a free market commie bastard, and you can’t be a pro-tax-the-hell-out-of-the-people Libertarian.
May 4, 2007 at 10:46 am
A “pro-tax” libertarian would be a contradiction. But you could be a libertarian and believe in this or that particular tax, for proper libertarian principles. For example, a tariff on incoming goods from protectionist societies whose proceeds are divided among individuals and companies which were affected by the protectionism—thereby making the original protectionist tariffs ineffective because you can sell at a lower price to those protectionist countries.
Now, most libertarians would probably argue that this is not the best pratical way to go, but I don’t know that they’d be opposed in principle. The goal should be to move always towards more economic, political, and social freedom and away from non-market controls on people.
May 4, 2007 at 10:57 am
Of course, but the Tariff of 1828 doesn’t fit that model, and typically a Libertarian isn’t going to want his Gov’t trying to control other gov’ts by taxing him, but in some situations it can happen.
Of course the core of the Libertarian platform is “LEAVE MY STUFF ALONE!”, until they need some extra stuff then it becomes, “Gov’t handouts please? (But still leave my stuff alone)”
May 4, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Correct they are political philosophies, not idealogies. One can be a Republican without subscribing to the Bush tax cut, or a Democrat and not believe in universal health care, this is not England where one must slavishly obey the party line.
Am I truly a Libertarian? Probably not, afterall my screenname is ‘Fascist’ Libertarian 😉 However when one despises seat belt laws as much as I it is difficult to find another more suitable label.
May 4, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Republican and Democrat aren’t philosophies, they’re political parties devoid of any concrete philosophy.
Not too long ago, Democrats where tied to ideals of white supremacy and state soverignty, whereas Republicans were heavy handed fedarlists, and pro-tax.
Recently Republicans were state soverignty, anti-tax, and Democrats became the party of political equality.
Today Republicans are the anti-Brown people, pro-death party, and the Democrats are the pro-abortion, anti-business party.
May 4, 2007 at 2:25 pm
oops I screwed up the format I meant to imply that Communism and Libertarianism are philosophies not Republican and Democratic parties.
My roommate is firmly Republican, registered and has only ever voted republican, however is about as pro-abortion as one can get. One can be part of a party without holding to every part of the party platform, just as one can subscribe to a philosophy without agreeing with every aspect of it.
July 19, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Gentlemen, Gentlemen. I think we can all agree that what the confederate flag truly represents is TREASON. The betryal of the nation I love. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t care what else is claims to be, it was created by, flown by and continues to be waved by traitors. I don’t hate the flag and more than I hate the swatika. But I hate the traitors and scum who continue to wave it.
January 19, 2010 at 8:02 pm
not genius.
June 24, 2010 at 10:04 pm
It’s not treason,if anything,the North was being doing treason,breaking the laws of it’s own country,so the South were actually justified in what they were fighting for,try to get this through you fucking head,they fought for,wait for it,wait;STATE’S RIGHTS!
June 25, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Look up the definition of treason “genius” and then see were the tag fits. lol.
July 21, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Oh, I don’t know, treason may be too harsh, since the Southerns did have a point about the Constitution being, er, vague about states leaving the Union.
So that the southern leadership and generals were traitors might be disputed…
…but nobody can dispute that they were LOSERS!!!
🙂
(Hence I stand by my earlier statements.)
September 14, 2009 at 2:23 pm
DAMN YANKEE!
February 4, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Still waiting Sugar Britches.
February 11, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Who won the War between America and North Vietnam over South Vietnam?
Oh, the USA lost. LOSERS!
May 19, 2012 at 3:40 pm
you should be ashamed of yourself. I bet you were one of the ones standing in the streets spitting and throwing things. Like our boys had a choice in that war. I dont agree either with our getting involved but name calling is just low.My daughter is serving right now and thank the Lord that people have more sense these days to not humiliate them when they come home and are in uniform. You are the ones that should hang your head and someone throw things at you for just being ignorant.
November 2, 2012 at 11:36 pm
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by lost, because 58,220 American lives were lost, but the estimates of VC killed is from 200,000 to 1.1 million. So go eat a dick you douche
August 10, 2007 at 9:52 am
[…] #2: In addition to being a state full of traitors, they had the cajones to attempt to invade New Mexico. After marching through Los Cruces and […]
September 9, 2007 at 2:20 pm
you said the flag represents a nation which declared war on the united states,this is false,indeed we fired on the fort in sc,but this was on confederate soil,and only after all attempts were made to ask them to leave.also one should know that before this firing,there was a raid into virginia by union calvery as to put an end to conferate uprising,where nothern soilders shot and killed southern people,so should we still fly the flag of the usa,when truly they are the ones who invaded a country,and forced them to stay in a union of which they had voted legally to suceed?
September 17, 2007 at 11:36 am
You always get some people with no connection to the history and emotion to pass judgement. I think Nixon referred to those academics as pseudo-intellectuals. Or as I hear these days “uneducated people will always know a lot about nothing.” As far as it being treason to fly a foreign flag on public property. (1) whose public property is it in the first place? the states’? and (2)we better get around to all of the amusement parks and properties around the country that fly the various flags of previous owners of the U S, like Spain, France and Britain.. If we are a multi-cultural and diversity ridden country, then our own opinion may mean nothing to anyone else. I believe some people just have too much time on their hands to pass judgement on someone else. I see what diversity has done to our schools and our reputation in the world. In fact it’s what allows the Croats and Bosnians the free license to kill each other with glee So there.
As for me in rememberance of my ancestors of the 8th Georgia Cavalry, the 24th, 15th, and 7th Georgia Infantries—we fly one of the several flags of the Confederacy–when we want to.
June 25, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Amen brother.
September 17, 2007 at 11:39 am
If States Rights have never been an issue shouldn’t we as a Christian Country which does’nt believe in diversity of opinions, be shutting down gay marriage and abortions, Oh wait a minute, that belongs to States Rights!!!
November 1, 2007 at 8:34 pm
That’s news in Texas.
No, that’s not quite right: It’s a hoax. Texas doesn’t do that.
February 11, 2011 at 12:16 pm
He’s thinking of the Six Flags amusement parks. No one ever accused a Yankee of have an abundance of intelligence.
November 1, 2007 at 8:46 pm
No it isn’t a hoax. As someone who lived in Texas, I can tell you they do. I have photos, its quite common. They don’t fly the confederate battle flag, but they do fly the stars and bars.
June 25, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Been in Texas 58 years sport. Traveled all over it, many times. Guess you need to post those photos to make a believer out of me.
June 25, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Tony..you are on fire tonight lol
July 9, 2012 at 2:22 am
I think maybe the stars and bars you mention might be confused with our regular Texas State Flag. There are only two flags we fly…the American Flag and the Texas Flag. Both are flown at the same height and are given the same respect. If you lived here long enough you would see the two flags, and only these two, at buildings and functions around our state.
Silly amusement parks and festivals don’t count.
November 2, 2007 at 3:43 pm
I’d love to see the photos. Schools are state buildings, and they don’t fly the stars and bars. Some don’t even fly the Texas flag (though most do). I can’t think of any state building I’ve seen flying more than the U.S. flag and the Texas flag. At Dallas City Hall they fly the Dallas flag.
It it once was common to see any confederate flags flying at official Texas installations, those days are gone.
Six Flags, yes. State of Texas buildings, no.
November 2, 2007 at 3:48 pm
I can name a couple off memory, including the State Capital in Austin, and most of the public buildings in Houston. I’ll dig around this weekend and try and post some pics.
February 4, 2010 at 4:46 pm
I’ve lived here 57 years and never seen a Confederate flag displayed on any government property. Let us know where they are. I want to take pictures. lol
June 25, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Oh, and most of my adult life has been spent working in Downtown Houston, public buildings included. Were you on some kind of medication when you were here?
February 11, 2011 at 12:22 pm
I’m taking the family down to San Antonio tonight for the 150 year anniversary reenactment of the Twiggs Surrender at the Alamo tomorrow.
I bet I’ll probably see some Rebel flags here and there. 😛
November 3, 2007 at 9:09 am
I wonder if perhaps you’re confusing the stars and bars with the State Flag of Texas.
November 3, 2007 at 9:54 am
Nope, one has one star, and two bars (the state flag), the other has several of each. Very distinctive.
November 3, 2007 at 10:08 am
Still digging through my archives for the photos, but here are some to whet your whistle.
Texas state capital (from the capital’s home page), showing the seal of the Confederacy (first to the left of the US seal):
Texas State Museum in Austin:
Reverse of the Texas state seal:
http://www.tspb.state.tx.us/spb/exten/revseal.htm
January 14, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Hey, don’t mess with Texas AM. Is it all things southern, all things non midwestern or just all things you hate?
July 9, 2012 at 3:25 am
I believe you are confusing displays of our history with the flags we fly on our buildings today. Those images you claim will whet our whistles are the flags of nations that claimed the Texas area before we fought for independence and became a sovereign nation. I thought you actually had something to prove and now I am laughing. You must not have been in Texas long enough to learn about our history or culture. What you offer as proof is a visual timeline leading up to us becoming part of the United States as we know it today. The first image you offer is of our State Capitol building; if you stand in the middle there and look directly upward you will see the dome. On the walls leading upward toward the dome you will find paintings on each floor of each governor and at the top there are paintings of the President and Vice Presidents of the Republic Of Texas.
I can see how a non-Texan could misunderstand this since s/he would not have grown up here. We are taught our history in school and by our families so we know this all by heart by the time we reach puberty. While we really don’t expect foreigners to know our history we would hope someone would do their research before trying to argue our past and our current day loyalties to the United States.
November 3, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Yeah, there are six flags on the Texas Seal. And the Bob Bullock Museum displays the six flags of Texas.
But the Stars and Bars are not flown at state buildings as a rule. Not at the state Capitol. Not anywhere.
The six flags from the seal are also depicted on the capitol, in a sort of bas relief fashion.
But why don’t you focus on the Mexican flag, or the Spanish flag? Historical displays of the six flags of Texas are not the same thing as flying a Confederate flag just to show it off.
November 3, 2007 at 9:27 pm
It is flown at the state house, and at many other state buildings.
As to why I don’t focus on the other flags? Because the subject of this post isn’t “The Mexican Flag”. I will agree, flying the Mexican flag is far worse.
November 4, 2007 at 8:47 am
I’m still looking for stars and bars at the Texas Capitol — I can’t find it.
Driving around Dallas yesterday, I passed over a dozen state buildings. None flew the stars and bars.
If it ever flew, it’s gone now. I think you may be confusing it with the Texas state flag.
December 10, 2007 at 12:56 pm
you are all jackasses!!!!!!!!!! the north unlawfully taxed the southern imports from europe (morrell tarriff). just as england did in the revoluton (taxation without reprensation) this caused the south to succeed not slavery!!!!!
January 15, 2008 at 2:16 pm
hii i just wanted to be famous and let mii name be known so hii everybody the rocks dude
June 25, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Hahaha…hii Tiffany. You rock too!!
March 18, 2008 at 7:38 pm
The government property in question in SC where the flag flies is the Confederate Memorial. Quite frankly, it IS an appropriate place. If anyone from Illinois who has as big a hate-mongerer for a pastor like the “Reverend” Wright decides to drop into South Carolina and start with the usual Yankee racial crap-stirring where none exists around every Federal election, then I suggest that the Democratic candidate in question should look in the mirror the next time he should lecture about “hate.”
April 10, 2008 at 8:10 pm
I think it is racism maybe…
January 15, 2010 at 6:15 pm
don’t talk about or make assumptions about my flag unless you know what your talking about, yankee
February 18, 2010 at 1:22 pm
if you think it is racism then you dont know the real meaning of the flag..
April 26, 2008 at 10:01 am
IF you think the confederate flag means to offend some one then you need a history lesson. The confederate flag isn’t meant for racism, and if you do think it wasmeant for that then you do need a history lesson.
April 26, 2008 at 11:46 am
Perhaps a few don’t know how offensive the racist flag is, and so they might be excused for once displaying it. A second time can’t be excused.
Slavery in the U.S. in the two decades prior to the Civil War was racist. While we can find all sorts of statements about how the war was fought for “states’ rights” the fact remains that the only issues in question were tariffs on cotton grown on slave plantations, and slavery itself. Southerners, some of them, were willing to rend the nation, even though there was not a majority supporting an end to slavery in the North, because the Republican Party advocated working to end slavery. It’s probably significant to recall that Lincoln promised he would not work to end slavery as president in the campaign of 1860. Such nearly-rational arguments were trampled in the hot-headed run to secession, to protect a racist institution: Slavery.
Oh, sure, there were other issues. Racism was the chief one, however, and regardless how we can make the economic argument that the economy of the South depended on slavery, the fact remains that slavery was racist, preserving it was racist, and descendants of slaves and others oppressed take great offense at it today.
The Nazi swastika was stolen from Asian groups who used it as a religious emblem. But if one flies a Nazi swastika in Tel Aviv today, even Israel’s religious freedom laws won’t protect you.
The Confederate States’ battle flag is like that here, in the U.S. Flying the flag is rubbing salt in a healing (we hope) wound.
Don’t ask me to say it’s a nice thing to do.
July 6, 2009 at 6:00 pm
The problem with this country and the poeple in it are stuck in the past. The entire country was racist and slaves were everywhere north and south, and people are stuck in the past. Get over it. I got stars and bars on my truck and have plenty of black friends. They have sense. You cant judge someone and call him a racist just because he’s a proud southerner. Thats why tere is such a contraversy to this day. People are to quik to judge.
February 4, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Not asking you to say anything. But I’ll be damned if you’re going to tell me I can’t fly it. If it offends you or anyone else, there’s not much I can do about that. Offending people would not be my reason for displaying a Confederate flag should I choose to do so.
January 23, 2011 at 12:37 pm
i am with robert and tony….the problems of today all stem from sooooo many years ago…man if people just knew the power of forgiveness and letting go!!! i have a southern son and he has many southern friends, they fly the confederate flag on their trucks!!! these are all good kids, they don’t discriminate or hate, they don’t cause trouble, they don’t go to jail, they do well in school, and they are all there for each other!!! to them this flag means they are SOUTHERN COUNTRY boys, good ol’ corn bred bean fed, GOD fearin, family lovin, mud slingin, SOUTHERN COUNTRY boys!!! that is it!!! they have black friends, white friends, mexican friends…they are just proud to be southern country!!! Obviously there are many opinions on what this flag means so for anyone to automatically assume racism i believe is just a little racist in itself!!! GET TO KNOW THE PERSON BEHIND THE FLAG BEFORE YOU JUDGE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 25, 2011 at 12:38 pm
I found this entire blog and all comments interesting and have been laughing my head off at both sides; after all, the Civil War was over 150 years ago. The South does not need to rise again, we are still here and really, we have moved on. However, when I read Rhonda’s post, I just had to reply. Rhonda, what you posted is how I feel. As a born again believer, I do not discriminate against anyone. I don’t fly the Confederate flag out of respect for anyone who may feel it’s racist but I am no less proud of my heritage. I have friends and loved ones of all colors. And yes, I am Scots-Irish/Native American descent, with some English thrown into the mix. I have my roots deep down here in the south; some of my ancestors came off the boat at Jamestown. I grew up in the mountains of the Blue Ridge and am as country as they can come. With all that being said, the Confederate flag to most of those that do choose to fly it down here has nothing to do with racism: it is all about being (to quote Rhonda), “good ol’ corn bred bean fed, GOD fearin, family lovin, mud slingin, SOUTHERN COUNTRY” folks. So thank you Rhonda for being a voice of reason. Thank you Angry, for the history lesson. I love history of any era and I did appreciate the time you put into your blog post. I don’t think I agree with your comment about it being treason to fly the Confederate flag; however, I wonder how many people really read your blog before they started posting their own angry comments. I think many people just want a forum for posting nasty language in public. You said that private individuals have the right to fly anything they wish, you point was in that public building should not fly the Confederate flag. This would be up to the community of course, but if there are people that would be uncomfortable with the flying of the Confederate flag, our Southern sense of compassion would acquiesce to their request for keeping this out of public buildings. In my own home however, I think that after reading all this today, I am going to fly Ole’ Dixe high.
February 12, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Why is everyone crying about slavery? My grandparents, parents, and I never owned any slaves. And you have never been a slave. It is the past. Leave it there. The flag represents the south. I am proud to be from the south. It is no different than if I have a Louisiana flag flying in my yard or a Montana flag.
May 3, 2008 at 3:17 pm
The civil war was a issue to fight against tyranny. Not slavery! It was mostly unlawful taxes against the southern states that started the whole thing just like the revolution. We still have the problem even alot worst. But in today’s society we have to many cowards and to many of us are ignorant of the truth. The civil war was an attempt to free us from the tyrannical government. Although it was hard to see the tyrannical government during those days, but you can feel it now can’t you. In case you didn’t know. The Federal government is suppose to listen to the states of the union, not the other way around. The federal government and all its agencies (IRS, Homeland security) is not for the states but for federal jurisdiction (D.C., government employees, guam, ect.) Somehow we allowed the federal gov. to tell us the states how to run our juridiction. The reason why most of us has to pay income tax is because of jurisidiction. http://Famguardian.org you’ll learn alot.
Also the confederate flag is a christian symbol, for peace, love for God. So let it fly. If anything the stars and bars needs to come down. Under that flag had more slavery in all those years southern and union. Then again the 13 admendment freed the slaves but 14 admendment enslaved us all. Taxpayers are much worst the slaves. You have no say in your money. What is yours is actually owned by the government. “One who has the power to take is the rightfully owner”
May 8, 2008 at 1:20 am
I love the posts about the South being losers! I’ve got some stats for you arrogant Yankees… Yankees outnumbered Southerners 3:1 on the battlefield. Yankees had all of the resources. Southerners didn’t even have enough shoes to go around. End result: 360,000 dead Yankees. 260,000 dead Southerners. And that’s after 4 years of war. Is that really something to be proud of? By the way, Treason = Webster’s definition = The offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign’s family. The CSA was not attempting to overthrow the US government, only to exist as a separate country. That’s why nobody in the Confederate government was ever convicted of treason! Thomas Jefferson wrote in The Declaration Of Independence… That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Now listen to what Dishonest Abe said 13 years before the war… “Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movements.” ~ Lincoln January 12 1848
February 11, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Amen.
Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court on charging captured Confederate officers with treason:
“If you bring these leaders to trial it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion.”
February 11, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Personally I think the nickname “Honest Abe” was intended to be an ironic nickname. Like giving the biggest guy in your group the nickname Tiny. But eventually people forgot that.
Honest Abe was such a hated man that he won the presidency with 26% of the vote. Look it up if you don’t believe me. 74% of this country DID NOT WANT HIM.
May 9, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Jayson makes a good point. Also Licolin said 12 years before the Civil War that if men do not like there government that they have the right to make a new one that sutes them. To me the Confederate Battle Flag represents what my great-great-great-great-grandfather fought for. The grandfather im talkin about is the Confederate General George Pickett. My ancestor fought for the exact same pricipals that George Washington fought for. Some hight ranking Confederates like Robert E. Lee were against slavery. Lee said that “slavery is the moral and political evil of our time.” Stonewall Jackson was in favor of having black men fight in his ranks and they did in large numbers. There was anywhere from 60,000 to 93,000 black Confederate troops.
February 11, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Oh crap, Rob. You just let the cat out of the bag. I’m amazed the Yankees and African-Americans haven’t furiously attacked this comment yet.
From the Archived Union Records of the Civil War:
“They had twenty pieces of artillery, among which was the Richmond Howitzer Battery, manned by negroes.”
Source from Colonel John W. Phelps (1st Vermont Infantry):
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar&cc=moawar&idno=waro0004&node=waro0004%3A3&frm=frameset&view=image&seq=577
“There were also quite a number of negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day.”
Source from John G. Parkhurst (9th Michigan Infantry):
http://books.google.com/books?id=PvMUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA805&dq=war+of+the+rebellion+quite+a+number+of+negroes&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false
“We are not likely to use one negro where the rebels have used a thousand. When I left Arkansas they were still enrolling negroes to fortify the rebellion.”
Source from Major General Samuel R. Curtis (2nd Iowa Infantry):
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;q1=rebels%20have%20used;rgn=full%20text;idno=waro0019;didno=waro0019;view=image;seq=702;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset
“It had to be prosecuted under the fire of the enemy’s sharpshooters, protected as well as the men might be by our skirmishers on the bank, who were ordered to keep up so vigorous a fire that the enemy should not dare to lift their heads above their rifle-pits; but the enemy, and especially their armed negroes, did dare to rise and fire, and did serious execution upon our men.”
Source from Brigadier General D. Stuart (U.S. Army 4th Brigade and Second Division):
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;q1=rise%20and%20fire;rgn=full%20text;idno=waro0024;didno=waro0024;view=image;seq=0652
Excerpt from a Letter to President Abraham Lincoln:
“I do and have believed that we ought to use the colored people, after the rebels commenced to use them against us.”
Source from Thomas H. Hicks (United States Senator, Maryland):
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;q1=rebels%20commenced%20to%20use;rgn=full%20text;idno=waro0124;didno=waro0124;view=image;seq=780;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset
Excerpt from a Letter to President Abraham Lincoln:
“They [CSA] arm negroes and merciless savages in their behalf. Mr. Lincoln, the crisis demands greater efforts and sterner measures.”
-Richard Yates, Governor of Illinois
May 30, 2008 at 5:31 pm
You GO ANGRY you brut. You did give a lot of historical info for the ignoret to contemplate on ,give,em some more. Thumbs down to that flag anyhow D D CT.
February 4, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Huh?
February 4, 2010 at 5:25 pm
What?
February 11, 2011 at 1:01 pm
He’s trying to communicate with us. I can feel it.
June 3, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Here in Tampa, Florida, there has been an enormous debate on a 50′ Conf. Flag located off I-75. I passed it today coming home from work. It is awesome. I also work for Hillsborough County Gov. and once upon a time, our County uniforms had the Conf. flag on our County patch. It has been removed since I have been working there. I am from Tampa and growing up, the Conf. flag stood for southern pride and a war fought by ALL PEOPLE this means African Americans too, for FREEDOM, including SLAVERY. You know what I see really happening, WE ALL are loosing our FREEDOM. Thanks for letting me vent! Peace to all! 🙂
January 19, 2010 at 8:14 pm
it really is awesome, especially since they can’t take it down! it is on someones private property!
June 6, 2008 at 6:24 am
We should remove the Confederate flag when we ban the American flag for atrocities committed under it term like genocide of Native Americans and not providing equal treatment of minorities for over 100 years. It’s so easy to point out the inconsistencies of pc liberals.
February 4, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Yeah, they tend to be a little self-serving.
June 6, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Abraham Lincoln promised those who would vote for him,that he would raise the tariff tax on the Southern States,and he did just that.He raised them from 20% to 47%,in an effort to bankrupt the sotuhern economy,and to make them buckle to the “Union’ government.He,and his followers,are responsible for 600,000 deaths.Lincoln wanted to deport all of the recently”freed” slaves!That`s what the War For Southern Independence was about,not slavery!The Revolutionary War was fought over a 3% tax hike on tea!!!!!!!
January 15, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Lincoln was the devil, and Obama is to!
April 1, 2011 at 8:25 pm
I don’t know much about lincon but obama needs to get out of the white house before we shoot him because if he gets shot hell will break loose
June 6, 2008 at 4:47 pm
How many of you are aware the when the Trail of Tears (the removal of the Cherokee Nation)took place,that 30% of their population on the march were the Cherokee`s black slaves?We are,all of us,related to someone who has been a victim of slavery down through history,not just a select”privy” few.The Norhtern U.S. states were up to their ears in slavery also!The British Empire didn`t abolish all slavery until 1922,57 years after the War For Southern Independence!There were over a million white slaves in Northern Africa during the Atlantic slave trade years.They were captured and held along with black,middle eastern,asian,chinese,austrailian(aborigine),by the North Africans.Yes,their own people sold them into slavery, along with whatever other nationality they could capture for a profit!!!And that`s the “Un-Politically Correct” truth!!!The Klan never carried a Confederate Flag,they carried the American Flag.So we must demand that it`s racial and represents slavery too.Right?How about the cross being burned?Does this mean we must protest the Holy Cross on those grounds also?The lies really need to stop and true history taught to all of those who have been brainwashed by academia,the media and the parisitic activists who prey on the lies!!!!
June 25, 2010 at 7:10 pm
You don’t hear about white slavery in the U.S. and abroad. It existed. When it was abolished many poor white ex-slaves starved because instead of paying them a wage, they were replaced by black slaves. Their plight was then worse than that of slaves. They were even looked down on and ridiculed by the blacks. “Redshanks”, “Poor whites”, “Poor Backra”, “Backra Johnny”, “Ecky-Becky”, “Poor whites from below the hill”,”Edey white mice” or “Beck-e Neck” (Baked-neck). Historically everything besides “poor whites” were used as derogatory insults.I’m not talking indentured servitude. 9/10ths of the white slaves being brought to the Americas in the 17th century were slaves for life as were their children. We cannot change our past, we cannot undo the wrongs that were done, but we can CHOOSE TO LET THE PAST EITHER MAKE US BETTER OR BITTER – and THAT is our choice! Rise up and make today the best, because those that went before us made the path for us today. We must not let their suffering be in vain – we must let it make us better Americans, better humanity, and not languish in self-pity. Our ancestors didn’t – why should we?
February 11, 2011 at 1:08 pm
Actually it even goes farther than that…
“Of the 228 million white people in the US, 74 million have some form African ancestry, from less than 2% to more than 15%. There are only 40 million people who call themselves ‘African American’ although 114 million+ Americans actually have African ancestry.
The majority of the descendants of African slaves in the USA are white.”
June 6, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Darrel is a naive,uneducated “sheeple”.He portends that the Northern U.S. was totally void of any slavery.Wake up!Mush brain!Where do you think all the slave ships were built that sailed to North Africa,where they bought slaves ,of all etniticity,from the Black Slave Holders dummy?New York Harbor.New England,that`s where the slaves were imported to,and then sold to the highest bidders!
February 11, 2011 at 1:12 pm
The Yankees even kept shipping the slaves during the Civil War.
Hyp-o-crits
June 6, 2008 at 5:12 pm
My Great-Great Grandfather fought,and was a prisoner of war(horribly treated by the Union Army)and never has any slaves.So yes,I will honor his memory without your permission!As for the idiot who called Southerners “losers”,here`s a piece of hisotry for your dense brain.You can research all of the great battles of all of the wars we`ve been involved in,and you will find that Southern leaders blatantly outnumber any pansy Northerners in our victories.For the rest of your history lesson,there was no treasonous act in the legal secession of the Southern states from taxation without representation pea-brain!Its right there in the Declaration Of Independence,fool!
June 6, 2008 at 5:18 pm
“Dishonest Abe” was an anti-semite as well as a flaming racist.Look it up in our national archives.I get so tired of everyone referring to him as so kind of “savior,or saint of the blacks and the Union”Hogwash!He was out for himself like every other politician.
June 6, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Hey.Joe Carnahan.You need a lesson on which flag the kkk has always flown.It`s the American Flag,not the Cofederate Battle Flag.I`m not from Missouri,but you`re still going to have to “show me!”
September 20, 2009 at 10:31 am
dude u rock everything u said makes sense lol pretty much my whole family was from the south and im damn proud of it
June 25, 2008 at 9:43 am
That Aoc hit is a fucking retard it wasn’t about being racist and they wernt sissys or pussys they were people who actually fought for what they wanted you fucking asshole
July 25, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I think you saying that the confederate flag has nothing to do with racism is a bunch of crap because i live here in wisconsin and we have tons of faggy ass fake hicks that live here and i ask every one of the fags what the the flag that they are waving around means and every one replys to me that they hate black people which is load of shit so i have to explain to every one of them what it really means but they all reply to me then in the same way they all tell me that im not right and they it stands for supporting slavery which they have no idea because most of them cant even graduate from high school but in other words to alot of people especially here in the north for the fake hicks that have no souther back rounds all it means to them is racism so you cant tell me nor any one eles that the flag dosnt stand for racism because it does to alot of people
June 25, 2010 at 7:18 pm
They’ve been led to believe that by the american media, the same people who promote the racism. Wonder why?
January 23, 2011 at 11:30 am
i have a teenage son…a southern teenage son! he and a lot of his southern friends fly the confederate flag…they recently had a 19 yr old friend of theirs pass away and in memory of him, wrote his name on the back windshields of their trucks and flew the flag high!!! let me tell you about these boys, they are all in school, they all get good grades, they all have girlfriends that they treat well, they all have goals, they have never been arrested or in trouble, they are all there for each other like brothers, they are all GOOD kids!!! Now let me tell you what that flag means to them…it means that they are good ol’ country boys, corn bread bean fed, GOD fearin’ family lovin SOUTHERN COUNTRY boys and they are proud of it!!! they have black friends, they have white friends, they have mexican friends…they do NOT discriminate and they do not HATE!! but boy they sure are discriminated against!!! sure there are some ignorant people out there that will be racist and there are also ppl out there that will believe the confederate flag is racist, but that is their problem…their ignorance…! Everyone has a right to be proud of who they are and where they come from, and NO ONE has the right to take that away from them…whether you are black, white, brown, yellow, green, purple, or any other color under the sun that is your right!!! Here is the thing…if everyone just let everyone alone, minded their own business, and allowed people to their thoughts and feelings the world would be a happier place…!!!! when was the last time a thought actually did harm to anyone…when someone ACTS out in hate…then judge don’t just assume you know what they feel because they fly a certain flag!! you know what they say about ASSumptions, just because someone doesn’t like the way I think or feel won’t stop me from thinking it or feeling it and that is my GOD givin’ right! i would never tell anyone else how to feel why do other ppl think they have the right to tell someone else how to feel…THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ONE PERSON THAT IS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!think about it…you think your opinion is right, RIGHT??? and when someone opposes it, you get offended or at least feel the need to defend your opinion, correct??? well so does everyone else!!! see, a vicious circle!!! SO if you let me feel my way and i let you feel your way and no one says anything about it neither of us gets defensive no one gets hurt or angry or in a fight!!!!! how easy is that???? i don’t understand why ppl make things so complicated!!!!! I will continue to pray to GOD that people begin to realize the error of their own ways…and that they realize that just because someone flies a certain flag or likes a different ball team or listens to a different kind of music, it doesnt mean that that very same person would not stop to help anyone if they needed them too…i will pray that everyone learns to know the person behind the flag before they make the judgements because obviously everyone has a different meaning for the very same flag!!!!!
February 11, 2011 at 1:23 pm
I will admit that when a Damn Yankee co-opts the Southern people’s flag that they are probably racist.
Tell you what, if I ever see a Yankee with our flag, and he can’t tell me the name and unit of his Confederate ancestor…I’ll beat the ever loving crap out of him. Will that work?
August 24, 2008 at 12:31 pm
well now.. i dont know much about the KKK, and i do know some people see the confederate flag as racist.. but as far as retiring the rebel flag? im against that.. people have the right to do what they want, when they want, as long as it doesnt harm anyone else.. as far as flying the flag being treasonous.. your a frickin moron. the state of texas, used to be the COUNTRY of Texas.. also known as the independant republic of texas, and as such can cede from the union, or USA, any time it wants to, and theres not a damned thing the USA can do about it.. in the south, if they want to fly the rebel flag on gov’t property, let em.. does it hurt your fealings? are YOU being bigoted? hell, me and my boys downrange used to paint the rebel flag on APC’s and go into battle that way.. the south is the south.. we do what we want, when we want, how we want.. remember an ol’ Southern quote.. “Dont Tread on Me”
February 11, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Hey Kev, as a fellow Texan, that is actually a very popular Urban Legend thing. We actually don’t have a provision to secede. Of course, why would we have done that? It was already legal for any state to secede from the Union. It was actually the right to break up into 5 different states.
August 24, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Holy mother of pearl! Where to begin.
1. We fought a war over Texas’s right to secede. Those who argued for the right, lost the war. Issue settled. But for good measure, Texas signed documents saying it agrees with that law, before being readmitted to the union.
2. Hawaii and Vermont, and California, used to be countries, too.
3. My fealings are fine, but I wonder about your fealty.
4. “Don’t Tread On Me” on this continent, in this nation, arose during the American Revolutionary War, in New England. Texans know better than to steal New Englandisms and claim them for their own. You’re not from around here, are you.
February 4, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Gadsden’s flag (Don’t Tread On Me) was first attributed to Continental Colonel Christopher Gadsden who represented South Carolina at the Second Continental Congress in the fall of 1775. He presented one to the Continental Navy and one to his home state of SC. Oh yeah, Vermont was never a country. It went from being a French colony to being an English colony after the Seven Years War to a state after the revolution. No Kevin and I aren’t from around there. But if you want to know anything else about Newennlan just ask. Be more than happy to help you out.
August 27, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Slavery was already on its way out by the time the North declared an unconstituional war against the South. Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy stated that left to its own devices, slavery would have disappeared within 10 years. Only about 20% of the Southern population owned slaves. If the war was about slavery, why would the other 80% of Southerners fight for the rights of 20% of the population. West Virgina and Delaware did not “free” their slaves until after the War for Southern Independence ended. Ulysses S Grant did not free his slaves until after the war was over. When asked why he didn’t free them sooner, he stated, “who would have done all the work while I was gone?”
I now live in western Indiana and the “rebel flay” is seen very much around here. I personally am very offended when I see people, who live in a state that fought against my ancestor’s independance, flying the flag, or having a tag on the front of their vehicles, or on t-shifts, etc…and myself, born and raised in Alabama, would be ostrisized for being racist if I did the same thing there.
June 25, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Many “northern states” had been settled by southerners and had southern feelings about the war, but Lincoln was quick to occupy those states to prevent further secession.
July 3, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Folks — if you can get a copy of the Confederate Constitution. Jim is actually partially RIGHT. As I see it, there’s a clause that as written, bans slavery from any lands obtained by the CSA, and further banned the importation of more slaves into the current lands.
August 27, 2008 at 10:26 pm
***”Troy Fechhelm Says:
July 25, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I think you saying that the confederate flag has nothing to do with racism is a bunch of crap because i live here in wisconsin and we have tons of faggy ass fake hicks that live here and i ask every one of the fags what the the flag that they are waving around means and every one replys to me that they hate black people which is load of shit so i have to explain to every one of them what it really means but they all reply to me then in the same way they all tell me that im not right and they it stands for supporting slavery which they have no idea because most of them cant even graduate from high school but in other words to alot of people especially here in the north for the fake hicks that have no souther back rounds all it means to them is racism so you cant tell me nor any one eles that the flag dosnt stand for racism because it does to alot of people”***
Troy, I agree with you 100% This is exactly what I said. Talk to a southerner and they will tell you something completely different that a northern racist as to the meaning of the Confederate battle flag. Troy, don’t label all of us as racist, No, I don’t have a Confederate Battle flag in my front yard, but someone a couple blocks over from me does, and I live in Indiana now. I do submit though that the flag is part of my heritage and in such, I am proud to be a southerner.
August 29, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I SAY FLY THE CONFEDERATE FLAG CAUSE ITS OUR HERITAGE AND NOBODY LIKES IT……. LOOK THE OTHER WAY!!!!!!!!!
September 4, 2008 at 9:32 pm
In regard to the initial comment leading to this blog ( if you will ); on my behalf, I agree with EVERYTHING you said pertaining to history . I DO NOT agree that the Federal Government should be able to tell individual states what they can and can’t do ! Before the New Federal Government ( after 1865 ) before the Ratification of the 14th Amandment , each state was it’s own soviern entity. The right to Sescession was LEGAL in the Republican Constitution ( i.e. ; Before the war for Southern Indipendence ) When the “Rebel States” Legally Seceeded from the Union , it was the Federal Government who Visiously attacked my ancestors to prove superiority. They were Hipocrits and pirates ! It was NOT over slavery ; but Power ! It is apolling for me to try and comprehend that a so called “Free Country” should not be allowed to fly the flag of their states heritage where they ; in these respctable states , so choose . I only pray that our future President sees my views in the same light . On an ending note : Jefferson Davis was also in the process of freeing the slaves within the bounderies of the Honorable Confederate States of America ! I know deep in my heart if Jeff Davis’ boy’s would’ve won the war , things would be MUCH Better !!!!!
April 25, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Amen, Proud Southerner!
September 8, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Im from the North in Pennsylvania. To me the flag doesnt represent racism. My mom was from the South. I wear confederate stuff all the time but not because i think it means racism. My school and all other schools in the South, dont let us wear confederate flags. I think that is wrong. I am trying to change that by starting a petition that we should be able to wear confederate flag shirts, belt buckles, or whatever in our schools.
February 11, 2011 at 1:46 pm
That sucks. At my high school our mascot was a Rebel. The image of him was a burly Confederate holding the Confederate battle flag. So obviously, I did not have the problem you have.
September 27, 2008 at 10:05 pm
it makes me mad that we cant whare them to school to
September 27, 2008 at 10:07 pm
i got a nigger as a princple and he don’t like the confederate flag
June 25, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Bubba, many blacks fought for the Confederacy. Your principle has been misinformed about history.
October 4, 2008 at 8:56 pm
I’m a black female from Calvert County, MD., and my fiance experiences racism often. I must admit I feel very uncomfortable when Im around someone displaying a confederate flag.
September 20, 2009 at 11:20 am
don’t worry your president (he aint mine) will get rid of the freedom of speech so anyone who wears a confederate flag or talks freely will get a hand chopped off er something quit your whining
January 15, 2010 at 6:23 pm
exactly! yankees whine to much! can’t get em to shut up and listen. they are ignorant dummies.
June 25, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Q, I’m a white male from Texas, and experience racism often. From blacks! Where does this ridiculous cycle stop?
October 5, 2008 at 8:52 am
Bubba, preliminary research indicates that display of a Confederate battle flag damages one’s thinking ability, usually manifested in spelling and grammar.
June 25, 2010 at 7:41 pm
I so wanted you to misspell a werd. lol.
December 11, 2008 at 12:41 pm
This is complete nonsense. The Confederacy didn’t openly declare war on the United States. The Confederacy exercised their moral and legal right of secession, after which the NORTH declared war on the THEM.
As someone who supports a Democrat fascist, it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t have your facts straights.
January 11, 2010 at 7:02 pm
Right On! The Union where the first terrorists in history.
January 14, 2010 at 8:45 pm
The reasons there are so many misconceptions about the Confederate battle flag, slavery and why the Civil War was fought are many. First, history books are written by the winning side. The southern states that suceeded were well within their rights to do so. Our founding fathers made that clear. We were a union of states each having sovereignty over it’s laws and destiny. Quite different from the all-powerful federal government that imposes it’s will on all the states and it’s citizens today. The union was meant as a means to make us stronger as a whole, not to rule over us and dictate legislation and impose heavy taxes. That is what we fought the Revolutionary War to abolish. The War of Northern Aggression, as it was rightly referred to in the south, began by the north invading southern lands. And as many northern historians and special interest groups would have you believe, the primary reason was not slavery. The history of slavery in the U.S. is another misunderstood subject. I by no means support slavery of any peoples, but the concept of black slavery by evil southern whites who beat them into submission wasn’t the norm by any means. Northeners and free blacks also owned slaves. And being an expensive asset slaves were generally well cared for by most of their masters, especially by God fearing southerners. It may come as a suprise to some, but poor whites and white indentured servants (a form of slavery) worked the plantation fields alongside blacks. If you’re going to trash a flag that many southerners (blacks included) fought and died under, you’re trashing my heritage. It’s a free country as they say, but at least do your homework and know what the hell you’re talking about before you do and maybe that will prevent further misconceptions.
January 15, 2010 at 7:50 am
It would behoove you to read their own official Declaration of Causes of Seceding States.
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Georgia: . For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
December 12, 2008 at 6:54 am
tphilosophyol: The Confederacy began the secessions before the electoral college met to complete the election. At Fort Sumter, it was Confederates who launched the attack (I’m not swayed by the claim that the Confederate in charge actually was drunk, and so it shouldn’t count). An act of war is a constructive declaration of war; there are no fewer than 12 acts of war there on the part of the Confederacy before the Union ever did anything in self-defense.
Why do you support a fascist of any stripe?
January 15, 2010 at 6:27 pm
but Fort Sumter was in the CSA! they could do whatever they want to it!
February 11, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Federal forces were illegally occupying the sovereign state of South Carolina’s Fort Sumter AFTER SC had already seceded from the Union. The North sent down ships to reprovision this illegal occupation by foreign troops. Upon seeing this act of war South Carolina forces protected itself by firing upon the enemy forces. Not a single person was wounded during the entire event.
Yeah, you are a Yankee. Just twist the facts around and lie, lie, lie.
January 17, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Well I’m from NY & NC so this is a very controversial subject. People from NC say that it is “heritage” but not racist. NY says it is “hate” and is racist.
It is. No matter how you slice it.
It stood for the CONFEDERATE ARMY! Hence the term CONFEDERATE FLAG! Some people are just ignorant to its meaning but that is not an excuse if SO MANY PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED BY IT!
As far as the war goes I believe that the Union should have acted way earlier, but they would have been way out numbered due toslave owners forcing the slaves to be confederates.
I believe that in the end on judgement day, even though some say that the flag isn’t racist,that if you still “represent the Rebel Flag” you will rot in the bottom of hell with the rapist, murderers, and your beloved Confederate Army.
January 18, 2009 at 11:31 am
Where does Dante put traitors in the inferno? Oh yeah, that’s right, the 9th circle. Not in some happy place where they could celebrate their “heritage.”
August 23, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Wow you are a very angry soul… You sound like you received all your information from our government, so you must be from New York not North Carolina because if you were then you would know that black american men fought for the confedercy as free men. If you really are from North Carolina then you would be proud of the st. andrews battle flag of the confederate states. If your mind is made up about the confederate flag then so be it, but if you really want to know the truth then I shall show you the way… Please as an American stand with me and not against… Look up the southern states archives you will find free black american soldiers who fought for the same reasons the white american men did… Now here’s another one to look up, “Black Confederate Soldiers”…
January 14, 2010 at 8:56 pm
If people are offended by it, perhaps they should study history to see what it is that they are offended by. If they do the research in an objective light they wouldn’t be offended. What is offensive is a bunch of idiots spouting off at the mouth about something they know nothing about. I’d bet good money that the one’s whining about the Confederate battle flag have a long list of other bitches about subjects they are totally ignorant of.
January 25, 2009 at 9:09 pm
The flag was adopted as the state flag when Texas became the 28th state in 1845.
The blue stands for loyalty, the white represents strength, and the red is for bravery.
So although I wish it were the Texas flag has no trace to the Stars And Bars.
PS sorry to hear you like obama, and for all of you pukes who think that’s a “racist” remark it aint!!!!
Not that its anyone’s business Im Pro God Pro Life and Pro Gun, all of which mister obama sees differently than I!!!
January 25, 2009 at 10:34 pm
As far as I can see the only fascist on this thread is you ED, the BLATENT fact that you seem to be failing to grasp is at the time of the “acts of aggression” this was legally not US soil and the mere presence of US troops on Southern soil was an act of war.
Of course the idea that the federal soldiers were refusing to leave a sovereign soil may not matter to a person picks and chooses according to a personal preference what injustices to condemn and which not.
February 16, 2011 at 1:23 pm
As for all the idiots on here who condem me, my flag, and my beliefs.
Sic simper tyrannus, deo vindice
I am quite ready to seceede from the USSA
February 1, 2009 at 10:00 am
Those who attack the battle flag and the confederacy will later, and now, attack what’s left of the republic that Lincoln nearly killed.
Lincoln was a precursor to the ‘traitors within’ we face today.
When the Founders declared independence they were committing ‘treason’ against the king and England. When the southern states declared independence in an effort to escape the big govt. and taxation schemes of the Yankees they simply wanted the Yankee forts/troops off their lands.
Those people had not been indoctrinated in blind love/patriotism for the ‘united States’ as we have. They looked to their (nation)state first.
So when the tyrant Lincoln moved to reinforce Sumter he knew he would force the South’s hand and have his excuse for a war.
The major mistakes the South made was in not ordering Booth to shoot Lincoln in 1861 and those who put him in power, and in trying to fight a superior power by conventional means.
If we make the same mistakes this time we deserve to remain slaves.
Let history be what it is. We have bigger fish to fry right now.
Don’t understand? Start here:
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Then share and prepare.
January 14, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Well stated.
November 1, 2011 at 12:27 am
Either you people were born with no heart or you forget what freedom is suppose to be. African-American,blacks,Negroes who ever the hell are have been subjected to this second class conversation for 150 years. We do not trust white people to do the right thing. I expect white to keep making excuses for the behavior of other white people. We do not like the flying of the conf. flag not because of slavery, but because it was the symbol of jim crow in this country. It represented the worst that America had to offer second class citizenship and the terrorism that it created. Many Americans miss the good old days when America was great. It was not that good for citizens of color. When you are flying your flag remembering old glory. Remember the group of people who suffered through separate but equal where our constitutional rights were so called legally denied. Why should anyone care what a Black person think in this nation? It had really never mattered anyway.
February 1, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Based on the proposed argument you believe the federal govt is to take precedence over the authority of one of the several states. That very notion is contradictory to the Articles of Confederation, the true Constitution, and the Constitution of 1789/1791.
FYI, Meaning behind the Confederate Flag beyond states rights.
Pastor John Weaver is a native of Georgia, and a graduate from Bob Jones University where he earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Theology and attended graduate school. He has been in Christian ministry for over 30 years.
Pastor Weaver has traveled across America preaching and lecturing in churches, colleges and conferences. John Weaver is an expositor of God’s whole Word. His preaching style is in the tradition of those early American pastors whose pulpits were the cradle of America’s Christian Liberty.
For more information write:
TRUTH AND SOUTHERN HISTORY
P.O. BOX 6847
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(Permission granted to copy.)
Open your Bibles to the Book of Numbers Chapter 1. Numbers Chapter 1 and we will read some verses there and then in Chapter 2 as well. Numbers Chapter 1:52 – “And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents every man by his own camp and every man by his own standard throughout their hosts.” Note that phrase, “Every man by his own standard throughout their hosts.” Now look in Chapter 2:2. “Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch his own standard or banner or flag with the ensign, banner or flag, of their father’s house far off about the Tabernacle of the Congregation shall they pitch. And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies; and Nahshon, the son of Amminadab shall be Captain of the Children of Judah.” Notice if you would please, in verse 10, “On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur.” Note on the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben. Look in verse 17, “Then the tabernacle of the congregation shall set forward with the camp of the Levites in the midst of the camp: as they encamp, so shall they set forward, every man in his place by their standards. On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies: and the captain of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud.” Then verse 25, “The standard of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies. And the captain of the children of Dan shall be Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai.” And then verse 31, “And they that were numbered in the camp of Dan were an hundred thousand and fifty and seven thousand and six hundred. They shall go to hindmost with their standards.” Then verse 34, “And the children of Israel did according to all that the Lord commanded Moses so they pitched by their standards and so they set forward every one after their families according to the house of their fathers.
Let me begin by asking a simple question. Why in the world is there so much fuss over a flag? Is a standard, a banner, and ensign, or a flag worth fighting about? Everyone knows that a flag is a symbol. It represents something. But what is it a symbol of and what does it represent? If you will study your Bible you will find that our English word “flag” does not occur in our Bibles, except to refer to “the reeds” or more specifically the “paper I plant that dwells by the riverside.” But if you will take the time to go through a concordance you will find that the word “banner,” the word “standard,” the word “ensign” occurs frequently over and over. I want you to see by way of introduction tonight the importance of a flag or the importance of a standard. You see, when the children of Israel were encamped in the wilderness they camped everyone under their own standard. Do you realize that they were centered around that Tabernacle according to their standards as well? If you will look back in your Bibles to the Book of Numbers 2:2. Note this statement: “Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard. So evidently a tribe had its own standard, with the ensign of their father’s house. So there were not only tribal standards, there were also family standards, so usually then, each family carried two banners – one for their tribe and one for their father’s house. And of course, all of these families in Israel, all of the tribes then were centered around that tabernacle. When they marched, they marched according to the order that God gave. Now there were four leading tribes: the Tribe of Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan. Now according to tradition, the standard of the Tribe of Judah had a Lion on it. Hence we know Christ as the “Lion of the Tribe of Judah.” That of the Tribe of Rueben had the likeness of a man’s head. That of the Tribe of Ephraim had the figure of an ox and that of the Tribe of Dan had the symbol of an eagle. If you will study the book of Ezekiel, you will find the four living creatures there that Ezekiel saw had the faces of these four standards that are mentioned here in the Book of Numbers, Chapter 2.
Now I want you to turn in your Bibles to Psalm 20:5. The Word of God says this: “We will rejoice in thy salvation and in the name of our God we will set up our banners. The Lord fulfill all thy petitions.” So banners or flags then have a religious significance. Here is the importance of a banner: we set it up in the name of our God. It represents our theology. It represents our Christianity. Look in your Bibles to Psalm 60:4. Note how plain the Bible is here. Psalm 60:4: The Word of God says, “Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee that it may be displayed because of thy truth.” So God then gives us a banner that we might display that banner. Why? Because of the truth. Not because of error, not because of anything else, but because of the truth. Now go back in your Bibles to the Book of Exodus 17:15. You are going to be surprised when you find one of the names of God mentioned here in the Bible. Exodus 17:15, “The Children of Israel had fought against the Amalikites and had won.” God had given them the victory. Exodus 17:14: Note what God tells Moses. “And the Lord said unto Moses write this for a memorial in a book and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under Heaven. And Moses built an altar and called the name if it Jehovah-nissi. Jehovah-nissi. For he said because the Lord had sworn that the Lord would have war with Amalek from generation to generation.” Now note Moses built an altar and called the name of it Jehovah-nissi. Jehovah-nissi means “the Lord our banner.” In other words God is the banner of His people. The name of God is associated with the warfare of His people. So a flag then is not just given to us for the truth, but God Himself is said to be our flag, our banner. Look in your Bibles at the Book of Isaiah 59:19. Here is a very powerful verse. Look in Isaiah 59:19. Note, if you would this verse: “So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the West and His glory from the rising of the Sun when the enemy shall come in like a flood, the spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard or banner against him.” Did you hear what I just read? When the enemy shall come in like a flood then the spirit, that is the third person of the Trinity, then the Holy Spirit shall lift up a standard against him. Now let me ask you a question. If the Holy Spirit is lifting up a banner, if he is lifting up a standard against the enemies of God’s people, what standard or what banner is he lifting up? Look in your Bibles to Isaiah 11:10 and you will find out. Note if you would please, what the Word of God says concerning Christ, “And in that day there shall be root of Jesse which shall stand for an ensign or a flag of the people and to it shall the Gentiles seek and his rest shall be glorious.” So when the enemies of the Lord come in like a flood, the Spirit of God lifts up a standard against them and that standard is Jesus Christ! So God the Father is said in the scripture to be our banner. God the Son is said in the scripture to be our banner. I don’t know about you, but I believe God places a great deal of importance upon banners and flags and ensign in the Word of God.
No one can deny the importance of a standard based upon the Word of God. But what about the Confederate Flag? Is the Confederate Flag a Christian symbol? Interestingly, when one mentions the Confederate Flag, usually what comes up in someone’s mind is the battle flag as we see right here. I want you to know tonight that there were numerous Confederate Flags. This is the battle flag. Let me just point out the fact that there were five major flags. There were many, many more, but the first flag that I want to point out is the Bonnie Blue flag which was a solid blue flag with a single star right in the middle. Now the Bonnie Blue flag was the unofficial flag of the Confederate States of America. It was never officially adopted, but it was an extremely popular flag and there is a song written about it from that period. Then secondly, there is what is known as the first “National Flag”, which is sometimes called the Stars and Bars. Now there is a problem, and I am going to deal with it a little bit later. But the Stars and Bars looked a lot like the Stars and Stripes, and there was a conflict because of that. Then thirdly, there was the second “National Flag”, which is referred to as the stainless banner. It just had this symbol in the upper left-hand corner and then it was pure white; it was silk. The only problem with the stainless banner was when the wind was not blowing and it was folded, it sometimes looked like a flag of truce, or a flag of surrender. And then fourthly, we have the third “National Flag” and that was the same stainless banner but with a solid red bar all the way down it and that is the one that is usually flying today. It was officially adopted, but very few of them were issued. And then of course, we have the Confederate Battle Flag as we know it. Interestingly enough, the first four flags are very rarely spoken against because most people don’t even know about their existence, and they are totally absolutely ignorant of them and so consequently it is the battle flag that catches most of the flak.
So let me begin tonight with some negatives. I want to tell you what the Confederate Battle Flag does not represent! I want to tell you what it does not symbolize and I want you to hear me very carefully, because I am going to give you the historical proof for what I am going to say. First of all, the Confederate Battle Flag is not a racist flag. I can hear it now though, “Brother Weaver, don’t you know that the Ku Klux Klan uses the Confederate Battle Flag, and don’t you know that the white supremacists groups use the Confederate Flag, and don’t you know the hate groups use the Confederate Flag?” Yes, I know this. But I also know that they use the Stars and Stripes and I also know they even use the Christian flag as well. Let me ask you a question. Why are not the Stars and Stripes and Christian flag considered racist flags as well? I mean if someone is going to be guilty by association, or if something is going to be guilty by association, I can show you pictures of the KKK marching in Washington, D.C. and there was not one Confederate Flag amongst them. They are all carrying the Stars and Stripes, the U.S. Flag! If we are going to condemn the flag because the KKK and the white supremacists and the hate groups use it, let’s condemn all the flags. Be consistent! Condemn the Stars and Stripes. Condemn the Christian flag. Let me ask you another question, just to show you the absurdity of this position. Do you realize that the Darlington 400 for years used a picture of the Confederate Flag on its billboard and advertised itself as the Rebel Raceway? Does that mean that anyone who attends the Darlington 400 is a racist? What about the Scottish soldiers? I’ll explain this a little bit later. Even today Scottish Soldiers who were in the British Army wear the cross of Saint Andrews. Does that mean that all Scottish soldiers are racist as well?
Let me show you the enmity and the hatred and the venom that is being spoken against this flag and I am going to tell you why before I close tonight. I found a website and the name of the website was basically, “The Confederate Flag Must Go!” and it was put there by Jack Crawford, who evidently is a black man based upon his other writings, and here is what he said. I am quoting him verbatim, I took it off his website. He says this, “The Confederate flag is a well recognized international symbol of racism, slavery, hatred, murder and white supremacy. It should be outlawed, not just banned. Anyone flying it should be corrected in a manner that is usually reserved for overseers, slave masters, and leaders of lynch mobs responsible for the murder of children. Am I clear?” So what does Mr. Jack Crawford say? He says anyone who flies this flag ought to be condemned to death. That is basically what he is saying. What would you do to a murderer who formed a lynch mob and hung a child? Well, very clearly you would see that he got the death penalty. Well that is what he is saying. Now let me just tell you very quickly, Mr. Crawford’s statement is unhistorical. It is unconstitutional and it is untrue. Do you realize that most attackers of the flag are either motivated by historical ignorance or pure unadulterated malice toward the South, its symbols, its heritage and its people? In 1994, a Harris Poll found that two-thirds of black Americans had no problem with the Confederate Flag. No problem at all! Why in the world make the flag an issue? In fact, there are numerous black Americans that speak out for the Confederate Flag. Let me give you one of them. R.J. Wilkins of Miami, Florida, had this to say. They were flying the Confederate Flag at the capitol in Tallahassee, Florida, and he wrote this: “I am a black man who is not offended by the flying of the Confederate Flag beside the Capitol in Tallahassee, Florida. The Confederate Flag is as much a part of my history as it is of any white person. It may not represent the best of my race, or be held by some as a contribution to this country’s greatness, but it does to me. My great grandparents were a part of the plantations. They worked the cotton fields, cleaned the big houses and in many ways supported the development of American society. We should let the Confederate Flag fly as a reminder of our American history both black and white.” But let me tell you something. You want to hear a black man speak out and speak the truth? Let me give you a quote that W. Earl Douglas gave. He was a black journalist in Charleston, South Carolina, and he is now dead, but here is what he said concerning the Confederate flag, ”If hate had been the prevailing emotion between the races, then it is a safe bet that the Confederacy would have never been born.” Did you hear what he said? If hate had been the prevailing emotions between the blacks and the whites in the South, he is saying it’s a safe bet that the Confederacy would have never, ever been born. I continue, ”Fortunately,” he says, ”There was love, understanding, and compassion.” Now listen to what this black man says. ”And the two greatest lies ever perpetrated by history are, number one, that the South instigated the war, and number two, that it was fought by the North for the purpose of freeing the slaves! The Negro was merely used as the excuse for that War while the real reason for it is reflected in every area of our lives where the tentacles of government form the bars of a new slavery. No! Don’t furl that Confederate Battle Flag. Let it wave all across the South to remind Americans that there exists here a yearning for liberty, freedom, and independence that will not be denied. Let it fly as a testimonial to real men and real women who would rather work and fight and shed tears than to beg the government for charity.” He understood, folks. He had more sense and more knowledge than most people today.
You see the Confederate Battle Flag is not a racist symbol and it never has been. One of my favorite stories is about a black representative, John F. Harris, who was a legislator in Washington County, Mississippi. And he had the opportunity to vote for Senate Bill #25, which was a bill to erect a Confederate Monument on the Capitol Square in Jackson, Mississippi. Now the bill did pass and Mr. Harris, who was sick and got out of his bed to give his speech before the Senate, did so and, on February 23, 1890, the Daily Clarion Ledger of Jackson, Mississippi printed his speech in full. Let me read a portion of it to you. He says, ”Mr. Speaker, I have arisen here in my place to offer a few words on the bill. I have come from a sick bed. Perhaps it was not prudent for me to come, but Sir I could not rest quietly in my room without contributing a few remarks of my own. I was sorry to hear the speech of the young gentlemen from Marshall County. I am sorry that any son of a soldier should go on record as opposed to the erection of a monument in honor of their brave dead. And Sir, I am convinced that had he seen what I saw at Seven Pines and in the seven days fighting around Richmond, the battle field covered with the mangled forms of those who fought for their country and for their countries honor, he would not have made that speech. When the news came that the South had been invaded, those men went forth to fight for what they believed. And they made no requests for monuments. But they died and their virtues should be remembered. Sir, I went with them. I too wore the Grey. The same color my master wore. We stayed four long years and if that war had gone on until now, I would have been there yet. I want to honor those brave men who died for their convictions. When my mother died I was a boy. Who Sir, then acted the part of a mother to the orphaned slave boy but my old misses. Was she living now or could speak to me from those high realms where gathered the sainted dead, she would tell me to vote for this bill and, Sir, I shall vote for it. I want it known to all the world that my vote is given in favor of a bill to erect a monument in honor of the Confederate dead.” Here was a man, a black man, who wore the Confederate gray and he understood the War was not a racist War. Now, let me tell you, the Confederate Flag is not a racist flag.
But, now wait, if you want racism, if you want hatred, if you want white supremacy, I will tell you where to find it – under the Stars and Stripes, the U.S. Flag. Not under the Confederate Flag. Do you realize the Emancipation Proclamation was signed on January 1, 1863? On August 14, 1862, less than five months before the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, Abraham Lincoln invited a number of leading blacks to the White House to give them his words of wisdom and to demonstrate to them why he was attempting to colonize them back in Africa. By the way, Lincoln’s Negro policy was to send them all back to Africa. That was his policy. William Seward, William Stanton, all of them wanted the same thing. And so he invited these Negroes to come to the White House to hear his words of wisdom, and I am quoting verbatim what Lincoln said. Listen carefully, he says, “Why should people of your race be colonized and where? Why should they leave this country? This is perhaps the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss. But this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both as I think. Your race suffers very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this is admitted it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. You are free men here I suppose. Perhaps you have been long free, all of your lives. Your race is suffering, in my judgment, the greatest wrong inflicted on any people, but even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with a white race. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of our race.” – Abraham Lincoln. Let me translate that: Blacks aren’t equal to Whites, never will be. That is what he just got through saying. Listen to what Lincoln said in a speech in Charleston, Illinois, 1858. Lincoln said, “I am not now nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or the political equality of a White and Black races. I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and black races, which will forever forbid the two races from living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man.” – Abraham Lincoln. You see the Confederate flag has never stood as a racist symbol. If you want racism, you go to the Stars and Stripes. In the South, although there was separation, the blacks respected the whites and the whites respected the blacks. And I will tell you this, there was no trouble in the South back then nor in the 1960’s until the North came down and started stirring up trouble. So the Confederate flag is not a racist flag. Secondly tonight, the Confederate flag is not a flag of slavery. It does not represent slavery. Are you listening to me tonight? There was not one slave ever brought into this country under the Confederate flag. Every slave that was brought into this country was brought in by Northern ships under the Stars and Stripes. There was not even a slave brought into this country on a Southern vessel! The slaves were brought into this country on Northern vessels under the Stars and Stripes.
Did you know that out of the 224 years that slavery was legal in this country, only four of those years did the Confederate Battle Flag fly? And by the way, there were slaves in this country in 1620. What flag flew over the country more than any other flag during those 224 years? It was the Stars and Stripes. It wasn’t the Confederate Battle Flag. It was the Stars and Stripes! Why hate and attack the Confederate Flag? I mean, if you want to hate a flag of slavery then you ought to hate the Stars and Stripes! And if you want to hate another flag of slavery, why not hate the British flag? Did you know that England was responsible for taking five million blacks from Africa and selling them to every country under the sun? If you want to hate a flag, why not hate the Dutch flag or the Portuguese flag, or the Spanish flag? They sold slaves. And if you want to hate a flag today, how about hating the Muslim flags because even today the Muslims are still involved in slavery! I mean let’s be honest. Now if you want to believe that the War of 1861 to 1865 was over slavery, I can show you two things that ought to forever correct your thinking in that area: The War was not over slavery. Slavery has only been made an issue by the liberal revisionists. It was not an issue. Let me prove to you just by two simple statements. I will give you more, but let me prove to you that the War was not fought over slavery, and therefore, this flag could never ever have represented slavery. You see Abraham Lincoln proposed a thirteenth amendment in March of 1861. It is the only proposed constitutional amendment that was signed by a sitting President. It bears Abraham Lincoln’s signature. Here was Abraham Lincoln’s proposed thirteenth amendment: “No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give Congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person’s held to labor or service by laws of said State.” Did you hear that? Lincoln’s proposed thirteenth amendment said Congress shall not have the power to interfere with any institutions within any state including those held to labor or service by the laws of that State. In other words, what Abraham Lincoln was saying to the South, if you will accept this proposed thirteenth amendment, you may forever keep slaves. Folks, Beauregard never fired on Fort Sumter until April 9. This was in March of 1861! If the War had been about slavery and if the South wanted just to keep slaves and that was it, why fire a gun? Why fire a shot? Just simply accept his proposed thirteenth amendment and it would all be over. This resolution was passed unanimously by Congress on July 23, 1861. You may read it for yourself in the Congressional Record. Here is what this resolution says: “The War is waged by the government of the United States not in the spirit of conquest or subjugation, nor for the purpose of overthrowing or interfering with the rights or institutions of the states, but to defend and protect the Union.” Congress said the War is not about slavery! I will even give you a thirteenth amendment that will allow you to make slavery permanent.
You see what was happening was this: There are a lot of issues and I can’t cover them all tonight, but one of the issues was an economic issue. Do you realize the South, before the War, was extremely wealthy? And the South before the War funded probably 75 to 80% of all the taxes. But the North wanted a 40% tariff. The south said no. The most we will ever agree to is a 10% tariff. And what Lincoln and the radical republicans were doing was this: They were saying we would give you the thirteenth amendment. We will let you keep your slaves if that is what you want. You just let us keep our tariffs. In other words, the North was willing to sell the blacks out for money, for higher taxes! They could care less. You see, Hapgood’s book, Abraham Lincoln, The Man of The People, on page 273, quotes Abraham Lincoln as saying, “If I could save the Union without freeing any of the slaves I would do it.” Abraham Lincoln later said that slaves are property and if freed they should be paid for. Later on Lincoln said, “I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so and I have no inclination to do so.” Now here Lincoln is acknowledging that he has no lawful right to interfere with slavery. Slavery, by the way, was constitutional. All thirteen colonies agreed on it and by the way, in 1776, all thirteen colonies held slaves, not just the South, all of them! Lincoln said, “I have no lawful right to interfere nor,” he says, “do I have an inclination to do so.” In a letter to Alexander Stevens who happened to be later the Vice President of the Confederacy, Lincoln wrote and said this, “Do the people of the South really entertain fear that a Republican administration would directly or indirectly interfere with their slaves, or with them about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you that once, as a friend, and still I hope not as an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington.” So once again, Lincoln is saying it’s not over slavery.
You say, but Brother Weaver, Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. And the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves. No it didn’t. The Emancipation Proclamation did not free one slave! Do you know what Abraham Lincoln tried to do with the Emancipation Proclamation? In fact he says so himself and so do other men in his Cabinet. They say that the Emancipation Proclamation was a war measure. Lincoln, number one, wanted to keep England specifically, and the rest of Europe particularly from joining in with, or recognizing the Confederate states of America. That was his first goal in the Emancipation Proclamation. His second goal was another war measure, in the sense, he was hoping that the blacks in the South would rise up in rebellion against their white masters and the white people. Let me tell you something, just to show you there was no trouble in the South – there was not one rebellion during that war of black folks. Do you realize a thousand torches in a thousand black hands would have emptied the Confederate armies, because the men would have gone home to protect their families? And Lincoln knew that. You see what Lincoln did was this. Now listen to me. Lincoln tried to free the slaves in the South where he had absolutely no authority and he refused to release the slaves in the North where he did have authority. Did you know that in the Northern armies even when they were fighting the South there were over 300,000 slaveholders in the Northern armies? Did you know that General Robert E. Lee before the war ever began, when he inherited some slaves freed them? General Ulysses S. Grant, who was the main General of the North and afterwards became President, even after the war was over, kept his slaves. And he did so with this excuse: good help is hard to find. You see the truth of the matter is this: the Emancipation Proclamation was not only unconstitutional, and everybody recognized it, it cost the Republicans a lot of elections. There were five Northern states that refused after that to elect Republicans to Congress. And moreover, there were a lot of Union soldiers that deserted because of it and refused to fight. Slavery was not the issue. Slavery has never been the issue until recently, until political revisionists and the political correct people wanted to make it the issue.
There have been numerous warnings down through history concerning our flag and concerning our heritage and our culture. One of those warnings came from General Patrick Cleburne. I want to read to you what General Patrick Cleburne said in January of 1864. And he was warning the South in regards to subjugation. You talk about a prophet, listen carefully. General Cleburne said this: “If the South lost it means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy. That our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will learn from Northern school books their version of the war, will be impressed by all of the influences of History and Education to regard our gallant debt as traders and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.” Folks let me tell you that is exactly what has happened in this country. You pick up any textbook that you want to pick up and it will just simply say, the War was over slavery, the North was right and the South was wrong. And most folks believe that junk. They have been taught it. The War was not over slavery, not over slavery at all. One of my favorite stories is about a reconstructed Southerner who ran into Mildred Lewis Rutherford. Mildred Lewis Rutherford was one of the finest Southern Historians that you could ever come across. I believe she died in 1928. But this one reconstructed Southerner said to Mrs. Rutherford, he said, “My father was a Confederate soldier, but had he lived, I am sure he would have regretted having fought for the wrong side.” To which Mrs. Rutherford replied: “Far more probably he would have regretted having a son so disloyal to the principals for which he was willing to give his life”. The Confederate flag is not a racist flag. The Confederate flag is not a flag of slavery.
Now here is the third thing I want to teach you tonight, and I want you to listen carefully: The Confederate flag is a Christian flag and it represents freedom from tyranny. The Confederate Battle Flag as we know it, really did not come into existence, or I should say, into full-blown presence until after First Manasses, July 21, 1861. Most of you know, or at least you should know, that the South and the North called their battles by different names. So it’s either First Manasses or First Bull Run depending on what section of the country you are from. But during that battle the Confederate Battle Flag was the Stars and Bars, and the Stars and Bars was very easily confused with the Stars and Stripes, not only at a distance, but also especially under battle conditions. And you have got to remember all of the smoke that those black powder rifles and cannons made at that particular time. It was during this battle that General Beauregard was observing the battle and he sees a large body of troops moving toward the union right flank. And Beauregard tried and tried to make out the flag and to see if it was a Northern flag or Southern flag, and he just simply could not make it out. So he called some of his young lieutenants up and he said, “Tell me, is that our flag or is that their flag?” They could not make it out either. So he stood there very cautiously trying to determine whose flag it was, what group was there. And all of a sudden a little puff of wind came and it unfurled and he could see that it was the Stars and Bars and he cried, “The day is ours. Attack! Attack!” And with that, of course they won the day and the Yankees literally threw down their weapons and ran all the way back to Washington, D.C. Later Beauregard wrote “At the Battle of Manassas I found it difficult to distinguish our then Confederate flag from the United States flag, the two being so much alike especially when General Jewel A. Early made the flight movement that decided the fate of the day. So Beauregard said, “I couldn’t tell if it was ours or theirs.” Then he wrote “I resolve to have our flag changed or to adopt for my command a battle flag, which would be entirely different from any state or federal flag. Beauregard later said after the War, “After the battle it was found that many persons in both armies firmly believed that each side had used as a strategy the flags of his opponents.” So the North thought the South was using its flag and the South thought the North used our flag trying to confuse us. Thus Beauregard ordered a totally different flag to be carried into battle. There were two designs, one by Colonel Walton and one by Colonel Miles. Colonel Walton’s flag had a Latin cross on it and Colonel Miles’ flag had the “X” or the St. Andrews cross on it. And Beauregard chose the one with the Saint Andrews cross.
Now let me tell you that Andrew was the first disciple of Jesus Christ. He became a follower of Jesus Christ and preached relentlessly the Gospel of Christ. He not only preached in many of the Asiatic nations, he preached in Russia. Andrew was crucified around 69 AD in Patria, Greece. Unlike Christ, who was crucified on a Latin cross, Andrew was crucified on the Andrews cross. It looks like an X. And the reason he was crucified like that was by his own request. He did not believe himself worthy to be crucified as Christ was crucified. So he talked his prosecutor and persecutor into crucifying him on the X shaped cross instead of having his hands nailed to the cross as Christ was. He had his persecutor tie him to the cross even though he knew that he would suffer longer and deeper pain and agony. You have got to remember Andrew was approximately 90 years old when this was being done. For three days he hung on that cross, preaching to everyone who came by while he had breath. Finally, so many of the people were impressed by his preaching, they went and asked that Andrew be cut down from the cross and allowed to live. The powers at be consented and they went and cut Andrew down and as they cut the rope he fell to the ground dead. He died as a martyr for Jesus Christ. Andrew became the patron Saint not only of Russia, but also of Scotland.
Did you know that in the 1800’s about 75% of the South were either Scotch or Scotch-Irish? The Confederate Battle Flag is based upon the national flag of Scotland. The national flag of Scotland is the cross of Saint Andrew and the cross of Saint Andrew is a symbol of the Christian faith and the heritage of the Celtic race. In fact, another name for the Confederate Battle Flag is the Southern Cross. It was adopted consciously, purposefully, deliberately and premeditatedly in order to display faith in the sovereign God of heaven and earth, faith in the providence of that God, the God of history and the God of salvation. How can I say that? Did you know that the Confederate Constitution recognized the sovereignty of the Providence of God? Let me read to you the preamble, it goes like this: “When the people of the Confederate States, each state acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity invoking the favor and guidance of almighty God do ordain and establish this constitution for the Confederate States of America.” Even the Confederate States motto, “Deovendickia,” (The Lord is our Vindicator), illustrates the sovereignty and the righteousness of God. The Saint Andrews cross is also known as the Greek letter CHIA (KEE) and has historically been used to represent Jesus Christ. Why do you think people write Merry X-mas, just to give you an illustration? The “X” is the Greek letter CHIA and it has been historically used for Christ. Moreover, its importance was understood by educated and uneducated people alike. When an uneducated man, one that could not write, needed to sign his name please tell me what letter he made? An “X,” why? Because he was saying I am taking an oath under God. I am recognizing the sovereignty of God, the providence of God and I am pledging my faith. May I tell you the Confederate Flag is indeed a Christian flag because it has the cross of Saint Andrew, who was a Christian martyr, and the letter “X” has always been used to represent Christ, and to attack the flag is to deny the sovereignty, the majesty, and the might of the Lord Jesus Christ and his divine role in our history, culture, and life. Moreover, let me tell you this. That Confederate Flag today represents the valiant and courageous Confederate soldiers who died and gave their lives for the principles for which they fought. General Beauregard had one of the three first original Confederate Battle Flags. On May 28, 1883, he donated that flag to the Louisiana Washington artillery. Beauregard was unable to be there but Colonel Walton was and he accepted the flag for Beauregard and here is what he said: “In the name of General Beauregard, under whose eyes you first went under fire at Manasses, I have the honor to present to you this sacred emblem of Southern valor and patriotism.” Said Judge Alfred Roman. “Its colors are yet as fresh as when it received the parting look of its fair maker. Its value is enhanced by the fact that the upper portion of its staff is made of a piece of a flagstaff of Fort Sumter, shot down by the Confederate gunners in April 1861. Gunners, who, by the way, were under the command of General Beauregard. Unsoiled though it is by the smoke of battle, it was none the less, born in war and the breeze first kissed it in the tented field. It is the genuine model of the glorious flag around which all of us fought and so many of us bled and so many of us fell.” What did he say? It is a symbol of Southern valor and patriotism.
Now let me try to answer a question for you. Why attack the Confederate Battle Flag? Why attack Confederate symbols? Let me tell you something. Whenever the Confederate Battle Flag is attacked, and the attacks are so vicious and so ferocious, it is because it is an attack on the truth. Because the South was not fighting as a racist nation or as a slave holding nation, they were fighting for constitutional rights. They were fighting for State’s rights. Did you know that there were many in the South when it came to adopting a flag, that said, “Let’s take the Stars and Stripes”? Why? Because we are the ones that are remaining true to the Constitution. Let them adopt another flag because they are untrue! To attack the flag is a attack on political incorrectness. The flag represents those who are opposed to unlimited federal government. The flag represents a limited Constitutional republic. A view of government opposed to the powers that be. Let me tell you something folks, all one has to do is to look at present day Washington, D.C., to know exactly what our forefathers fought against. Two hundred and fifty thousand Confederate soldiers gave their lives to prevent from having what we have today! The extension of government into every area of our lives is a result of the fact that the South lost the war. To attack the flag is to attack the truth, which the flag represented. The Confederate Flag not only represents a limited view of government, but it also represents freedom from tyranny. It represents freedom from tyrannical governments. I don’t know how many of you will remember this, I know many of you saw it on TV, when the Berlin Wall was being torn down. Do you remember what was flying over the Berlin Wall? The Confederate Battle Flag waved as the wall was being torn down. Did you know that the Confederate Battle Flag has been adopted and used by the people of Poland, Hungry, the Ukraine, Lithuania, and East Germany, as they were victorious over the Union of the Soviets? Even Quebec in more recent years used the battle flag as a symbol of its independence in trying to secede from Canada. Historically, everyone understands that the Confederate Battle Flag represents liberty and freedom and independence from tyranny. The Confederate Flag represents truth against error, freedom against tyranny, light against darkness and the Kingdom of Christ against the Kingdom of Governance. You see, we have forgotten the fact that the War of Northern Aggression was a cultural war. It was a religious war and the North was predominantly Unitarian and humanist, while the South was predominantly Christian. And in reality, the War was an attempt to crush Christianity and Christian culture.
Now, why must the flag be attacked? Why must the flag be destroyed? Why must Confederate symbols and monuments and heritage be defamed, destroyed and derided? I’ll tell you why. Because if we are allowed to keep our symbols, we might just one day begin to inquire into the origin and meaning of those symbols. And in so doing, begin to questions the myths and the propaganda of the political correctness that’s in our country today and as we see the truth, we might actually begin to stand for the principles for which our forefathers stood and fought. And my, would that cause problems for the present day administration and the present day Socialist program. Now listen to me folks, in order to keep a people enslaved and content in the present, you must destroy their past. A people, who have no past, will have no future. The attacks today, are attacks against the truth. What you and I need to do is this: we need to study our history. We need to study our heritage. We need to come back to the basics. We need to come back to our Christian roots. I want you to turn in your Bibles to Jeremiah 6. Let me close with this verse. Jeremiah Chapter 6:16, “Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way and walk therein and you shall find rest for your souls, but they (the wicked people) said, We will not walk (therein.)” What did God say? God said, “Stand in the ways and see and ask for the old paths, wherein is the good way.” Let me tell you something folks, I would trade the culture we have today in a heartbeat for the culture that the South had before the War of Northern Aggression. I would trade the character that men have today for the character that men had before the War of Northern Aggression in a heartbeat. I would trade the morality today for the morality that was in the South before the War of Northern Aggression. We better stand in the way and soon ask for the old ways, which is the good way. We not only need to keep our symbols, we need to defend their principles and apply those principles in our present day life.
By Pastor John Weaver
January 19, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Amen to that! I agree with everything you said!
April 25, 2010 at 9:44 pm
too lazy to read it
November 1, 2011 at 12:47 am
This is the kind of nonsense that Negroes have had to endure sense they were first brought here. We are caught in the middle of two fools. To say we had nothing to do with your arrival, but we will accept the labor is the statement of a idiot. At least Lincoln was honest about his feelings-you have to respect that. But Negroes did not create the myth of Lincoln-this too was done by whites. Through all your bible verses. You forgot to mention do unto others as you will have them to do unto you. This whole argument is the systemically denial of rights to a group of people who were born on this soil. It has nothing to do with the flying of a flag. It was all the murders that were committed in the name of idea. When you lost the war you made sure that Negroes were never going to be able to live in peace. I just wish you white people would leave us out of your devilish ways. Haven”t you did enough already.
February 8, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Fort Sumter was on Southern land, it had no right to be there, and it refused to surrender, unlike the previous forts.
February 8, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Comment on Over educated Catholic dimwit. Firstly, the north did not hand the south their asses. If Jackson survived. Oh how things would have been different. He was the best General of the whole god damn war. Furthermore, Catholic nimrod. Don’t ya know it was the pope that gave the KKK the idea of the pointy hoods. Great resemblence of popes of old. The North distorted the whole meaning of the Confedereate Flag. Of course the winners always write the history books and never will you hear an ill mention of them. If the north was so safe for the slaves from the south. Why was there a need for the underground railroad that fed into Canada? It’s simple my pointy head worshipper. Because the north didn’t give a damn about slavery and they were not safe in Lincoln’s north. You think there was no slavery in the north then you are not as educated as you think. The only difference was they were indoors serving because it was too god damn cold out in the north to see them outside. They were not as visable. LOL. They is a philosophy. “My mandate is to perserve the Union …with or without SLAVERY.” Abe Lincoln. Was slavery wrong. Sure. But it would have disintegrated as the country matured. Finally, the blacks are not the only ones who have been subjected to this type of barberism. They are the just the most recent. Look through the history of man. WE ALL HAVE SUFFERED AT THE HANDS OF OPPRESSORS AT ONE TIME IN HISTORY. Blacks, Scottish, British, Asian. Christ it goes on and on. So to use your own words my genuflecting germ have a larger cup of shut the —- up and quit your whinning about your obvious support that the Confederate Flag represents racism. It represents INDEPENDANCE.
November 1, 2011 at 12:52 am
They whites folks are smart. if you believe that your ancestors should have stayed in Europe and waited for things to change.What about the 100 years of Jim Crow? Blame that on Black people. They should have ran faster-right!
February 22, 2009 at 8:43 am
Virginia is as dirty as it gets down there. they have held 2 of the confederate capitals in there state (Richmond, and Danville) and also today there still waving there conf flags. i hate the south
August 23, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Do you even know exactly what it is that you actually hate? I believe that you hate an idea that was planted in your head by a high school history teacher , who was pushing a cirriculum that was dictated by a serving bueracracy. They teach what they teach in high school, that being that the Condfederate flag is a symbol of hate and racisim. That flag represents something totally different. It represents a symbol of defiance against a system that is quickly closing in our rights to choose, to speak, and even to practice our religion. That religion being Christianity! The religion that our founding fathers established the foundation of this country on when they wrote the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights in the first place. Any of these sound familiar? It’s about CHOICE, and the freedom to make it! The flag is just our way of displaying our unwillingness to sit idly by and watch our basic inalienable rights and freedoms be jeapordized and taken away! This was exactly what the Confederate states were trying to prove. They also were not going to sit idly by and allow their right to choose be stripped away from them.
September 20, 2009 at 10:56 am
amen that’s what im talking about u should be a teacher and teach them the real meaning of the confederate flag
November 1, 2011 at 12:59 am
You probably thought Jim Crow was need to keep those Negroes in their place. Why don’t they go back to Africa? All they taught in history is about how great america was and is. What about hte freedom of the Negroes? What flag do they get to fly? according to you we do not belong.
February 26, 2009 at 8:54 am
Very good point Marshall!! The opperative word being “Dirty.” This is the root, genuine reason why the South separated. The North was just another oppressor. The same old return of England’s reign. Opressor of what you might ask? Money? The South was taxed the same but recieved very little back to build their infrastructers, school’s etc. This is the true reason why they left and if you go through the Northern and Southern states today it is very clear still. However, Lincoln could not go to war for the shear reason the South left, because that is the very reason why the USA became 100 years earlier. It’s in the constitution. When a gov does not work or is unfair. We can change it. That’s all the south did. So Lincoln had to come up with a bullshit reason like George Bush’s “weapons of mass destruction” crap to go to war. Enter slavery. See my last entery for that truth. So yes Marshall dirty indeed it is and was. It will be very interesting how much of this stimulas package actually gets to the South. “A lie can travel half way around the world, while truth is putting on its shoes.” Mark Twain.
March 2, 2009 at 6:46 pm
People are quick to flash the Bill of Rights to justify their own actions, yet how quickly and easily they forget those Rights when they find offense in the actions of others.
With the amount of treason being downright encouraged in our nation’s capitol these days, it would be glorious to see more and more Battle Flags flying in defiance.
Oh, and the next time you bother checking those Bill of Rights – you’ll be hard pressed to find any protection from being offended. So you’d better learn to suck it up and leave others alone.
In this Republic, the ONLY perk your heritage can bring you is whether or not you might be eligible to be POTUS, as a Natural Born Citizen. But at no point in time does your heritage give you the power to tell others what they can or cannot do.
I still cringe when people want to exhalt Lincoln as our best President – when he alone is responsible for more American deaths than all the other 42 (Grover Cleveland shouldn’t count twice) combined. A true patriotic leader would have never allowed an American to shot another American – we call that a criminal act!
April 4, 2009 at 4:32 pm
[…] […]
April 28, 2009 at 10:06 am
All it is hate all around on both sides.
There will ALWAYS be something or someone to hate on. We as humans will never be pleased, no matter the time or place. Remember the is no such a place of UTOPIA.
May 6, 2009 at 9:05 pm
This flag is not racist nor are most of the people who fly it. Granted there are some that are racist who ruin it for the rest of the south. The KKK does not speak for me. Their idea of what the South and America should be is ludicris. The Southern Cross is a symbol of independence. Also contrary to popular consensus many thounsands of BLACKS fought under the Southern Cross in defence of their homes and families.
August 25, 2009 at 9:09 pm
AMEN!
June 17, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Just my 2 cents. To say that because someone else misuses something make it wrong it so stupid. Just because there are some people in this world who do not know how to control their eating habits and gain 400-600 pounds or more doesn’t mean I am going to quit eating or feeding my children. Come on people, those of you who say it is racist, just because some cooks used it as a symbol. I am proud of the flag and always will be.
June 17, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Sorry I was in a hurry it should read, makes it wrong is so stupid. You get the point anyway.
June 22, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I think if the man who said “put this flag in a museum” continues on the path he is on with the support of NORTHERN states WHO ELECTED HIM BASED ON HIS COLOR… did they stop and look at his real agenda? NO… I will gladly fly this flag.. hell, I will wear the bathing suit and paint my car to match! The South is sick of handing out s*** to people who deserve nothing because they don’t contribute a penny to society! During Katrina… help the poor, the elderly, but the HEALTHY people who won’t even get a job at Taco Bell… YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!? You are kidding me.. then they have the BALLS to get mad at the government… ZERO PRIDE… no responsibility… get off the “slavery” kick already.. none of them ever SAW OR EXPERIENCED SLAVERY… we allllll make our own destiny!!! LAND OF THE FREE!! Funny you never hear the Asian community complaining of “being held down” they started with NOTHING and are HARD WORKERS!! If you haven’t experienced the life of hardship.. how can you appreciate anything? These people today NEVER experienced hardship… THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM!! Been to Louisiana lately? I work my a** off to pay taxes while a white/black piece of trash lives off the system having kids to collect free cash! Those same kids turn into the moral decay of our society as we know it! Never work for anything… how can you teach your children the value of pride? Socialism is right around the corner for this great Country… thanks to Northern States! Goes to show… until you know the facts about an issue… shut the hell up! Never in history has so many pieces of trash shown up at the polls to exercise their rights as AMERICANS… NOT AFRICAN AMERICANS… THEY WERE BORN AND RAISED HERE SO THEY ARE AMERICANS… to vote! ALL based on Obamas color! I will continue to keep a close eye on my own family and keep them from the devestation that is right around the corner for my Grandchildren and their children… a FLAG means nothing in the big picture… we are facing the ANTI-Christ! Pick up your Bibles and read it! Moral decay… a man is being allowed to step into private sectors and take over OUR decisions … watch this unfold! For too long now we have felt bad for these individuals… now they are going to devestate what our forefathers gave their lives for ALL OF US AS AMERICANS TO ENJOY…. FREEDOM!!!
February 7, 2012 at 12:19 am
How many of your pointy hat sheet wearing friends went out and didn’t vote for OUR President because of his color? That’s something we don’t want to speak on huh? And I bet you would love a country where all african americans would just shut up an be happy searving you at taco bell without the right to vote at all. Or maybe go back to that whole “slavery kick” all together. This is the pride and values your teaching your children? Sounds like that same pride you hear the klan speak of. And I’m not sure where in the south you live but I’m 100% sure that it was built on 100s of years of free slave labor so you shouldn’t mind helping out a black person or two that’s city got completely whiped out. Also people kill me that won’t give a black the same chance in a job interview that you would give a white but then are mad when you have to support their family. If your kind of pride would stop a lot of your own problems would also.
April 27, 2012 at 9:00 am
To tharad (AKA typical stereotyping all Southerners mental midget): I’m a proud southerner with nothing but Southern states ancestors for the past 300+ years. No recent immigrants from other countries or from Northern states during any of that time.
I voted for Obama. I think Tea Party people are for the most part jerks. I plan on voting for Obama for his re-election. I’m pro-Southern because they are great people and I love them, I am one of them, and I feel a close kinship to them.
You seem to think that the only reason anyone would be pro-South is if they are anti-African American.
BS.
Wrong.
Fail.
July 7, 2009 at 11:35 pm
We as americans must uphold freedom at all costs or all of our veterans would have died in vain. Freedom…….. what does it mean for you. We sit here and argue about a flag or about being from the north or south. We better wake up and see that our freedoms are being compromised. Whether you are white,black,asian,indian or other decent,we are at the threshold of our freedoms being taken away. You can deny it or believe it’s not happenning but take a look around you. The revolutionary war was fought over some of the same issues we have today. One of those is religious freedom. If you are a christian in america you are considered right wing. If you don’t agree on what is being preached in a church’s pulpit,start your own church. Don’t try and control the church with political or your own personal issues. The seperation between church and state was never meant for government to be in the church but rather the church was to have influence on our government. I think our founding fathers would be disappointed to say the least.
July 10, 2009 at 12:57 pm
all of you are fucking stupid…just get along…you cant change the past…why are you arguing about something you have no control over? grow up…history is history…obviously you don’t know what the true meaning of history is….
July 10, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Shelly i totally agree with you! I have worked my ASS off in the state of viginia for what? nothing…i will continue to support the flag too…people dont like it? oh well…too bad for them…
July 13, 2009 at 10:17 am
Shelly, you’re a racist twit, as is misshorrible83. I pity your children.
September 20, 2009 at 10:51 am
lick me fuck head im a racist and im proud of it those niggers should be happy there great great grandparents were slaves. i would do anything to get out of that shit hole Africa.
July 13, 2009 at 5:25 pm
how the hell am i racist? i have many best friends that are of different cultures and races…ohh and yeah, im racist….better pity yourself….better get your history in check buddy….
July 27, 2009 at 8:22 pm
misshorrible83, the ones that are racist always start with “i have many friends of different cultures and races” they r trying to convince themselves of it. my history is right and that flag does represent when the south didn’t want to abolish slavery so they separated from the u.s. so they could still own free labor which just so happened to be black ppl. so you need to get your history straight. my stepdad walked into my house wearing a shirt with that flag on it and i am married to a black man and have a child with that man that is obviously half black and the situation didn’t turn out pretty for him… we see were stupidity gets you and it gets you right on your a$$ when a person feels disrespected!
September 18, 2009 at 11:30 pm
shannon west! i feel sorry for you stupidity is corectable ignorance is not!
YOUR IGNORANT!
the flag stood for the 13 confederate states who didn’t want taxed and have big government running things!
Lincoln offered the south to keep all there slaves if they would just re join the union!
the north had slaves too and even after the north won ! the union did not free their slaves and when the did lincoln started shipping their asses to hati and back to africa! go and re-read your history!
July 13, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Penny 🙂 Says:
June 3, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Here in Tampa, Florida, there has been an enormous debate on a 50′ Conf. Flag located off I-75. I passed it today coming home from work. It is awesome. I also work for Hillsborough County Gov. and once upon a time, our County uniforms had the Conf. flag on our County patch. It has been removed since I have been working there. I am from Tampa and growing up, the Conf. flag stood for southern pride and a war fought by ALL PEOPLE this means African Americans too, for FREEDOM, including SLAVERY. You know what I see really happening, WE ALL are loosing our FREEDOM. Thanks for letting me vent! Peace to all! 🙂
THANK YOU PENNY!!!!! THIS IS WHAT HANGING A CONFEDERATE FLAG MEANS!
July 27, 2009 at 8:14 pm
all these ppl that keep saying it is just about “southern pride” are full of crap and have no idea the real meaning of the flag. the flag stands for when the south still wanted free labor from black ppl. so the kentucky/the south separated themselves from the united states so that they could still own slaves. now after awhile they rejoined and did away with slaves, but this was the flag of choice “the south” flew while not part of the u.s. so anyone that says it is “southern pride” is full of it because what it is pride of is when the south said up yours to the u.s. and did what they wanted to do which was keeping owning slaves. it is ridiculous how many ppl are so ignorant and just fly the flag with no real understanding of what it actually stands for and no respect for those ppl that it does offend.
November 19, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Have you ever read a history book?
July 28, 2009 at 2:07 am
Shannon west- you need to open you’re history books hunny…obviously you don’t know what the hell you are talking about..how dare you call me stupid! you know you need to take a look in the mirror before YOU call anyone stupid…why would you disrespect you’re own stepfather for wearing the flag? you’re the one that’s ignorant…go back school…
August 8, 2009 at 3:36 pm
To all who think the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racism; I’m here to tell you.. YOU’RE so WRONG! The Confederacy fought for the simple reason of protecting our rights against the government. Gee wait, do you here that?… It sounds so familiar.. PROTECTING OUR RIGHTS… We have the right to bare arms, We have the right to freedom of speech, And the right to practice the religion of your choice without fear of persecution… What did you say? That’s not what they fought over… They fought for the right to choose… These same rights are being threatened today! I don’t know about you, but being from Northern Kentucky my Confederate Flag flies next to the OLD GLORY that sooooo many had lost thier lives over. GOD bless the people who haven’t forgotten the importance of this country… “I will Stand with my southern friends once again” the state of KY
August 11, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Why does everyone forget to mention the fact that Africans are the ones that sold their people into slavery. Were they racists too. I guess everyone is a racist now. Fuck off with that bullshit. Stop making excuses and get on with your life.
November 19, 2009 at 12:32 pm
thank you… I’m suprised no one has said that yet.
August 18, 2009 at 2:22 pm
hey check it out im a soldier in the army today currently serving in iraq, i have flown the st andrews confederate battle flag over my bunk since the day i got here. it is a reminder to me of what it is i fight for an jus likecindy says its a RIGHT TO CHOOSE and i am also from ky and i have done a family tree research in the past and NOT ONE of my family members that fought in the civil war fought for the union, so if u call me a traitor. well then why am i allowed to be in the army, why do u think that i would have joind the army to begin with? if i hated my country i wouldnt be fighting for it, i would be sittin on my front porch back home screamin white power to every black that drove by. but no! i am fighting for our country and i still fly my confederate battle flag as a symbol of hope in whats right and what may make a difference in our government.
August 22, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Hello Soldier, I want to thank you for your service in the United States Military. I too had family members who fought as confederate soldiers. I know on paper Kentucky was a neutral state. However, the Confederacy did consider Kentucky to be part of the south, the same goes for Missouri. I am proud of this country, but I fear our government. I too, am not a racist, neither do I believe that racisim and predjudice are acceptable. I support the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of my support for the notion of seperating myself and my family from the apparent attempt to turn our democracy into a system of tyrannical socialism! (Contradictary?…Think about it!)
August 28, 2009 at 12:43 am
Go army. Fly it or don’t the point is it’s your choice.
August 28, 2009 at 12:22 am
Fly the flag with pride and who cares what every one else thinks fuck them all. Southern pride. B proud of your heritage.
August 28, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Hey we fly ours more today for all to see and so does alot of Kentuckians… We stand by those who stand up to the “government of today” who does not care about our Veterans, our soldiers, seniors (our elders), disabled adults and children, and the voices of the hard working American people who look out for all the above. GOD Bless you Missourian and the Southern(in the U.S. Military)We are so proud of all our Men and Women serving for this Country.
September 15, 2009 at 12:55 pm
So i am a Junior in High school live in Indaina, and i wore my shirt with a Rebel Flag on it today and before i even got into the building i was told to turn it insde out. i reused and got in trouble. i think it is stupid an i am going to wear one everyday for a while.. nothing they can do.
if u think there is something thyy can do or if you think i shoul keep wearing them email.
country_girl0150@yahoo.com
September 16, 2009 at 11:01 pm
yea people will always have dif. opinions about our flag but like they said it is about choice. I fly my flags proud all the time year round accually i fly two one on each side of my chevy. i’m not racist, far from it many of my black and hispanic and mixed friends ride in my truck with me often. Many of my other friends also fly flags, we get many comments and looks but we dont care. People dont even ask us why we fly our flags or what they mean to us they just see us and our camo and our trucks and assume we are racist. thats not the case at all. I wish we could let the past be the past but that will never happen i know that so why argue about it. What you believe is what you believe im not gonna try to change your mind because just like i have my reasons for flying my flags high im sure you all have your reasons for not flying the flag. People will always judge the north think we are wrong we thing they are wrong. so it is what it is. Just my opinion.
Flyin my flags til i die!
September 20, 2009 at 10:45 am
hell yea i get kicked out of my school because i have a confederate flag on my truck and refuse to take it off y the hell cant i say what i want or do what i want to my property doesn’t the first amendment guarantee the freedom of speech what the hell happened to this country.
i say what the fuck i want to say!
September 18, 2009 at 11:22 pm
I had some long speech planned out…. but forget it! Grow up people! The confederate Battle Flag is Not racist by and means! if you think it is then seek counciling for attributing your anger and grief to this one flag! and your mis-guided associations.
read 1 Timothy 6:1, 6:2, 6:3, :4& :5.
Colossians 4:1
and I could go on and on slavery has been around since the time of jesus christ so does that mean that every cross you see stands for slavery as well!!
GROW UP!
I fly my flag to symbolize the (rebel) with in me and i will not stand for a controlling government! government is for the people BY the people! if they try to take to much controll I will stand against that goverment no matter which flag they fly
September 19, 2009 at 6:42 am
I’m not sure where you learned your history, but slavery was a primary cause of secession. In their own, official words.
Declaration of Causes of Seceding States
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Georgia: . For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
September 28, 2009 at 8:31 am
I agree with most of your article and believe you are well read on the issue, however… The Confederate States did not declare war on the US, as a matter of fact, the first state to succede did so only after the union opened fire in their harbor. That, my friend was the declaration of war. And if this flag is to be relegated to history, what of all the other flags that flew over Rebel troops? It is simply pandering to the uneducated. History is history, and people should not attempt to remove it.
September 28, 2009 at 9:42 am
Hmmm. Well, don’t jump on me. That statement I made above is about as wrong as it gets. I had to go back and re-read what I was studying. I have just started to study this. No excuse, though. It was the confederatest that opened fire first. Glad I went back and checked that or I would have been wrong on more than this occasion.
October 4, 2009 at 10:52 am
I always find debates like this ironic in that the vast majority of those who claim the Confederate Flag is racist are those who do NOT fly it or honor it. If those who do fly it are racist, then they would loudly speak out their racist views and state, “Yes, I am racist and that is why I fly the flag.” But, this is not the case. Those of us who fly the flag, wear T-shirts, have tattoos, are always having to defend ourselves from accusations of racism. I am a Christian, and I know that the cross has had many stains on it throughout history. So, in my opinion, the flood of people who always present history and tell us the flag is racist, who don’t fly it themselves, is just like people walking into a church, presenting history and telling the congregation that the Chrisitan cross represents war, slavery, corruption, etc. Both ridiculous circumstances. I am proud of the Confederate flag, and no amount of name calling or convenient twisted historical accouts will ever make me racist. I know what it stands for, and well as the tens of thousands of free blacks who vountarily fought for the South for EQUAL pay (unlike the northern blacks, who received lower pay than whites). The question I always ask if is the War for Southern Independence was about freeing blacks from slavery since they are equal, then why were they still having to fight for equal rights in this country 100 years later in the 1960s? The sad truth is that back in the 1860s the majority of everyone was racist. Interesting note about the KKK: 2 flags are mandatory at their official meetings–the American and Christian flag. My understanding is that their bylaws make no mention of the Confederate Flag.
October 20, 2009 at 10:08 am
hey man this flag need to be up every where because i am a big fan of it
October 20, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Stupid Hicks, the flag was flown as rallying banner of rebels and traitors.
And you guys call us northernors “Unpatriotic” and “Yankees”.
BTW “Yankee” is a dirogatory term for americans. As the English are “Lymies” and the germans are “Krauts”. Ya’ll are Yankees too idiots.
Flying that flag on government property is treason. I proudly piss on the confederate flag. The north won the war, and sure it may not have been cited to be about slavery, but it was. I say this because the issues that lead up to would not have occured if the issue of slavery was resolved at the nation’s founding like it should have been. And to those who said it was about protecting their rights from the government. B.S. The reason it started was because the free states outnumbered the slave states, and the slaves states feared that slavery might go away in a senate vote and because their guy lost the election to Lincoln.
Just admit, you guys were wrong, you betrayed america, and you lost, and ya’ll deserved it.
But hey the past is the past, so just
throw out your confederate flags, and hoist the only flag worthy of representing America the stars and stripes.
January 13, 2010 at 10:52 pm
dumb yankees- “Yankee” is also a name for northerners- although i don’t expect on northerners like you to know anything like that. i proudly piss on yankees or northerners, whatever you call yourselves. nobody won the war, a treaty still needs to be signed. we ain’t trying to control your country, but hey, go back to Boston
February 4, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Lincoln falsely claimed that the states were never sovereign and that the union created the states, not the other way around. (But as Joe Sobran has remarked, the notion that the union is older than the states makes as much sense as the idea that a marriage can be older than either spouse. It is impossible for a union of two things to be older than either of the things it is a union of).
The truth is that in all of the American founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution, the states refer to themselves as “free and independent.” The Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolutionary War was a treaty with the individual, free and independent states, not “the whole people” of the United States.
The citizens of the states understood that they were sovereign over the federal government, not the other way around, as Lincoln absurdly claimed. The sovereign states delegated a few enumerated powers to the central government, as their agent, while maintaining sovereignty for themselves.
Despite Lincoln’s effort to destroy the system of federalism and states’ rights that was championed by Jefferson and other founders by waging total war on the South, many Americans still believed in the Jeffersonian states’ rights ideal as of the 1880s. Despite all the death and destruction of the war, and several subsequent decades of Lincolnian propaganda about the alleged evils of states’ rights, many Americans still viewed federalism and states’ rights as a safeguard against federal tyranny – just as the American founding fathers, especially Jefferson, had done
February 4, 2010 at 8:18 pm
But I guess some people like living with the federal government’s foot on their neck and their hands in their pockets. And saying that doesn’t make me unpatriotic. Just the opposite. Shows that I care about my country and it’s destiny. Proud and patriotic Southerners are quick to take up arms to keep our cherished freedoms as I did during Vietnam and my father did in Korea. The right to fly the flag my ancestors fought and died under is one of those freedoms. So Cullen, you’re right about the south losing. But the northern states also lost their sovereignty. So who won? Not the over 360,000 union dead and 258,000 rebel dead or those who loved them. Slavery was a dying institution. A few more years it would have perished on it’s own. There had been talk of what to do with emancipated slaves prior to the war. Land grants out west, establishing colonies such as the one in Liberia and other options that would have benefitted blacks much more than having to struggle for their civil and human rights for the next 100 years. So it’s really hard to see them as winners. It’s hard to see who won and lost what. Looks to me that more was lost than was won. Guess the federal government was the only one coming out of the war with anything substanstial. Still amazes me that Lincoln is regarded the way he is.
February 4, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Oh, and as to who betrayed who and who committed treason depends on wether you were from the north or south. The victors always write the history books. The union winning the war didn’t make them right. Not anymore than atrocities committed on the Native Americans made them right. Just means you “won”.
October 23, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I got a few words for the Angry Overeducated Catholic. You may be angry and unfortunately you may be Catholic. But overeducated you ARE NOT ! If so how could YOU fly a piece of yellow flag (symbol of Papism) that has smeared, lied and killed more than any war? Does your education include some of the atrocities committed by your beloved Cult of a church? You all burned folks for even owning a Bible and your church is still spending money stolen from Protestants in the Middle Ages. The Cult of Mary would probably still be burning people at the stake for flying a flag or reading a Bible or anything that hinted of the lies yall haved peddled since Constantine. You are the epotime of a HYPOCRITE !!!
October 26, 2009 at 3:47 am
My heritage hails from the south, my family fought for states rights. And as has been stated several times earlier in this blog, the battle flag of the Confederacy was just that, a battle flag to remind people of what these patriotic few were standing against.
I predict when the masses realize what is about to transpire when the United States is signed over to, or for a more acurate statement, surrendered to the United Nations under the disguise of the Copenhagen Treaty in Dec. 2009, the battle flag will become popular again.
The coming battles will not be about race. It will not matter if a person is black, white, red or any other color, it will be if Americans will want to keep their country, it history and heritage or resign themselves to live under a one world government more commonly referred to as a “New World Order”.
In an age of visual aids being necessary to have a point proven, I recommend to any that has even the slightest amount of curiousity to watch a TBN production of “Megiddo: The Omega Code 2”. After that take a minute, and reflect on the last few elections.
Then, search for the “Copenhagen Treaty” on the most poplular video site everyone seems to post videos on (you know the one) and listen to Lord Christopher Monckton has to say about it.
Then view “The Truth Project” “Lesson 10” to see the power of history.
Last, if you have anymore doubts, by all means, take the time to search for the document and read all 204 pages as I have. Digest it, then see if you are ready to pick up a battle flag.
As for me, I know it’s heritage, I know the truth behind it and if it offends the less knowledgable or uninformed, I would recommend a little more education before ranting about it.
October 28, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Hey, I am a 12 turning 13 year old girl. I am in the 7th Grade and I have studied more on the South than anyone could believe. My 3rd grade teacher was against the south and on hat days and such she would not allow us to wear the Confederate Flag on our clothing and hats. I was just a little girl then and I was curoious about this anger I saw in her eyes everytime she saw this flag for I was little and did not understand. Then I started studying, I read over 20 books that year completly on the Confederate Flag. I then found the true meaning of it.
I read 30 books that year not counting the 20 movies I rented. I loved learning so I made a habbit of learning about this. I too am from the South which made me even more curious. The next day we had lessons on the KKK. I began to learn about this. I rented book and movies on this also. The KKK really at first was for equal rights. Movies and Non-Fiction just made them off to be horrid man slaudering people. They were usually christians as well and believed in the Bible and all in means and stands for.
Now you might think, a 12 year old couldn’t know anything about a “grown-up” thing. But really I know more than you would think that I know.
The Confederate Flag means no more that heritage, NOT RACISM at all. I believe that the people who complain and make a huge sene you should do a little more research than looking at one website and judging the meaning by that. Please do a little more research and then choose your pick if you agree or still dissagree with the Confederate Flag. If you would like to message me any further message me at harley.hale@gmail.com. Thank you for your time.
October 30, 2009 at 9:33 pm
I wear a rebel?american flag proudly on the back of my neck. to me mit means that i am a rebel. I don’t generalize. I judge people on a case by case basis. We all are racist to varrying degrees. Maybe the arab man next to you on a plane, maybe the big black man walking twords you on a dark sidewalk, maybe the crazy redneck writing this. The american portion of my flag means that i am proud that i have the freedom to express myself as I see fit.
November 2, 2009 at 7:34 am
I knew IT! Has nothing to do with racism!!!!!
November 8, 2009 at 4:54 pm
If flying the Confederate Flag is treason, why is burning the American Flag not treason? The second sounds more treasonist to me.
November 8, 2009 at 11:12 pm
I think that the confederate flag has a lot to do with southern heritage. I think it is very ignorant to just assume that because someone has a confederate flag that they are racist. Also it is in no way treason to have that flag. If people can wear anarchist signs and just be seen as someone just expressing themselves then people should be able to wear the stars and bars. Most people that have a confederate flag are very proud to be american and southern.
November 29, 2009 at 6:33 am
IMO..The US Flag has much more of a fucked, twisted, sadistic, terrible & frightening meaning than the Confederate Flag. To me, the rebel flag just represents The SOUTH…as in LOCATION, and a rebellion/”Southern born and raised” kind of mentality as opposed to slavery/racism. If you want associate a flag with racism, personally, I would think it’s more associated with the American Flag. As for seeing the KKK’s association with the Rebel flag, from experience, I’ve only seen KKK members in the south, hence why they would fly it in the first place. I’m not sure if they live in northern states or on the east or westcoast and I’m not saying they DON’T. In addition to that, they ALSO fly the American Flag. With that fact in mind, wouldn’t you be bias by saying the Rebel Flag represents racism, by witnessing the KKK flying it, without acknowledging the American Flag’s upholding at their meetings or whatever the hell they have?
December 7, 2009 at 11:35 am
OK LOOK THE 1ST GUY THAT DECIDED TO WRITE ON HERE AFTER THE THING WAS WROTE…THE CONFEDERATE FLAG STANDS FOR THE CONFEDERACY AND THE RIGHT TO SUCEED FROM A NATION…WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT THAT SAYS WE MUST DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO PROTECT WHAT WE BELIEVE IN…
February 18, 2010 at 1:47 pm
thats really truee!! =)
December 9, 2009 at 10:20 am
So…let me see if I have this right. All the thousands of blacks that wore the uniform of, and fought for the Confederacy were racists. Is that what you are saying?
The Stars and Bars is a BATTLE FLAG, under which thousands of honorable blacks served and died alongside southern whites. It is not the flag of the CSA. The official flag of the Confederacy originally used 7 stars and later 11 stars. Its layout is similar to the flag of the US. The first flag of the CSA was the “Bonnie Blue Flag” with a single star. The first verse of the song by that name goes,
We are a band of brothers and native to the soil
Fighting for our Liberty, With treasure, blood and toil
And when our rights were threatened, the cry rose near and far
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!
Perhaps the fact that the Five Civilized Tribes fought for the CSA explains why your beloved “Yankees” lied to, murdered, and robbed the American Indian men, women and children. Surely they were not racists, were they?
Perhaps you “Yankees” are just a bunch of sexual intellectuals (that’s fucking idiots that think they know everything) should try to educate yourselves on a subject before running off at the mouth. Lincoln was wrong. Read your Constitution. It says that the people should take up arms when the government no longer represents them. (Like now?)
Well let me tell you, red, yellow, black or white if Barrack Obama can he will take all of your rights shove them up your ass and you’ll all be poor little hind tit sucking Yankee Doodle communists. What a bunch of liberal ass holes! They never change.
You know the difference between a hemorrhoid and a Yankee? A hemorrhoid comes down, is a pain in the ass and then goes back up. A Yankee comes down and stays.
January 14, 2010 at 9:36 pm
HAhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaOh I think I shit a yankee (laughing too hard).
February 3, 2010 at 11:56 am
ok so there were some racists in the south but think of it there were more southern black slave owners that lived in the northern part of the confederacy…also we know that there was atleast one slave state in the north but I also know that we can get along with everyone that wants to know the true meaning and nothing more than the truth…ya the truth is that the flag was used by the kkk as a flag for them and that is why we have such a bad rep for bein racist…infact the kkk has non-racist groups like the one in north and south carolina…the ones that lynched people would give the ones like the one in north caroline a bad name…
December 11, 2009 at 12:01 am
Dang– thought that this would not be such a long read. My dumb.
The persons quoted herein by Mr. Melater, Mr.Weaver and Mr. Harris from Mississippi got it right. Pay particular attention where they allude to the fact that almost all of the slaves were bought and sold long before the Battle flag ever came into existence.
And further, add my opinion that the traitors were those Northern soldiers who were of Southern descent and fought with the North.
February 5, 2010 at 7:49 pm
My great great grandfather from Alabama fought for the Confederacy. His half brother went to Illinois and enlisted in the Union Army. His reasons were that they paid better and had nicer uniforms. Not nearly as noble or honorable as defending your homeland against northern aggression. Asked if he would have killed his brother had they met in battle, my gggrandfather replied “Of course. I would kill any yankee that took up arms against the South”.
December 12, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Just another example of the damn yankees trying to rule us. Why don’t they just leave us alone, and go back to new york.
December 24, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Hey. I couldn’t get through to this page the other day. Anyone else had the problem?
December 31, 2009 at 9:57 pm
The flags of the south are not heritage. They stood for a symbol for a very short period of time. The confederate flag as well as the battle flag belongs in a mueseum. Eveyone lost in that war as in every war. The south and everyone who currently flies the flags must learn the battle is over. In as much as they didn’t stand for racism then. They do now. I was born in the land of Lincoln, and I now live in Florida. I must say it’s the same no matter where I travel. Ms.Q. a black woman from a previous blog said she was uncomfortable around a confederate flag. Why would anyone wish to make another human being uncomfortable. If anyone can state that they don’t care about that womans feeling then they’re a racist. Put the flags in the mueseums where they belong. Don’t Hate! Not for political reasons or religious reasons.
January 19, 2010 at 6:56 pm
ms q lives in Maryland. Maryland technically is in the south but seems like the north with northern tendencies. in the north, the confederate flag means racism. in the south, it is the south’s flag and pride.
February 3, 2010 at 12:00 pm
look the state of maryland was never and never will be below the mason dixson line…the mason dickson line is just above virginia and has never mooved…i still have a problem with the bull headed yanks that were the cause of us here in the south gettin a bad name…not just the kkk or the fact slavery was legal infact do some research lincoln didnt free the slaves…infact slavery would have faded out by today anyway lol just think about it lol
February 5, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Maryland was a slave state and was prevented from succession when Lincoln flooded the state with union troops and imprisoned many pro-south politicians. 25,000 Marylanders still managed to cross the Potomac River to serve in the Army of Northern Virginia.
March 9, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Some people fear what they don’t understand. We’ve been taught for so long that the flag stood for racism that we believe it. If you were to read the true history of what the flag stood for I’m sure that fear would vanish and you would come to at least respect if not love what it represented. Racists who use it to represent hate are degrading it’s true meaning because they have bought into what our government wants us to believe about why the war was fought. Atrocities committed on the south by northern business interests via their Lincoln administration were moral and legal outrages. A lot of brave and honorable men sacrificed everything trying to stop those injustices. They deserve to be remembered for that. And we need to understand and learn by what happened so we can prevent anything like it from happening again. That battle should never end.
January 2, 2010 at 12:34 pm
[…] Re: Bridging the gap yep seriously […]
January 7, 2010 at 8:51 pm
What I dont understand about all this is if the KKK uses the confederate flag, then why would anyone who isnt racist want to be put in the same category as them. I have had the best of both worlds. I have lived in the North and lived in the South. I have experienced more racism in the south than in the North, it is ridiculous. When I lived in GA, the job I worked at flew a confederate flag and also put up a noose, tell me they arent racist, now that is a bunch of bullish. So once again I ask,If people know that the confederate flag symbolizes racism (to some), but you say you arent racist, then why would you want to associate yourself with that category of people?
January 19, 2010 at 7:00 pm
i bet the noose was for yankees. i know black people that fly the confederate flag and are proud of it. the kkk gives my flag a bad name.
February 2, 2010 at 1:47 pm
well there was black confederate regements and you’ll ask why well there were many black slaveowners 5,000 in new orleans alone
February 11, 2011 at 4:55 pm
I’m not going to let some racist, ignorant, hate group just thieve one of my people’s most sacred cultural symbol. Screw that.
The Sons of Confederate Veterans uses the Confederate battle flag and they protest AGAINST the Klan at their rallies. The SCV also takes care of old cemeteries both Black and White. Usually right alongside various African-American Civics groups.
September 12, 2011 at 4:35 am
Because us folk that have pride arent goin to hide from what we believe in, REAL southerns arent pussys. Anit afraid to be them.
December 3, 2011 at 1:09 am
Kyle
If yall yankees think the word yankee is so bad why do you agree that it is ok to be used for a base ball team? Doesn’t make any since. Here in the South we are proud to be called a Dixie.If you are so proud of coming from the North then whats so wrong with the word yankee?
January 8, 2010 at 11:59 pm
no,the confederacy did not declare open war on the union. The union had no right having any property in the CSA. if they did, it belonged to the CSA. And the KKK only gives the confederacy a bad name.
January 9, 2010 at 9:43 pm
There is no confederacy. There is no CSA.
sc speaks of the present where there isn’t one. As if we are still separate. This mentality is what creates the mystic of whether there is or is not racism when flying the flags of the south. The flags belong in the muesums as a part of history not heritage.
February 11, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Technically the government of the CSA never surrendered. Only the armies of the CSA surrendered.
This war isn’t over and the CSA is not dead.
January 11, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Yes, there is a confederacy and a confederate government today. If you look an an election map, Mr. B, notice the entire south is made up of conservative voters (excluding parts of Virginia, N Carolina, and Florida, due to high yankee population. Know what the Bible Belt is? Southern culture is still thriving in the south with much heritage. Have you ever even been to the south, Mr. B? If you want to learn more about the confederate government, go to ConfederateStatesOfAmerica.org By the way, the flag of an existent country does not belong in a museum, and the battle is not over. General Lee surrendered his troops but no treaty was signed. Us confederates want to sigh a peace treaty overdue by about 150 years. Take a look at the website if you are interested.
April 25, 2010 at 9:50 pm
you kick ass
January 13, 2010 at 1:06 am
well i hope you happy with your self to piss everyone off. i personally think that if it wasnt for honest abe we would still have slaves today. thats where they belong and well i fly that flag in my front yard along with the texas and u.s. flag. i even have it tattooed on my shoulder. im proud of it always have and always will.
January 13, 2010 at 1:08 am
THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN…..
February 3, 2010 at 12:03 pm
for general robert e lee said…”lets go to sleep boys when we r rested we will fight nother day for the freedom of ourselves from this so called holy union”
January 13, 2010 at 1:16 am
HEY ASSHOLES!!!!! if i remember correctly its the blacks in africa who sold other blacks to the white man….so if you really think bout it slavery started in africa and carried to the u.s. so know a little knowledge before you talk bout my flag my country my home.
January 14, 2010 at 9:28 pm
Hey AM. How would you feel about a flag of you sucking my big Texas d*ck?
April 25, 2010 at 9:51 pm
hahahaha
January 18, 2010 at 12:57 am
Thank you… Thats what i dont get about yankees. We all wanted to “seceed” from britain. And then it was noble. But when the south wants to seceed from america, they make it out to be a crime.
January 18, 2010 at 7:19 am
Tony Barnett: “The key issue with the south was state rights.”
Declaration of Causes of Seceding States
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Georgia: For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
February 4, 2010 at 2:29 pm
South Carolina:In the year 1765, that portion of the British Empire embracing Great Britain, undertook to make laws for the government of that portion composed of the thirteen American Colonies. A struggle for the right of self-government ensued, which resulted, on the 4th of July, 1776, in a Declaration, by the Colonies, “that they are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; and that, as free and independent States, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.”
They further solemnly declared that whenever any “form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government.” Deeming the Government of Great Britain to have become destructive of these ends, they declared that the Colonies “are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved.”
In pursuance of this Declaration of Independence, each of the thirteen States proceeded to exercise its separate sovereignty; adopted for itself a Constitution, and appointed officers for the administration of government in all its departments– Legislative, Executive and Judicial. For purposes of defense, they united their arms and their counsels; and, in 1778, they entered into a League known as the Articles of Confederation, whereby they agreed to entrust the administration of their external relations to a common agent, known as the Congress of the United States, expressly declaring, in the first Article “that each State retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence, and every power, jurisdiction and right which is not, by this Confederation, expressly delegated to the United States in Congress assembled.”
Under this Confederation the war of the Revolution was carried on, and on the 3rd of September, 1783, the contest ended, and a definite Treaty was signed by Great Britain, in which she acknowledged the independence of the Colonies in the following terms: “ARTICLE 1– His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz: New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that he treats with them as such; and for himself, his heirs and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.”
Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted. And concurrent with the establishment of these principles, was the fact, that each Colony became and was recognized by the mother Country a FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATE. I never said it wasn’t an issue. I stated that it was not the key issue.
February 4, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Tony Bennett: I never said it wasn’t an issue. I stated that it was not the key issue.
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity;
It’s very difficult to be more clear than that. It’s thoroughly identified with slavery. In some unimaginable perversion of the Declaration of Independence, they say it’s about the “undeniable truth” of white supremacy.
These aren’t words said in the heat of the moment, but written declarations. You really need to think hard about this.
the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted.
If we apply the Prudence Clause of the Declaration of Independent to hereditary slaves and their allies, that condition has been more than met. The system had to be abolished.
This is not to blame the soldiers. It was the folly of their elders who wrote those declarations. But it’s important to remember the causes of that conflict, in their own words, so that people don’t forget.
Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens 1861: (Jefferson’s) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. … Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition.
February 5, 2010 at 5:34 pm
You can’t apply the Prudence Clause to slaves because there were three clauses in it that distinctly excluded slaves. And I don’t know what “the right of a people to abolish a Government” has to do with abolishing slavery. Though wrong, the idea of “white supremacy” was not limited to VP Stephens or Southern whites:
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.” – Abraham Lincoln
In regard to the rights of the Southern states to succeed:
“…governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it…” – Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence, 1776
“Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit.” – Abraham Lincoln (from a speech in Congress January 1848)
Regarding the legality of secession: “We do heartily accept this doctrine, believing it intrinsically sound, beneficent, and one that, universally accepted, is calculated to prevent the shedding of seas of human blood. And, if it justified the secession from the British Empire of Three Millions of colonists in 1776, we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861.” – The New York Daily Tribune, December 17, 1860
It’s well documented and recorded that Abraham Lincoln declared war on the succeeded states after the north refused to remove her troops from Southern soil opting instead to attempt resupply and reinforcement of Ft. Sumpter, SC. The South never declared war. They were simply attempting to defend their homeland and their rights as sovereign states. Union commander Alexander was given every oppurtunity to evacuate his troops but chose not to. He was also advised of the consequences of not doing so. Many Americans falsely believe this is what started The Civil War. Lincoln declaring war is what started The Civil War. By refusing to evacuate and attempting to reinforce Ft. Sumpter, Lincoln knew the new Southern government would have to respond strongly or risk being perceived as weak. There were many aggresive acts upon Southern soil by the north that contributed to succession: 1859 John Brown and his gang of what today would be regarded as terrorists launch a planned, armed assault upon the town of Harpers Ferry, Virginia and the United States military arsenal located there. Brown’s background includes having those he disagrees with hacked to death and his stated objective is to foment a slave rebellion that will kill every white person in The South. Ironically, the first person murdered by his band of thugs during his invasion of Virginia is a free black man. Brown’s gang is overcome in combat by United States Marines (under command of U.S. Cavalry Col. R.E. Lee) and Brown himself is brought to trial, convicted and hung for treason. But it is widely known that he was financed, helped with planning and aided by wealthy, politically active people in the New England states … people who are never brought to justice. Most people in the North are revolted by Brown’s actions. But a very vocal minority, including some newspaper editors and even preachers, proclaim Brown a hero and martyr, even compare him to Christ and cry out for more blood. Psychologically this pushes many in the Deep South to a firm view that the North (which they see as dominated by the “Radical Republicans” of New England) is committed to a course intent on terror and tyranny against them. Once Abraham Lincoln (a Republican) is elected president in November 1860 they are convinced (rightly or wrongly) that they have no choice but to exercise the right of secession to escape the oppression they are certain is to come. Thus South Carolina secedes on December 20th, 1860 to be followed shortly thereafter by Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas. These seven organize a government known as the Confederate States of America.Though most people are aware that these seven states of the Deep South seceded between December 1860 and February 1861, few are aware that the states of the “Upper South” remained in the Union until federal coercion forced them to choose between taking part in actions they regarded as unconstitutional, including participating in armed invasion … or being invaded themselves. Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri and Maryland would all find themselves at this crossroads. Virginia and North Carolina would both be blockaded while still in the Union and Virginia soil would be occupied by federal troops prior to secession. Tennessee and Arkansas would secede in the face of a threat of aggression. Missouri would attempt to stay in the Union – though neutral – but would be quickly invaded, suffering a massacre of civilians in St. Louis before finally seceding. Kentucky would also attempt neutrality but would end up having two state governments (one pro-Union and the other pro-Confederate) and be fought over by both sides. Maryland’s officials would be arrested and imprisoned before they could assemble and decide upon a course of action.
As to slavery being the key issue in the Civil War, lets ask Mr. Lincoln since he was the one who declared it: “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause” – Honest Abe. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
February 5, 2010 at 8:18 pm
I also find it amusing that if Lincoln didn’t recognize the southern states right to succeed, then why did he declare war against the southern U.S.? His own country. If he did recognize that right, then why didn’t he pull Union troops out of Ft. Sumpter when requested?
January 18, 2010 at 5:46 pm
FACT: GOD WORKS THROUGH ISRAELITES
FACT: AN ISRAELITE IS AN ANGLO-SAXON, GERMAN, AND KINDRED MALE OR FEMALE, ESPECIALLY THEY WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS YHWH OF HOSTS
FACT: BLESS IRAELITES, AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED
FACT: PUT ISRAELITES DOWN, IN ANY WAY, OR HARM AN ISRAELITE, IN ANY WAY, AT ALL, AND YOU WILL BE CURSED.
FACT: FOLLOW CHRIST, AS CHRISTIANS (99+% OF WHOM ARE ISRAELITES, AS CHRIST COMMANDS, “IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS”, AND YOU WILL NOT BE AMONG THE MANY WHO ARE ON THE BROAD WAY TO DESTRUCTION.
IN YHWH OF HOSTS JESUS CHRIST,
AMEN!!!
AND
AMEN!!!
January 18, 2010 at 5:48 pm
FACT: GOD WORKS THROUGH ISRAELITES
FACT: AN ISRAELITE IS AN ANGLO-SAXON, GERMAN, AND KINDRED MALE OR FEMALE, ESPECIALLY THEY WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS YHWH OF HOSTS
FACT: BLESS IRAELITES, AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED
FACT: PUT ISRAELITES DOWN, IN ANY WAY, OR HARM AN ISRAELITE, IN ANY WAY, AT ALL, AND YOU WILL BE CURSED.
FACT: FOLLOW CHRIST, AS CHRISTIANS (99+% OF WHOM ARE ISRAELITES) AS CHRIST COMMANDS, “IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS”, AND YOU WILL NOT BE AMONG THE MANY WHO ARE ON THE BROAD WAY TO DESTRUCTION.
IN YHWH OF HOSTS JESUS CHRIST,
AMEN!!!
AND
AMEN!!!
January 18, 2010 at 6:17 pm
I wish I had found this site before because it is great!
January 19, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Has anyone noticed there are more of us southerners on this site than yankees?
February 11, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Have you noticed that we know a lot more about American history than the Yankees do?
January 19, 2010 at 7:33 pm
hey, AM, as far as Obama’s statement goes on the confederate belonging in a museum, he can shove that statement up his yankee a**!
January 25, 2010 at 1:58 pm
I admit to not being educated on the subject matter. So I have a question. I live in Northern California in the country. There are people flying the confederate flag here and they dont have any relation to the south. They are always the same type of person too. Redneck. What would be the meaning of them flying the flag? What are they supporting? curious
January 26, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Don’t know, have to ask them. It’s a little known fact however, that California, having many southern immigrants, were stopped from suceeding by federal troops sent by Lincoln. He knew that if California was lost to the Confederacy, it would provide the South with money from gold and other wealth with which to buy arms.
February 1, 2010 at 10:20 am
The South fought bravely and it is a disgrace that it was ill treated by the men who wanted to restore unity among the different states of the federation. it lasted four decades before the South was regarded again as a full member of the Union. Now with the new president and the people who want to please him, they try to put the blame on the southern states and their so called racism. It is a coarse lie and an isult to intellgence to regard the Southern cross as a symbol of hatred. It is part of the heritage of the South something to be proud of, courageous men fought like lions during four years to protect their land, their countrymen, their families. They were defeated by the collapse of their economy not by lacht of bravery _
February 1, 2010 at 3:11 pm
I usually don’t ordinarily post on many Blogs, still I just has to say thank you… keep up the amazing work. Ok regrettably its time to get to school.
February 1, 2010 at 4:28 pm
great site
telling my 9 year old son about the flag
February 4, 2010 at 8:58 pm
I’m a Southerner. But I can understand a northener’s aversion to the Confederate battle flag. Look at how many times they must have soiled their pants seeing it coming over a hill or out of the woods. I was gonna say shit their selves but thought better of it.
February 6, 2010 at 8:06 am
Tony Bennett: You can’t apply the Prudence Clause to slaves because there were three clauses in it that distinctly excluded slaves.
Declaration of Independence: “Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.”
The Southern States were despotic regimes that had to be ended. You demand rights for yourself, the right of self-determination, that you argue do not apply to others.
February 6, 2010 at 3:44 pm
I’m not arguing that slaves shouldn’t have been freed. Just that the clause you were quoting excluded them. The institution of slavery goes back thousands of years. It had been dying off around the world in the 19th century. It would have died in the U.S. without the Civil War. Lincoln needed a noble cause to rally lagging support in the north for his war, a way to appease Great Britian and France, a means to punish the South and an honorable excuse for declaring a war which killed and maimed over 1 million Americans. Hence, The Emancipation Proclamation. Thanks for the D. of I. passage, further proof of the Southern states right of succession.
February 6, 2010 at 4:48 pm
The Prudence Clause has no exception for black people.
Again, the Confederates stated their reasons for secession. And that reason was slavery. You keep ignoring their own declared causes.
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity
February 11, 2011 at 5:16 pm
He already covered this. We’re not saying it was one of the causes, but there were many more. The North was willing to back off of slavery to stop us seceding. We didn’t care. Too little, too late. We were tired of all of their overbearing, self serving, oppressive laws and tariffs.
February 14, 2011 at 4:26 pm
All right. I let this little turd off last week because I didn’t want to get into another long post. But I have had a breather and now I’m ready to pop this little Yankee zit. So here goes…
Oh please, don’t start that tired old lie that the North was some egalitarian enlightened society crusading for the rights of African Americans in the Civil War. What utter nonsense. If you buy into that patently false notion let me introduce a few uncomfortable facts to burst your little bubble.
The entire reason why the North didn’t have a large slave holding population was only, ONLY, a matter of climate and economics rather than a difference in opinion on the practice. The entire North was a slave society at one time. The same as it was in French Canada, Cuba and Brazil. All of them made their start in an economic system built upon slavery based on race. In all of them, slavery enjoyed the service of the law and the sanction of religion. The North failed to develop large-scale agrarian slavery, such as later arose in the Deep South, but that had little to do with morality and much more to do with climate and economy.
Newspaper advertisements in the North offer abundant evidence of slave families broken up by sales or inheritance in the North. One Boston ad of 1732, for example, lists a 19-year-old woman and her 6-month-old infant, to be sold either “together or apart.” Advertisements for runaways in New York and Philadelphia newspapers sometimes mention suspicions that they had gone off to try to find wives who had been sold to distant purchasers. Slaves were auctioned openly in the Market House of Philadelphia; in the shadow of Congregational churches in Rhode Island; in Boston taverns and warehouses; and weekly, sometimes daily, in Merchant’s Coffee House of New York.
Sure they slowly started getting rid of their slavery, but do you know how the owners “emancipated” them? They often just sold them off to slave holders in different parts of the country. Meanwhile northern politicians were busy setting up a separate set of laws and punishments for negroes. You guys became all high and mighty about not having slaves but you sure as hell didn’t want any darkies living anywhere near you.
The Northern states just replaced outright slavery with stricter controls of free blacks. Black voters were disenfranchised by an 1807 state law that limited the franchise to “free, white male” citizens. If any free black entered Illinois, even DURING the Civil War, for longer than 10 days he would be flogged and sold off as a slave. New Jersey didn’t get rid of the last of their slaves until 1865.
The attempt to force blame for all America’s ills onto the South led you Yankees to some really extreme twists of logic. Abolitionist leaders in New England noted the “degraded” condition of the local black communities. Yet the common abolitionist explanation of this had nothing to do with northerners, black or white. Instead, they blamed it on the continuance of slavery in the South. “The toleration of slavery in the South,” Garrison editorialized, “is the chief cause of the unfortunate situation of free colored persons in the North.”
This argument, embraced almost universally by New England abolitionists, made good sense as part of a strategy to heap blame for everything wrong with American society on southern slavery, but it also had the advantage, to northern ears, of conveniently shifting accountability for a locally specific situation away from the indigenous institution from which it had evolved.
The North didn’t simply forget that it ever had slaves. Instead they deliberately re-wrote the region’s past starting in the early 1800’s. By the mid-century you poor deluded idiots had completely re-envisioned your history as a triumphant narrative of free, white labor. All so you could shout from the rooftops a hypocritical superior moral identity. You sanctimonious and pompous Yankees loathed slavery less for its inherent injustice and more because it flooded the country with blacks.
And where, oh where, did the blacks come from? How did they get here? The South was a community of farmers, not a sea-going folk. But what was the North? Whalers, fisherman, and yes, chattel shipping slave merchants. After selling off your slaves, rewriting your history, demonizing the South, touting Northern superiority, you dumb bitches were shipping slaves as fast as you could. Even during the freaking war. Jesus Christ, you Yanks INVENTED the word hypocrisy. Profit, profit, profit. Oh, keeping slaves isn’t good? Ok, I’ll absolve myself by selling my slaves to the South. Then I will yell at the top of my lungs how morally superior I am to them. Wait a minute, gotta make a trip to Africa to load up on fresh slaves to sell for a tidy profit to those evil Southerners.
Fuck you.
Get off your soapbox, quit regurgitating your high school history lessons, and learn how to think for yourself. You aren’t playing with kiddies here. We know shit. We know the truth. You could too if you actually research it for yourself and stop relying on your knowledge of a manufactured history they pack kid’s heads with.
July 10, 2012 at 3:15 am
You can pick all the old bones of southern slavery you want to, by all means continue. It won’t absolve the north of their guilt and hypocrisy in slave ownership or their issue with brutal child labor during industrialization. That industrialization led to protective tariffs and the South being run over by the North. You want to talk about despotic regimes? Northern hypocrites should certainly be included there. Maybe there will be another blog where you will meet another well-read awesome person (like Tony) that will give you some more history lessons on how the North took full advantage of immigrants and their children. The North bullied the South til the South finally left. Maybe someone will remind you that blacks were not at all welcome in some Northern States. You want to plead your case by offering specific sections of Secession Declarations? Go read the laws of Ohio and Illinois that prohibited blacks from migrating and then tell us how racist the South was.
Keep picking those bones of slavery in the South but don’t ever look at the sweatshops and mines full of white 10-years old workers that were being worked half to death for a few pennies and were sleeping in the Northern streets. The more you people try to convince us the north was full of moral do-gooders is the more we will call you hypocrites.
February 6, 2010 at 8:09 am
Tony Barnett: And I don’t know what “the right of a people to abolish a Government” has to do with abolishing slavery.
That only makes sense if you don’t think blacks are people. They have the right of self-determination, and the right to throw off the yoke of oppression. The Southern States could have found a way to end slavery peacefully, but did not.
February 6, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Morally yes. Legally no. Not at that time in history. And these are legal documents you keep quoting. Which brings me back to my point. The South was legally within their rights to succeed.
February 6, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Tony Barnett: Morally yes. Legally no.
Gee whiz, Tony Barnett. That is completely ahistorical. The Declaration was a justification for what would be considered an illegal rebellion against a lawful sovereign. Slaves and their allies had as much every to overthrow a despotic government as the Colonists did.
February 6, 2010 at 8:25 am
Tony Barnett: Though wrong, the idea of “white supremacy” was not limited to VP Stephens or Southern whites:
You had stated that the cause of the Civil War was states rights, and the right of self-determination. You were wrong on both counts. The very foundation of the Confederacy was the preservation of slavery. Look again at this utterly monstrous perversion of the Declaration of Independent in the Causes of Secession:
“We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity.”
They are twisting the words of the most sublime document of the modern world and turning it into a racist tract. They said over and over again, that the core of their beliefs was white supremacy.
Whether Lincoln was a racist or not, he didn’t hold hereditary slaves and it wasn’t the foundation of the Republic he believed in, but “all men are created equal.” This is an argument of diversion and introduced so that you won’t have to respond to the point. The Confederates made their reasons very very clear. Just like the Declaration of Independence, they made of point of it so everyone would know. They didn’t hide their reasons. They wrote them down.
Most soldiers fight for reasons other than politics. Though some clearly fought to preserve white supremacy, others fought out of loyalty to their states or their fellows, a sense of being invaded by a foreign power, to put on a face bravery in a jingoistic society, or even for the adventure. But the leaders who instituted the rebellion clearly did it to preserve their slave property. We know this because they said so in their official documents of secession—in their own words.
February 6, 2010 at 6:09 pm
The belief that the white race was superior to the black race and Native Americans was very common in 1860 America. In the north, in the south, all over. In the 30+ years that I’ve researched U.S. Census records and other historical documents, it’s become clear that most Southern whites did not own slaves. I’m sure there was a lot of flag waving on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. The majority of slaves were owned by wealthy white plantation owners. . There’s no doubt that these planters had a lot of influence in Southern politics. Many Southern military leaders, Robert E. Lee being one, were against secession. But given a choice of fighting for or against their homeland, they chose to defend their homes and loved one’s against the aggression of Union forces. Since the founding of our country a man’s 1st loyalty was to his home state. Our founding fathers never intended a federal government with the kind of power it wields today. The union of these states were meant to benefit not to dictate. Based on our Declaration of Independence the Southern states had every right to secede. Any state did. North, South, free or slave. Even more right than our founding fathers had when declaring independence from Great Britain. Many northern newspapers agreed. Lincoln disagreed. Many would label his government despotic. The tyranny being the illegal invasion and slaughter of hundreds of thousands. But instead of going down in history as a racist that declared a war in which over 620,000 Americans perished, he’s revered as the savior of the black race and champion of national unity. All that plus I have to look at his face everytime I pull a $5 bill out of my pocket.
February 7, 2010 at 9:07 am
Tony Barnett: Based on our Declaration of Independence the Southern states had every right to secede.
Blacks and their allies had every right and every duty to overthrow the despotic and cruel slave regime; through a redress of grievances, if possible, but we know that wasn’t possible. Read the Causes of Secession again.
Your reading of Lincoln is ahistorical also. Lincoln knew that the burgeoning population of the free states would eventually be able to end slavery through democratic means. Southern slaveowners knew this too. Union meant the eventual end of slavery. It wasn’t war Lincoln sought, but the preservation of the Union, while Southerners declared the foundation of their new Confederacy was white supremacy.
And knowing the long, sad history of Republics, lose the Union and lose the Republic. So everyone’s freedom was inextricably tied together.
February 14, 2011 at 4:46 pm
So, Zack. States Rights was not a big concern at all leading up to the Civil War, eh?
I would like to introduce you to a Confederate Army brigadier general that was killed at the Battle of Franklin on November 30, 1864.
His name?
States Rights Gist
February 7, 2010 at 1:05 pm
If by “ahistorical” you mean historically inaccurate you are wrong. If your meaning is that it had no bearing on the outcome of history, perhaps. It was simply to illustrate that Lincoln’s motive in declaring war against the seceding states was not the abolishment of slavery. And it’s irrelevant why the seceding states seceded. It was their right as sovereign states. Lincoln’s argument that it wasn’t is full of holes. War was declared by Lincoln. Why? To preserve the union of states. Why did the South participate in the war? They were invaded. When you add it all up how does that equal “The Civil War was fought to end slavery”???
February 8, 2010 at 7:23 am
Tony Barnett: It was simply to illustrate that Lincoln’s motive in declaring war against the seceding states was not the abolishment of slavery.
It was the preservation of the Union. But everyone knew (hoped or feared) that Union meant the eventual end of slavery through democratic means.
Tony Barnett: it’s irrelevant why the seceding states seceded.
You brought it up, and then blamed the history books. That’s why we entered this thread. That’s why we responded directly to your own claims.
Tony Barnett: The reasons there are so many misconceptions about the Confederate battle flag, slavery and why the Civil War was fought are many. First, history books are written by the winning side.
So we provided evidence not from what was written by the victors, but in the official declaration of causes.
Tony Barnett: And as many northern historians and special interest groups would have you believe, the primary reason was not slavery.
But the reasons the South rebelled were declared openly, “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery,” and “We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment.” That is, slavery and white supremacy.
Tony Barnett: When you add it all up how does that equal “The Civil War was fought to end slavery”???
The South fought the Civil War to *preserve* slavery and white supremacy. We know this because they openly declared their causes. The North fought for Union knowing that if the country broke apart, then the Republic was doomed as all other Republics in history had been doomed, that everyone’s freedoms were inextricably bound together, including those of the slaves, who would eventually win their freedom if the Republic was preserved.
February 8, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Zach, you’re not understanding that there would not have been a war if Lincoln had not declared one and invaded the South. Slavery would have died out a little slower but with a better plan for integration and/or resettlement of the freed slaves and without the oppression, resentments and hardships brought on by war and “reconstruction”. I’m not so sure about the north, but I for one believe the South would would have flourished, especially by not having to subsidize northern industry. They haven’t done bad for themselves to date despite reconstruction and tax dollars that go north and don’t come back.
February 8, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Tony Barnett: you’re not understanding that there would not have been a war if Lincoln had not declared one and invaded the South.
The Confederate started hostilities when they fired on federal forces at Fort Sumter. They knew exactly what they were doing, and they led their country into ruin.
But that is irrelevant to your claim:
Tony Barnett: And as many northern historians and special interest groups would have you believe, the primary reason was not slavery.
Though there were undoubtedly many reasons for war, but the inescapabel truth is that the Southern position was “thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery,” and the “corner-stone” of the Confederacy rested upon white supremacy.
February 8, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Zack, Like state rights, you’re a lost cause. We could go on like this forever without convincing one another that our stance on the issue is the correct one. So I’m going to secede from this debate and hope you don’t attack.
February 8, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Tony Barnett: We could go on like this forever without convincing one another that our stance on the issue is the correct one.
Perhaps not. You made a claim. It’s been shown to be false by reference to the most relevant documents, the official declarations of Causes of Secession. If you still won’t retract your claim, then this information is provided for others who might read this thread.
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens 1861: Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea {from Jeffersonian equality}; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition.
February 9, 2010 at 1:35 pm
The claim was that slavery was not the key issue in The Civil War. It was one of the dividing issues between north and South. It may have been paramount in the minds of Southern politicians when dicussing the reasons for secession. But the abolishment of slavery was NOT the reason Lincoln declared war and invaded the South beginning the bloodiest war in U.S. history. It was the Southern states exercising their right of secession. Lincoln said so himself. His actions would have been the same regardless of WHY the South seceded. I’m not arguing that slavery issues weren’t important in the South’s decision to secede. Only that it wasn’t the key issue of why the war was fought. If you had asked most northern soldiers why they were fighting the war, I doubt many would have said to free the slaves. Abolishionists were a minority in the north. Had you asked a rebel soldier why, I doubt most would have said to keep my slaves since most white Southerners didn’t own them anyway. Emancipation was a noble but not a plausible justification for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of brave Americans northern and southern.
February 9, 2010 at 1:52 pm
One could pick and choose phrases and quotes from whatever “relevant documents” they feel support their stance and manipulate it to back up whatever twisted view they may entertain. Been done for many many years. One must objectively look at the whole picture and take in ALL the facts in order to form an accurate opinion of what really occurred and why. Try it Zack, it works.
February 9, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Tony Barnett: If you had asked most northern soldiers why they were fighting the war, I doubt many would have said to free the slaves. Abolishionists were a minority in the north. Had you asked a rebel soldier why, I doubt most would have said to keep my slaves since most white Southerners didn’t own them anyway.
It’s not clear if you are incapable or just unwilling to engage the issue. It was already stated that soldiers often fight for reasons other than politics, out of loyalty, out of comradeship, out of pride, out of a sense of adventure. Nor was our position that the Union went to war to end slavery, but to preserve the Republic; while the Confederacy proclaimed to the world that they fought for white supremacy. Indeed, even after the Civil War, generations of blacks were violently suppressed whenever they attempted to so much as to register to vote.
Tony Barnett: One could pick and choose phrases and quotes from whatever “relevant documents” they feel support their stance and manipulate it to back up whatever twisted view they may entertain.
These aren’t just any documents or phrases, but the declared reasons for secession.
February 9, 2010 at 3:54 pm
I believe I have demonstrated a good ability and certainly a willingness to engage the issue. Not sure where that came from. Zachriel: “…the Confederacy proclaimed to the world that they fought for white supremacy”. Did they? Where? When? It was already stated that SLAVERY was an issue in SECESSION. The act of secession and a declaration of war are not synonymous. That is precisely the sort of manipulation you have based your argument on. What part of the progression of events is throwing you off? I’m not sure that it could be explained in simpler terms, but let me try. Let’s say you paint your house an awful shade of green. There’s no laws or neighborhood association prohibiting it. But I live next door and feel it devalues my property. Everyone on the block may feel the same. But it doesn’t give me the right to bulldoze your house. If I tried, you’d probably want to stop me. Not because you like green so much, but because it’s YOUR house. Does that help?
February 9, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Tony Barnett: Let’s say you paint your house an awful shade of green. There’s no laws or neighborhood association prohibiting it. But I live next door and feel it devalues my property. Everyone on the block may feel the same. But it doesn’t give me the right to bulldoze your house.
Listen to yourself. You just compared painting your house an ugly color to keeping slaves.
February 9, 2010 at 7:33 pm
No, I compared YOU painting YOUR house an ugly color to keeping slaves. You never seem to get it right. If you’re trying to infer that I’m making light of slavery, I’ve already made my stance on that clear. Try again.
February 9, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Tony Barnett: No, I compared YOU painting YOUR house an ugly color to keeping slaves.
That is simply incredible.
You actually made the comparison of painting a house lowering property values with the keeping of slaves. It’s a hopeless analogy, because people do have the right and the duty to fight slavery. Secession based on defending slavery and white supremacy does not meet the Prudence Clause, but enslavement clearly does. It is insufferable injury.
Tony Barnett: Based on our Declaration of Independence the Southern states had every right to secede.
Slaves and all citizens had every right and every duty to overthrow the despotic and cruel slave regime; through a redress of grievances, if possible; but the Causes of Secession make clear that that wasn’t going to happen.
February 9, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Incredible? Thanks Zack. Kinda liked it myself. Seems you could benefit by a little prudence yourself. At no time have I defended slavery yet you continue to try and pin that on me. Let me go on the record as saying slavery is wrong. What i’m saying is: THAT IS NOT WHY THE CIVIL WAR WAS FOUGHT!!!
February 10, 2010 at 7:53 am
Tony Barnett: Let me go on the record as saying slavery is wrong.
That wasn’t in question.
Tony Barnett: THAT IS NOT WHY THE CIVIL WAR WAS FOUGHT!!!
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity
February 11, 2011 at 5:29 pm
I like how you take 21st century morality and apply it retroactively.
Cute.
February 11, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Hey Zach, you need to quit griping about what was happening here 150 years ago and go after the current countries that have slaves. Don’t be a hypocrit.
Current incidences of large-scale slavery and near-slavery:
Sudan
Niger
United Arab Emirates
India
Nepal
Pakistan
Indonesia
Go on. Sic em.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_world.htm
February 13, 2010 at 11:27 pm
I am writing because I as many in here are proud of my heritage. I had ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary war.But I had more that fought in the War of Northern Aggression,they fought in the 31st Ala inf,4thGA Cav, 15thALa inf,1stAla Art..None of them were slave owners.They were not much above a slave themselves,but they loved their state and their states rights.They knew that if the north went unchecked it would lead to what we are seeing today,a diminishing of our rights.My ancestors didn’t ask for the war,But when duty called they answered. Lincoln started the war when he called for troops to invade the south.The Yankee army was brutal raping,and killing civilians,burning churches,taking food from southern farms or burning it.That was done by Mr Lincolns army. The funny thing is if the Confederacy was so blood thirsty wanting to keep slaves why isn’t there credible accounts of war atrocities committed by the Southern Army,simple the south had more respect for the rights and property of others.In my home town of Tarrant Ala, a detachment of Wilson’s raiders came through on their way to the iron works in Tannehil and burned a church.And as for the ones that said the South was losers. If Jackson would have lived and Gen Early would have taken the hill at Gettysburg like he was instructed it would have been another Fredricksburg. If you look at all of the major battles,comparison of troops and supplies the South handed the north their ass.Anyway back to the main subject the battle flag to me represents the blood sweat and tears that my ancestors shed for what they believed in and it pisses me off to see that flag disrespected by the klan or skinheads they have no idea what that flag means and don’t really care.But I’ll fly my flag when and where I want to and if ya don’t like it ya kiss me between my back pockets. But don’t confront me because I won’t back down.<<>>
February 14, 2010 at 10:49 am
Well sc. I will take a look at that web site.Though I’m still certain I won’t understand. What the CSA thinks it’s battling for. As far as the bible belt goes. I don’t understand Praise the Lord and hate the blacks. Is that in the Bible? Not the Bible I read. And what does it mean The south will rise again? They said that when Carter was voted in. Carter did nothing. The cause is over. The flags belong in a meuseum.
March 28, 2010 at 9:10 am
who said anything about hating blacks? a confederate is a confederate, a skinhead is a skinhead.
December 3, 2011 at 1:26 am
Mr.B
No the Bible doesn’t say we should hate blacks it says that we should love everyone. But just because we fly our Confederate flag doesn’t mean we hate blacks, it doesn’t mean that we are racist ether. The flag does not belong in a meuseum. THis is suppose to be a free country and a free country should be aloud to fly whatever the want
February 14, 2010 at 10:31 pm
MrB
You need to look up the definition of heritage.Do I believe the remnants of original flags should be in museums? sure.But as for the flag not representing heritage is B.S. it may not be your heritage but it is mine because as I said earlier my ancestors fought under those flags. And the remark of “Praise the Lord and hate the blacks”. No it isn’t in the Bible but the majority here doesn’t hate the blacks from what I’ve read. I don’t hate anyone but I do hate peoples opinions especially when they are trying to force their views onto me.
March 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Agreed. It gets me running hot when people who don’t have a clue try to tell me what MY heritage is, and what I should do with symbols of that heritage. I can tell them what to do with their opinions, and although it’s a dark place, it has nothing to do with museums. If you have no significant heritage of your own does it make you feel better to trash those who do? Just trying to understand your motivation.
February 16, 2010 at 1:57 pm
I have read alot of these comments and I do believe in freedom of speech and that everyone has their own opinions and views on this matter… I just have a question if someone has a confederate flag on their wall stating “If the south would have won we would have had it made” how is that not racist??? what other key factors could that be obtaining to other than the slavery issue?
February 16, 2010 at 8:28 pm
It may have a different meaning to someone else, but to me it means economic wealth and greater freedom. King cotton and oil funded the growth and industrialization of the United States. Most cotton was grown in the south. The lion’s share of oil was drilled and refined in the south. By not having to subsidize northern industry with southern tax dollars the Confederacy would have become the wealthiest and most powerful country on earth. State sovereignty would have been preserved leaving the south the true democracy envisioned by our founding fathers. The federal government we have now is large, inefficient, oppressive and directed by the wealthy special interest groups that finance the political campaigns of “our” politicians. Electoral votes, not popular votes elect our president. Popular vote is so that you feel you live in a democracy where your vote counts. Never seen a flag like you refer to, but that’s what it would mean to me.
February 17, 2010 at 2:22 pm
wow you all have an opinion huh…
February 17, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Some people who think that the southern cross suggest racism or slavery are totally wrong. It symbolized the southern states of America which had the right to secede. In Europe, this flag symbolizes the country music, the folk music, the rock. it has been used last year by Kid Rock last year many times on concerts. There were no protest or movemen t of dissatisfaction among the thousands of spectators or fan.
February 18, 2010 at 6:12 am
I’ve read most of these arguements and I wish everyone could find some common ground. It is a flag: it has several meanings and really doesn’t matter. What matters is trying to find a way to raise our children to be better people than we are. That means leaving the racism behind us and have all men and women regardless of race give each other a little respect for who they are now, not what their circumstances would have been a hundred years ago. Good Luck to all of you – there’s so many more important things you are not seeing.
March 9, 2010 at 1:39 pm
You’re right Nina, there are other important things in life. But closing your eyes won’t make the boogeyman go away. We need to understand what has happened in our past, why it happened, and what changed when it happened if we want to keep what’s important to us.
February 18, 2010 at 1:42 pm
i can understand why people might take offence to the confederate flag..i live in miami,fl and i know alot of people that fly the confederate flag.. but alot of people down here fly it for the rong reson they fly it to be racis..but alot of others dont!! but its thos who fly it just to fly it that make other people think its for racism!!
February 19, 2010 at 9:47 pm
rosemary I may be misunderstanding your point. But how do you know That,”but its those who fly it just to fly it that make other people think its for racism”. I mean if they aren’t in a skinhead rally or klan march how could they be even construed as flying it as part of a show of racism Which when the skinheads or klan uses the flag this way pisses me off to no end.
February 21, 2010 at 2:15 am
so i just got kicked out of a club in TEXAS for having a confederate flag shirt on. i guess i cant show pride no more for my ancestors that fought in civil war.
March 9, 2010 at 1:42 pm
What club was that? I want to be sure I don’t go there.
February 22, 2010 at 2:56 pm
On the confederate flag there is a X. Was the x originally supposed to be snakes? What is the actual meaning.. 13 stars? What the X means.. I just want true meaning.. My tattoo artist said the X was originally supposed to be 2 snakes.
February 24, 2010 at 11:28 am
First, this are no snakes but a catholic sign Sint Andrew’s cross. Sint Andrew’s cross is a very much used symbol in the heraldic. Some southerners thougth it was put on the flag because a part of the population came from Scotland (as it is in the Union Jack). But this is obviously wrong you can find Sint Andrew’s cross at the time on many flags which are not connected with Scotland;
February 23, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Heya nice update. Did you tivo last nights O’Rielly Factor? That’s some great blogging material lol. Later
February 24, 2010 at 8:54 am
y do u guys argue over it so much anyway
March 19, 2010 at 7:54 am
Gosh, I hope we’re not arguing, but just stating opinion. Our statements will not change History and often history is opinion to the rights and wrongs of what actually happened.
February 24, 2010 at 8:06 pm
I have a Soical Studies Project do on Monday, it is about events that happened in the Civil War. Does anyone have any suggestions?
February 25, 2010 at 3:48 pm
not me sorry i never liked social studies so i didnt listen…=/
March 2, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Alot of these Post are from people born in the south. They tend to support the reasoning of the civil war, which I never understood why it was a civil war, should we call it the uncivil war. CSA was fighting for freedom so they could later invade central and then south america. But yet the north was the bad guys?
March 4, 2010 at 5:44 pm
How is invading Central or South America any worse than invading North America and committing genocide on the Native Americans? CSA was fighting in defense of an invading northern army in a war declared by a northern president. It was called the Civil War in the north. It was called the War of Northern Aggression in the South. It’s very clear to most historians why the Native Americans supported and fought with the CSA. They had been victimized by the ruthless aggression and greed of U.S. expansionism for many many generations. I totally agree that war is uncivil. Anyone who has been to war will attest to that. Nothing at all romantic or glorious about it. Yet what are your choices when confronted by aggression? Watch your homes burn, your women raped, your sons slaughtered? Let yourself, your family and future generations forced into submission by a government and it’s policies that go against what you believe to be right and just? Or fight to defend against that aggressor? Yes, I’m from the South and damned proud to be. One of the sources of that pride is the fact that my ancestors made the decision to fight in defense of their rights. Even today it would be hard to find a soldier more ready and willing to risk his life in the defense of what he feels is right than the Southerner. Victory in a war doesn’t mean that you were right. Just means you get your way and the right to write the history books.
March 5, 2010 at 7:18 am
Still going on about that? They formally declared their causes of Secession, slavery and white supremacy.
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity
March 5, 2010 at 6:05 pm
For a couple of phrases taken out of context, you seem to assign them undue importance. No need to run them further into the ground. I understood where you were coming from and where you were trying to go with it the first time. Your opinion would be a little more interesting to me if you were to research all events and facts that created the differences between the north and South as well as actions taken by Lincoln prior to sucession. At least come up with something new and more convincing.
March 5, 2010 at 6:24 pm
http://www.scvcamp469-nbf.com/question&answerlink.htm
March 3, 2010 at 3:38 pm
thank you mr.B at least someone understands!!!
March 19, 2010 at 7:44 am
you’re welcome !
March 3, 2010 at 7:27 pm
WOW I LIVE IN CANADA AND I JUST PUT A Confederate Flag ON MY TRUCK SHOULD I REMOVE IT? I LIKE THE LOOK OF THE FLAG, NOT racis..
March 19, 2010 at 7:59 am
Yes please do remove it. Some might cosiderate as racism. such as the nazi’s used a japanese symbol for happiness and has forever change to one of hatered.
March 3, 2010 at 7:31 pm
DONT YOU REMBER, THE The Dukes of Hazzard
March 5, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Folks, please just go read my article about what the ‘confederate flag’ truly stands for… at the link below :
http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/FLAG/confederateflag.htm
John Degnan
Teacher : King James Bible Fellowship
Ellabell, GA
KJBF@comcast.net
March 5, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Tony Barnett: For a couple of phrases taken out of context, you seem to assign them undue importance.
They are hardly out of context. They are both *formal declarations*.
Mississippi: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery
It’s hard to misconstrue a *formal declaration* that specifically states their position is not just about slavery, but “thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery“.
Texas: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity;
And it’s hard to misconstrue a *formal declaration* that purposefully perverts the language of the Declaration of Independence.
Tony Barnett: At least come up with something new and more convincing.
You keep making the same fallacious arguments, so the answer is the same. The South seceded in order to preserve slavery and white supremacy. We know this because they said so, formally. You have failed to grasp this fundamental truth about that period.
March 9, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Didn’t need a formal declaration to thoroughly identify the source of your contention and discord, Zack. Like your position, your bloomers are awry. Open your eyes, grasp the fundamental hem and extract them from their hiding place. Have a nice day. =)
March 6, 2010 at 8:50 pm
“There is a class of people [in the South], men, women, and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order.”
“The government of the U.S. has any and all rights which they choose to enforce in war – to take their lives, their homes, their land, their everything…war is simply unrestrained by the Constitution…to the persistent secessionist, why, death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better…
General William T. Sherman
March 6, 2010 at 8:52 pm
“I am with the South in life or in death, in victory or in defeat…… I believe the North is about to wage a brutal and unholy war on a people who have done them no wrong, in violation of the Constitution and the fundamental principles of government. They no longer acknowledge that all government derives its validity from the consent of the governed. They are about to invade our peaceful homes, destroy our property, and inaugurate a servile insurrection, murder our men and dishonor our women. We propose no invasion of the North, no attack on them, and only ask to be left alone.”
General Patrick Cleburne C.S.A.
March 6, 2010 at 8:54 pm
A legitimate union of states “depends for its continuance on the free consent and will of the Sovereign people of each state,” and ” when that consent and will is withdrawn on either part, their union is gone.” Any state forced to remain in a union by military force” can never be a co-equal member of the American Union ” and can be viewed only as a “subject province.”
Daily Union Newspaper, Bangor, Maine Nov. 13, 1860
March 6, 2010 at 8:57 pm
“… every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late. We can give but a faint idea when we say it means the loss of all we now hold most sacred … personal property, lands, homesteads, liberty, justice, safety, pride, manhood. It means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the War, will be impressed by all influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, our maimed veterans as fit objects for their derision, it means the crushing of Southern manhood … to establish sectional superiority and a more centralised form of government, and to deprive us of our rights and liberties.” Gen. Patrick Cleburne C.S.A. … 2 Jan 1864
March 6, 2010 at 9:00 pm
“As for the South, it is enough to say that perhaps eighty per cent. of her armies were neither slave-holders, nor had the remotest interest in the institution. No other proof, however, is needed than the undeniable fact that at any period of the war from its beginning to near its close the South could have saved slavery by simply laying down its arms and returning to the Union.”
General John B. Gordon, from his book, Causes of the Civil War.
March 6, 2010 at 9:03 pm
“We feel that our cause is just and holy; we protest solemnly in the face of mankind that we desire peace at any sacrifice save that of honour and independence; we ask no conquest, no aggrandizement, no concession of any kind from the States with which we were lately confederated; all we ask is to be let alone; that those who never held power over us shall not now attempt our subjugation by arms.”
President Jefferson Davis – 29 April 1861
March 6, 2010 at 9:06 pm
“Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand.” General Robert E. Lee to Governor Stockdale of Texas
March 6, 2010 at 9:08 pm
“The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory. Destroy its books, its culture, its history. Then have somebody write new books, manufacture a new culture, invent a new history. Before long the nation will begin to forget what it is and what it was.”
Milan Kundera
March 6, 2010 at 9:09 pm
“The Principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself, though it may be at another time and in another form.” President Jefferson Davis, C.S.A.
March 6, 2010 at 9:12 pm
“The South is a land that has known sorrows; it is a land that has broken the ashen crust and moistened it with her tears; a land scarred and riven by the plowshare of war and billowed with the graves of her dead; but a land of legend, a land of song, a land of hallowed and heroic memories.
To that land every drop of my blood, every fiber of my being, every pulsation of my heart is consecrated forever. I was born of her womb, I was nourished at her breast, and, when my last hour shall come, I pray God that I may be pillowed upon her bosom and rocked to sleep within her tender and encircling arms.”
Edward W. Carmack, of Tennessee, September 1916.
March 16, 2010 at 5:29 pm
As a South Carolinian I stopped taking this post seriously by the third paragraph when it implied that there have been no racists in Mississippi since 1894!
March 19, 2010 at 8:15 am
I have never condoned what America has done to the Native American, and most history books lie about the greatness of the rise of the American Nation. This blog is however still about the meaning of the Flag of the south and the battle flag, and my statement and opinion remains unchanged. I have seen racism involving the battle flag that so many people display. I have seen white, blacks, and foreigners become very uncomfortable when that flag is waved.So why does anyone continue to do so. Because They Are A Racis. The flag belong in a mueseum
March 21, 2010 at 3:09 pm
I have seen the flag waved for several years, and everyone I have seen owning one looks as though they don’t associate with black people. Looks like racism to me. If this flag were so liberal, why are you southerners covering up the fact that any trading or taxes imposed on the south came from the brutal work from slaves in the south. That is the ERA of the confederate flag,so just be real and say you southerners want someone else to do all of your chores. What if whites were being lynched and blacks were wearing green shorts? Wouldn’t everytime you seen a black person wearing green shorts make you fell uncomfortable. Thankyou
March 21, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Ms. Black,as wrong as slavery was, you must remember that 80% of the whites in the south didn’t own slaves. Many had come to this country as indentured servants themselves and worked hard for abusive masters to earn their freedom, sometimes picking cotton alongside black slaves. It was the wealthy planters that had the most to lose by abolishment of slavery. And it was the planters who held influence in southern politics. The poor whites fought northern troops to defend their homes and family. It’s not in most history books, but many blacks and non whites fought for the Confederacy for the same reason. Lincoln was not the great liberator that many believe he was. He had other reasons for emancipation. The south was considering freedom for slaves who fought for the south. Great Britian and France ( who had freed their slaves earlier ) were thinking of allying with the south. It’s unfortunate that some hate groups have dishonored a flag that a lot of brave men fought and died under. It’s very evident that much of the wealth paid in tariffs to the north came from slave labor. And for that reason I don’t think you could find one wealthy northern industrialist benefitting from those tariffs that was an abolishionist. What it boils down to is the greed of the rich. Everyone else gets caught up in it and pays the biggest price. The hardships imposed on white southerners during reconstuction impacted the poor whites more than the wealthy. I believe many of them blamed blacks for their situation when they should have realized it was the greed of the rich. If you think about it, it’s still that way today. And to keep it that way lines are drawn between races, ethnicities, cultures, religions and anything else to keep power in the hands of the wealthy by keeping the poor from unity.
March 22, 2010 at 8:40 am
I’m a white guy and I feel uncomfortable in green shorts so I know what you mean. As much as that was humor I agree with your statement. A change of fate as it were, and history would read a bit different. What would happen if the Wayan brothers were to write a movie script satire that whites were forced into slavery in Africa. White folk haveing to chase down lions to feed their black master. As much as I’m serious about the flags belong in a museum, I do have a sense of humor.
March 25, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Listen this flag is the souths history, its where are grandparents or great grandparents or even great great granparents fought for or lived by. yes the south was alot bout slavery, cause we owned them we brought them over here and paid for them. they belonged to us. Nobody in this whole country wants to admit it but there were white slaves to and it wasnt due to treason it was due to not having money or shelter so they gave themelves to a master who in turn made em work. sure the slavery wasnt heaven and ill admit people were mistreated. but hell the masters owned em. Yes the southern states have kkk and other racist cults but its all bull. I have a flag that is on my truck my reason for flying it is cause its my familys past. It shows my heritage. Im tired of black people wanting to fight or start an argument cause they think its disrespectful to them cause they think its a racist symbol. well u know what im tired of them messing around with white women and thinking we owe them something for the torture there ancestors went thru. even tho some of yalls white ancestors were slaves to. cause u know what that was over 150 years ago they didnt go through it. not in america. so we dont owe them a damn thing. We all need to stop arguing bout something that is not an issue when bin laden is killing americans across seas because we got his ally. so everybody grow up and stop beleiving that black people have the right to call me a honky and i cant call them a N*&#%@.
March 28, 2010 at 4:13 pm
The beginning of “reconstruction”: Calvin S. Crozier was born in Brandon, Mississippi on August 1840 and died in Newberry September 8, 1865. A monument was erected at Rosemont Cemetery with the following statement:
“After the surrender of the Confederate Armies, while on the way to his home in Texas from a Federal prison he was called upon at the Railroad Station at Newberry, S.C. on the night of 7 September 1865 to protect a young white woman temporarily under charge from gross insults offered by a Negro Federal soldier of the garrison stationed there.
A difficulty ensued in which the Negro was slightly cut. The infuriated soldiers seized a citizen of Newberry upon which they were about the execute savage revenge when Crozier came promptly forward and avowed his own responsibility for the deed, thus refusing to accept safety from allowing a stranger to receive the violence intended for himself.
He was hurried in the nighttime to the river bivaouac of the regiment to which the soldier belonged was kept under guard all night, was not allowed communication with any citizen, was condemned to die without even the form of a trial and was shot to death abut daylight the following morning and his body mutilated.”
March 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm
“We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal” Hmm. Now doesn’t that ring a bell? Oh, yeah! the constitution.All you reb losers cam go jump in a hole. The treasonous symbol of human slavery and oppression now flies over the state capitols of the south. Only one word is fit for this treachery: TREASON. I’m only thirteen, yet even I know that this goes against everything we and the founding fathers stand for as a nation. I have four words for all you southerners that are too stupid to know it: THE WAR IS OVER. So hoist down your loser flag and get with the program.
March 30, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Does anyone know how to spell F*** Y** yankee?
March 30, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Oh, I apologize son. Didn’t see your age when I replied. Live long enough and you will learn the truth.
March 29, 2010 at 3:31 pm
We went on a 20 hour road trip, through many states where my son saw many angry people staring us down, giving us dirty looks, and their trucks had the confederate flag emblem….
Lets make no mistake here. Anyone waving that thing around is a skin head racist, pure and simple, and they are proud of it, wearing their racism on their sleave.
now, I did not want to judge, but after driving 20 hours, and seeing how people who wave confederate flags act, well, hey, my son was forced to drawn his own conclusion with his own eyes.
When are people going to learn….
But the good news is, racism in this country is not rewarded. Most of the racists I know end up shooting themselves in the foot, and live a life a resentment.
March 29, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Those kind of people make me just as angry if not more so than the extremists in foreign countries who desecrate the U.S. flag. The extremists judge all Americans by the actions of a few.
March 30, 2010 at 8:18 am
I hope that Mr. B and anyone else that thinks that the CSA is lost in the dust and that the war is over does look into our CONFEDERATE GOVERNMENT ( go to ConfederateStatesOfAmerica.org) and see that the chances of the south remaining in the YankeeUnion are very small. And don’t even think that the Union (usa) will stop secession by force of the army. Why? 3 good reasons are: 1, 3/4 of the army are southern men and women, they would not want to destroy their homeland, 2, why would they fight for the liberal guys that prosecute them for doing something unfair to a terrorist, 3, most of them are conservative. And our government states that we are strictly against slavery and racism(witch is true). I’m not racist and I fly the flag high.
March 30, 2010 at 12:02 pm
It has been estimated that over 65,000 Southern blacks were in the Confederate ranks. Over 13,000 of these, “saw the elephant” also known as meeting the enemy in combat. These Black Confederates included both slave and free. The Confederate Congress did not approve blacks to be officially enlisted as soldiers (except as musicians), until late in the war. But in the ranks it was a different story. Many Confederate officers did not obey the mandates of politicians, they frequently enlisted blacks with the simple criteria, “Will you fight?” Historian Ervin Jordan, explains that “biracial units” were frequently organized “by local Confederate and State militia Commanders in response to immediate threats in the form of Union raids…”. Dr. Leonard Haynes, a African-American professor at Southern University, stated, “When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you’ve eliminated the history of the South.”
April 2, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Well, Rostan said it well enough. Tired of them messin around with the white women. That’s exactly the southern mentality we’ve been talking about those are the ones who fly the conferate flags. Any woman of proper age has the right to be with who they want regardless of color of skin.
As far as SC is concerned, I don’t believe the south will over leave the USA not in my life time, or ever.
April 2, 2010 at 10:01 pm
I just took a peak at csa.org and I found it to be a joke. The CIB. give me a break. The requests of turning over half of the stimulus money from 2008.Laughable! What I didn’t find is a CSA financial report. How much has the CSA collected? How much has it paid out, and to whom ? Any can create a web site of retoric crap and solicit funds. Maybe our real government should do an audit.
April 2, 2010 at 10:30 pm
My goodness, I just looked up what appears to be the head of the CSA. Vance Beaudreau seems to be a nut job criminal. Follow him and you’re following a David Coresh or Jim Jones.
April 4, 2010 at 5:33 pm
In the documentary, “Africans in America,” an African-American woman put it best when she said, “Slavery was not a Southern problem; it was an American problem.” The South did not create slavery—Northern ship merchants did that.
April 6, 2010 at 8:25 am
The whole debate over the Confederate flag is one of ignorance. Yes, originally the flag was simply a battle flag but, after the Civil War it was just a relic; something for Southern men to hold as a sign of their allegiance to the Confederacy and the politics that surrounded it(more power to the states etc). Later, the KKK decided to use it and began the process that has now made anybody who doesn’t know anything think immediately RACISM. It really was not until later that the flag re-opened the wound. For instance, the state of Georgia changed its flag in ’56 to the “stars and bars” during the Civil Rights movement and after a whole hoopla of complaining had it changed twice to what it is now. Which to a simpleton just looks different. But if you know things, then you would see that the “new” Georgia flag has more Confederate ties than the battle flag. It’s the freaking 1st National Flag of the Confederacy just with a different seal. People don’t care about it because they don’t know so it doesn’t bother them. Further more I have seen almost as many blacks fly the stars and bars as I have whites, not because they hate themselves for being black but because the flag mostly is a symbol of rebellion and independence. Which is what the South did, they rebelled from a government ever increasing in power, trying to build a CONFEDERACY of independent states with a smaller central government. I still to this day fly the ole’ battle flag with pride, I have many friends who are black or Jewish or whatever else, I’m no racist I simply adore the fundamental political stances taken by the Southern States in the 1800’s kind of. On a little side note think about this. If it were not for the slave trade would black people in America be as athletic as they are now? Think about it.
April 10, 2010 at 4:28 am
With your logic,what would be the next step…enslave white people of America to get rid of rampant obesity? or black people should thank white racist for the slavery old times…
Krazykracker you surely did not think what you said,how compassionate if you did!
April 10, 2010 at 4:13 am
The whole debate of this flag is obviously not about the historical facts but surely about the perceptions that people have TODAY about this symbol;it would be hypocrisy to deny the strong racist symbol tied with this flag,but of course hypocrisy is not illegal..
April 10, 2010 at 11:08 am
Hypocrisy is not illegal yet, golflouis, but give our federal government a little time and I’m sure that will be taken care of. You can thank Mr. Lincoln and the hypocritical New Englanders who put him in office for the power of the federal government to do that. I call New Englanders hypocrites because they had began talks of secession from the union as early as 1804. When the War of 1812 caused the U.S. to enact a trade embargo against England, commerce in New England suffered. The war was going badly for the U.S. and in October of 1814 delegates of the New England states met in secret at the Hartford Convention to procure secession of the New England states. The governor of Massachusetts sent a secret mission to discuss terms with the British for a separate peace. The convention ended with a report and resolutions that said New England had a “duty” to assert its authority over unconstitutional infringements on its sovereignty. Massachusetts actually sent three commissioners to Washington, D.C. to negotiate these terms. When they arrived in February, 1815, news of Tennessean Andrew Jackson’s stunning victory by a rag-tag army of 2,131 southerners against an army of over 10,000 of the world’s mightiest at the Battle of New Orleans, and the signing of the Treaty of Ghent, preceded them and, consequently, their presence in the capital seemed both ludicrous and subversive. They quickly returned. Thereafter, both Hartford Convention and Federalist Party became synonymous with disunion, secession, and treason. 47 yrs. later New England commerce, which was heavily dependent upon subsidies generated by U.S. tariffs imposed on the Southern states trade with Europe, was once again threatened by the secession of Southern states from the union. Except for a few fanatical extemists, New England didn’t have a problem with the institution of slavery as long as they benefitted from it.
April 10, 2010 at 4:10 pm
As a life long Southerner and proud decendant of Confederates who gave everything in defense of their families and homeland, I feel I am more qualified than most northerners to assess the meaning of the Confederate flag. Especially those who have spent no or little time in the South and get their information from Hollywood movies and historical accounts in school books authored by an authority which deems what is to be heard and what is not, and whose intentions are to justify northern aggression and paint the south in a dark light. It’s apparent to rational sensibilites that the motivating force behind stubbornly unyielding opposition of anything associated with the Confederate cause is sparked by a feeling of grudging admiration, respect and hidden desire of a noble heritage. A close friend of mine, who for many years was active in Civil war reenactment, stated that at every event there were problems getting enough participants (even among northerners and foreigners) to fill the ranks of the Union Army. Southerners were usually enlisted to fill the void. Most reenactors are Civil War history enthusiasts that were inspired by curiosity and a love of history to conduct extensive research on the era, and have come to understand the true history of the Southern rebellion and the courage it must have taken to endure the risks, sacrifices and hardships suffered by the men of the South (blacks, Native Americans and recent immigrants as well as whites) in defense of their beloved rights, families and homeland. Prior to the War of Northern Aggression, as it was referred to in the South, racisim existed in erroneous beliefs by most southern AND northern whites that the black race was inferior. This perception was due to cultural differences between those of European and African heritage and the lack of educational and economic opportunities afforded black slaves. There was little if any hatred toward blacks in the south until near the end of and after the war when emancipation of the slave population by Lincoln and lack of a plan for the transition from slavery to integration into a free society resulted in chaos. Slaves began to riot, loot and take what they needed in order to survive. Many turned on and murdered whites. Rather than trying to quell the violence, northern authorities looked upon the situation as just retribution on the South for it’s “treason”. Lincoln and the north’s response to the plight of southern whites was to constitute “reconstruction” which placed northern “carpetbaggers”, scalawags and blacks (although it was whites that pulled the strings) in positions of political authority resulting in further economic and civil atrocities against southern whites who were already suffering the effects that years of war and union blockade had on their lives. In response to these atrocities and the federal government’s lack of concern or action, desperation on the part of southern whites (mostly poor whites that never owned slaves nor cared about slavery, but were most affected by the aftermath of the war) prompted the formation of vigilante groups as a means of self preservation. My intent and purpose on this blog is not to demean northerners or blacks or anyone else, but is an attempt to construct an accurate accounting of that period and to create an understanding of why most Southerners have pride in the Confederate flag and the heritage it represents. We aren’t the Southerners you see in newscasts preaching hate and white superiority. I guess the Southern majority just isn’t that newsworthy. We’re the Southerners who graciously accept people for who they are and for what is in their hearts regardless of skin color or country of origin. We have sympathy for those who must be rotting away inside because of the hatred they hold in their hearts. We’re offended by hate groups that use items of our heritage to symbolize their causes and by the media that afford these groups unwarranted publicity. By doing so they cause the unknowing in the world to pass judgement on all Southerners while holding up an ignorant few as representatives. Our history and ideals are our heritage, our code and standards – the things we live by and teach our children. No true Southerner is going to let that be taken away by deception, public opinion or aggression. Ever.
April 10, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Believe me Tony i admire the energy you put wanting to reestablish the facts preceding the civil war;your mission is called resistance in psychology and could end up beeing deleterious to your health.You seem to me a person very well prepared and expert on the recent past history of the USA,this alone could be a reason to sublimate the debate for you since you seem to know the truth;what else one should be most satisfied with in his heart but to know the truth.
Many other sad situations followed up the resolution of the civil war,situations that crystalized the public opinion obviously until today.Image and perceptions are what is left and become the reality for most people;you know like me that the threat of ignorance is no deterrent for the believers..sometimes with the human resistance factor you get the opposite results.
Knowledge of the truth gets you a fulfilment that no debate ever will.
April 25, 2010 at 3:48 am
One thing I can think of that would satisfy me more than knowing the truth is for everyone to know the truth. My purpose in this blog isn’t self-serving. It’s an attempt to open eyes to what has and is occuring in our country. You must realize a problem in order to repair one. What better teacher than history? “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it ~ George Santayana. But when it comes to history, do a little research of your own. A co-worker who was raised and educated in Mexico once stated that he was taught history differently than we are in Texas. The true history of Texas probably lies somewhere near the middle of the way he was taught it, and the way we were taught in Texas schools. Fulfilment, in my case, would be in the knowledge that I left this world in a better state than when I entered it. It would be deleterious to my health knowing that I didn’t try.
April 10, 2010 at 8:54 pm
okay….please read….
ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…The WAGES of SIN is DEATH, but the FREE GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Christ Jesus our Lord…If you CONFESS with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved…But to ALL who BELIEVED Him and ACCEPTED Him, He gave the right to become children of God…Look! I [Jesus] stand at the door and knock. If you hear my [Jesus] voice and open the door, I [Jesus] will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends…
If you BELIEVE THIS, you can pray this prayer out loud and mean it (sincerely), Jesus will save you and give you a new life IN Him.
Prayer out loud:
God, I believe that You sent Your only begotton Son, Jesus into this world to die for my sins. I confess that I have sinned against You, a holy God. Please forgive me of my sins, and take me as Your child. Jesus, please COME IN to my heart and life and be my LORD and SAVIOR. In Jesus name,I pray. Amen.
BELIEVE…All of your sins will be forgiven if you pray sincerely to God, He will hear you.
It is not religion…it is a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with the living God through His precious Son, Jesus Christ! Repent and Believe!
April 10, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Minnie Mouse,the only moments of eternity you will ever encounter are through love and compassion in this life of yours;at the present time you rather seem willing to loose time and energy in the delusion of an afterlife or a “personal relationship” with an abstract being.
Awareness will tell you that sometimes the ego has subtle ways to seep into one’s way of thinking;just free your mind from the spiritual authorities and slogans and recreate your life everyday,that is the only one that has and will ever be given to you.
April 11, 2010 at 8:08 pm
Ms Mouse;
In as much as my belief in God and my exceptance of Jesus as my personal savior. Your article has no baring on this blog.
April 12, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Tony,
You could not have said it any better. I am from Mississippi and I am proud of our Confederate flag. I had family that fought in the War of Northern Aggression for the Confederacy. I actualy have pictures and documents (the ones that were not burned or destroyed). It is something that will always run thick in my families blood. I know what the flag represents and I associate the flag with standing up for what is right, honesty and loyalty to the people around you. Givin, there are idiots in this world. But no matter how hard they try to take the battle flag away or any of the other 4 confederate flags for that matter. No matter where they put it, stow it away, burn it, whatever. At the end of the day its just a flag, a flag that represents my roots, and my heritage and whats in my heart. And too truly take that away means that they would have to tear my heart out of my chest.
April 19, 2010 at 12:25 am
Hello,
I looked on here because I wanted to know why the confederate flag is becoming more popular. I also wanted to know the reasons why people were flying it. I have always seen it as a “racist” symbol much like many others on here. However, I thought surely people would be flying it for other reasons. I wish I wouldn’t think of racism and bad things when I see it, but it has a very negative image associated with. I am of mixed heritage- black and white- and it really hurts when I see it flown. I do respect the positve reasons it is flown, however, I would hope people would think of others as well.
April 22, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Well, I was born and raised in the north, a “damn yankee”, I don’t have any ancestors that fought the civil war that I know of. I do fly the confederate flag, wear t-shirts with the confederate flag and confederate railroad is on of my all time favorite bands, that being said, I take offence to anyone that thinks “damn yankees” are anti confederate flag. Some of you need to realize it is the liberal whine asses all over this country, north,south,east and west that are against anyone expressing there heritage, weather it is flying a flag, hunting or fishing
April 23, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Well I to was born in the north (brooklyn) and was always told by my teachers that the confederate flag was a symbol of hate. They didn’t count on me learning to read in the NYC public school system. When I began to teach myself and read up on the civil war and read the Confederate constitution and compared it to ours….the Confederate one was better. After years of research I now know the truth. Since the health care bill was passed I now proudly fly the Confederate battle flag as well as the National colors on my home. My wife’s not to happy, but she dosn’t mind to much since we live in the forest and you can’t see the flag pol’s from the main road that runs infront of my property……..I guess I have to move my flag pole closer to the road.
April 24, 2010 at 7:40 am
Constitution of the Confederate States: No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.
April 24, 2010 at 11:24 am
For us who aren’t lawyers: bill of attainer; A legislative act pronouncing a person guilty of a crime, usually treason, without trial and subjecting that person to capital punishment and attainder. ~ ex post facto law; ex post facto adj. Latin for “after the fact,” which refers to laws adopted after an act is committed making it illegal although it was legal when done, or increases the penalty for a crime after it is committed. Therefore, if a state legislature or Congress enact new rules of proof or longer sentences, those new rules or sentences do not apply to crimes committed before the new law was adopted. Both acts are also strictly prohibited by the U.S. Constitution. The south knew the days of slavery were numbered. The South was colonized and settled by people predominately of Scottish or Scot-Irish ancestry. The northern colonists were mostly Englishmen. Given the long history of conflict between the two factions helps a little in understanding why the southern states didn’t like having northern will and sentiment imposed on them. Judging from the response on this blog, being Southern is more representative of a set of beliefs and values than of regional origins. It was the same way in 1861. Lincoln flooded the border states and California, even the nation’s capitol, with union troops to prevent further secession. And given the number of blacks who took up arms in defense of the South raises doubt about what we have been told and raises questions about the motive of why facts were withheld in our history books.
April 24, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Someone said that Confederate Constitution was “better.” That Constitution said that slavery could not be outlawed.
no … law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.
April 24, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Well this should get things going….
The reason why people were not taught the truth then is the same as why there not taught the truth today. From Lincoln to Obama, the government knows that as long as they keep the people at each others throat, they woun’t realize that the real threat to liberty and freedom “IS” a large central federal government. The “Nanny state”
Think about how differant this country would have been if any slave who wanted to go back to Africa was given free passage and those who wanted to stay were given full citizenship with all the rights and responsibilities that go along with it. Or what if the south would’ve been protected from carpet baggers and such. If the union army and the freeman’s bureau would’ve never occupied southern cities…there wouldn’t have been a KKK. That could’ve prevented so many years of racial problems.
“If” they wanted to, BUT they didn’t and they don’t today.
How about if the north re-built Atlanta, Richmond, New Orleans or Vicksburg in 1866 as they did Berlin or Tokyo in 1946. Those S.O.B’s killed millions upon millions of people and distroyed entire cities, but we couldn’t do enough for them after they got done distroying half the planet. But in 1866, our own countryman….well we know what happened there.
As long as the south resents the north, the federal govt. is happy. As long as the black man hates and blames the white man for slavery, (regardless of the fact that no toothless scurvy white man {these sailors were a mess}, ever ran into, nor could they have been able to run into, the jungles of Africa to catch a black guy with a speer, club, knife or any weapon, when it was much easier to pay other Africans to do it for them… and this happened hundreds of years ago), the wealthy ,powerful and the govt. are happy. Since the dawn of time, class, ethnic or religious warfare has been used by all governments to control the masses.
There are a millions of “what if’s” or “if only they…”. This entire flag issue pop’s up whenever the govt want’s to deflect your attention so they can play more games with your money and liberty. When I see and hear collage students wearing T-shirts with the communist “hammer and sickel” or a picture of Mao, Cha or the flag of North Vietnam; enemies of our nation within my life time, renting about the confederate battle flag I have to wounder if any of them ever read a book other than “Das capital”.
I’ed like to point out one last thing….now i may be wrong….and i’m sure that somebody will correct me with all due haste….but I don’t recall the “Battle flag” ever flying on a slave ship however, the stars and stripes flew on many slave ships for around 70 or so years.
I shall leave this chat with these thought’s. The Confederate flag, like so many other symbols are part of our nation and its history. I’m sure that most American Indians arn’t to happy with the stars and strips, it wasn’t a symbol of freedom to their people. How about the Japanese Americans on the west coast in 1941 who were put in relocation camps. How about the German and Italian Americans on the East coast who in 1941, were put into re-location camps (look that one up,thats one they don’t teach). Their not yelling and screaming about our flag nor do they see “Old Glory” as a symbol of hate or racism. As good and loyal Americans they have come to grips with the past and except the good with the bad.
My grand parents came here 100 years ago (not in chains) and had to make a place here regardless of all the racial intolerance they suffered. That was then and this is now. With the economy in the toilet, unemployement setting records and so on and so forth, why are we obsessed with what happened 145 years ago. Some people are loosing their minds over the state of our union today.
“Ban the confederate flag”, Ban fat in our food” , “ban salt”, ‘Ban smoking” , “Ban Clothing styles”, “Ban the’N’word”,”Ban this or that kind of music”, “Ban God (except Alla)from all public activities”…..enough already….Freedom isn’t refundable, when you give it up you’ll never get it back.
It’s ironic that the very symbol of the southern rebellion has become a lightining rod for the presivation of the first amendment and the constitution itself.
Take care all and try not to take yourself’s to seriously, learn to laugh at yourself and each other.
P.S. Lee- I said that the Confederate Constitution was “better”…sorry, I should’ve said I liked most of it “better”, I don’t suppory slavery.
P.P.S. I still think the “Battle Flag” is a nice looking flag.
April 25, 2010 at 2:53 am
You’re right about the government wanting division among citizens. United we stand, divided we fall. By the time everyone becomes aware that the true division in our country is between rich and poor, not black and white, Protestant or Catholic, north or south, we won’t have enough freedom or power to do much about it. So any change will come at a very high price. I’ve been around long enough to see those freedoms dwindle year by year, slowly so as not to be noticed. Been around long enough to see many of our young, from mostly lower income families, die in wars that benefitted no one but the large corporations. We need a strong corporate America to remain a prosperous nation, but we need a government that is by and for the people, in order to be a free and prosperous society. It’s good to keep things light and humorous, it relieves stress and anxiety. But freedom and rights should be taken seriously. “Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security” ~ Benjamin Franklin. And will end up losing both.
April 25, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Six different flags flew over Texas, the land of the friends, in less than a hundred years; it had the most complex and turbulent human history than any states in America; from the Rio Grande to the Sabine river in the East and to the Red river in the North, Texas is above all a remarkable land of plains, piney hills and coastal valleys; these are the primary facts and even if they look basically stable, even those can change as well with time; every time anyone express an opinion about history it passes through his own set of values and beliefs, Tony gave a perfect example of this earlier.
Words, ideals and beliefs remain always a mere substitute for reality, in fact, truth is invariably suffering through the thinking process and any historian is sort of a liar for that reason, we first have to see that; of course we need bearings from the past, but, with lucidity and without any pretensions, otherwise it is a vicious cycle of words and tainted opinions that muddle up the debate rather than bringing a support for less confusion.
Another fact is that we do not learn from the past, otherwise there would not be any wars anymore because we know that wars create suffering and despair; who can sincerely believe that war is a way to reach peace? Patriotism and Nationalism have been over exploited for that matter and by whom? i will let your lucidity decide for that, no irony here.
At the end, you can have goals and ideals…but before entering any of these tricky fields, one should ask himself the simple question: Is my personal intervention prone to create more good than bad, or am i here to make a stand and possibly generate more conflicts and suffering..the mind without heart is never a good advisor on those issues.
April 29, 2010 at 1:04 am
hey guys if you dont get it after what tony barnett had to say then your skulls thicker than shit. im from alaska and EVERYBODY flies the confederate flag and the american flag and the gadsten flag. is it because its racist? NO its because of the symbolism of these flags. i love black people, i go to school with one and hes cool as shit and he also flies the confederate flag. your mind should be where your heart is that way you know what feels right and to the south sucsession was right and constitutional… so if you think there traitors then your no more free than a monkey in a zoo. right now alaska is thinking of suscession and i believe gorgia is too. guess what, in our free NATION ill fly my many confederate flags. what the north did to the south is unforgivable.
May 1, 2010 at 9:32 am
Jacob must be the authority. He writes that he goes to school with ONE black guy. I also find that the use of profanity in an article tends to lesson the credibility of the writer.
May 3, 2010 at 10:22 am
Chill out people.
Its history
Its over.
Slavery is illegal
and thats that.
So stop fighting…
Im not ganna try and change how people think because
everyone thinks what they want
but i am going to say that all this online fighting
is a waste of time…
Peace ❤
May 6, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Not to know what happened before you were born is always to remain a child. For what is a man’s life if it is not linked with the life of future generations by memories of the past.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
May 4, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Thee rebel flag does not always stand for hatered against colored people or any other race. yes some people see it as that but its not wha you think. the ebel flag also stands for the south and the southern pride the southern people have. its not alawyas big deal. i myself have a rebel flag, a rebel flag blanket, two rebel flag belt buckles, a deck of rebel flag cards and other rebel flag things. yeah i may not fly my flag like others but i still have one. does that mean im racist against black people hell no as a matter of fact my best friend in the world is black abd she knows that my views of the rebel flag is totally different from the views of others. im from the south and thats what th rebel flag stands for for me. its nothin but southern pride with me.
May 4, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Colored people…i thought that old expression was long gone from US mainstream vocabulary…was it not what we saw in forbidden areas to black people in the south of the infamous 60’s?
Tanya..how old are you mam
May 14, 2010 at 9:45 pm
You can call it Southern Pride, Heritage, History, or whatever word you want to call it. It doesn’t change the perception of it. I live in South Carolina, where I was born and raised. I have seen with my own eyes the attitude toward non-whites in the South. Simple as: if you’re not white in The South, you’re not equal. This is THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA. Not the long dead CSA. Slavery was abolished well over a century ago. Segregation has been gone nearly half a century. It’s time that the attitudes of the people connected to those deplorable times in AMERICAN history go along with them. The Confederate battle flag may be called “heritage” by many, but to the MAJORITY, it is a symbol of hatred and bigotry. Much like the German Swastika, it is deplorable, and a symbol of a people who went to war and killed MILLIONS of AMERICANS. If someone flew the flag of the Taliban post 9/11, they’d be accused of treason. If someone flew the Nazi flag in Israel, they’d be shot. This is AMERICA, and the Confederate battle flag represents a long dead nations that went to war with America, and lost. The flag IS treason, by it’s very definition. If you’re so proud to be an AMERICAN, fly the AMERICAN flag. And if ya don’t like it, you can go to Afghanistan with the rest of the people who like to kill AMERICANS.
May 15, 2010 at 12:30 am
Sounds like the “attitude” is yours.
May 15, 2010 at 2:58 am
You started your argument rather soundly Cappii,but in the body and at the end you simply went over the top sending or “banning” your fellows american out of their own country..deplorable comments;by the way, no wars ever ended up killing millions of americans..where did you get this inflammed idea?
May 24, 2010 at 9:05 am
Why fly a flag that old that is no longer in existance…you never see the northerners fly their old flag…do you???? and still this flag has nothing to do with the current flag with its current stars and strips. It is viewed as a treason flag..because you should be waving the current one…the South has never moved on from the fact that the north beat the south and that we are now part of the UNITED states of America…not the confederacy…that is like me waving a flag from a country that disappeared at the bottom of the ocean and no one remembers it at all!…Pointless! The flag has been used as a racial flag only because it was during times of slavery and chaos..when is the south going to stop waving a symbol from the past…it has always been used to create more chaos…or else why wave it?????
May 24, 2010 at 3:21 pm
okay so im 16 me my boyfriend and many of my friends where the rebel flag. and we sure where it Proud as the flag we fly off our trucks to the flags we wear on out clothes to the flags tattooed to our young bodies. some ppl may wonder what the TRUE meaning is but y?? every1 has there own true meaning that think they are right. most likely they wont change there minds no matter how many paragraphs or books you right on whats true according to historical facts. well i think it means to love the south to have pure heritage NOTT hate. to not wanna listen to rules.and to me its just a damn sexy flag ill say!… and hey you can be white black Whatever color you are you can be racist so why just put it on the flag? just cause you fly the rebel(confederate flag) or love the south DOES NOT mean you are instantly racist…and you know what if you think that and don’t wanna change your mind fine?! this is American you and I and everyone else is free to think what they want and be proud of what they wanna be proud of so do just that!!! thanx for reading<3
May 24, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Ok “Lil Gurl Witha Rebel Heart” you made your point,i understand and respect it;if you wrote your opinion here on this blog it means to some extent that you care for what the others have to say about it as well;opinions,that is only what it is,and i do not believe anybody here on this blog will ever tell you what to think..
We learn more in the process of wording an opinion than reading those of the others most of the time..real understanding should come along the way,like you said,if one is not completely closed to the others.
I encourage you to carry on wording your opinions..
June 12, 2010 at 11:21 am
You are one dumb prick. You have no clue what the south sarcificed in any way shape or form to stand up what you truely believe in against your mother country! It’s not about slavery but how you yourself wanted to live, the TRUE america. That’s why the flag is flown because true believers know that’s what it stands for.
June 18, 2010 at 12:38 am
wow…all of you are retarded as fuck…
June 18, 2010 at 10:27 am
may i ask why you say this ..ryan?
June 18, 2010 at 10:27 pm
Thanks for your intelligent input Ryan. How’s that potty training working out?
June 18, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Once again my opinion still stands.With all the threads I’ve read. No one has made enough of a valid point to get me to change.
The battle flag and flag of the south is history not heritage and therefore belongs in a museum.
June 18, 2010 at 10:43 pm
And mine…heritage. To sum it up, it’s different things to different people and it’s up to them to decide if it’s going up a pole in their front yard, on the wall in their den or if it’s not. When the freedom to do so is restricted because someone doesn’t agree, what’s next to go? Prayer in school? Privacy on the internet or your cell phone? The right to bear arms?
June 19, 2010 at 12:57 am
The books of laws thickening, big cities ever budding, the global village shrinking with new means of communication…all this put pressure on individual freedom for the benefit of a common murky freedom; unless you live in a remote rural environment with only the very basic means of communications, you feel more and more oppressed by the ever growing proximity of your neighbors, both physically and culturally…so that any off-middle of the road behaviour or mentality tend to be seen as weird by this global majority created by these phenomenons mentioned earlier.
Like you said Tony, where will the next pressure be put on? it seems that there is a huge cultural steamroller making his way through “Planet communication” leaving few heads if any peaking out of the main stream way of thinking. Very clever the one who can see the end of this paradigm..people communicating electronically more and more but talking to each other less and less. Most of the vibrations that reach our ears are electronically produced, so are most of the images..
July 11, 2010 at 1:40 am
I am a Blackman that lives in the San fran-sissy-co Bay Area, I have a flag on my car and a belt buckel that I wear, I do this to Piss off the Liberals and whiners. when asked I reply it has come time that we as Americans must stand for something. Our rights are being taken away bit by bit and all we can do smile. If we let them continue to erode freedom as a free and independent people we will all become Slaves to the Government. So I fly the flag because I have some thing to fight for and that is for my Freedom.
Liberals and Yankees will always whine like cry babies. One thing is for sure you have to Fight for your Freedom, and when you get it you have to Fight to keep it. So fly the Flag and let the Chumps whine.
July 11, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Amen Guy!! America needs to turn off their TV sets and look around…before all is lost.
August 2, 2010 at 2:45 am
In a rare moment of blatant honesty Lincoln himself stated the true reason he invaded the South. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, “Why not let the South go in peace?” To which he replied, “I can’t let them go. Who would pay for the government?”
If it was about slavery he would have not waited until after Antietam to deliver the A.P. and he would have freed ALL of the Slaves, not just those in the CSA. Those in the north had to wait until the 13th Ad. was ratified. The A.P. was a publicity stunt to fire up support for a war that many notherners were against from the start. Follow the money.
August 3, 2010 at 9:23 am
I’m sorry. I quit reading. I live in Texas and the confederate flag is not flown at government buildings. The confederate flag is a symbol of hate and everytime I see it flown I feel hated. Do you still want it flown? As a southerner (if it’s okay to count my opinion since I am not a white southerner) this is not a symbol of my southern pride. Now if you said peach pie was a symbol of how friendly we are, ok. Or if you said boots and cowboy hats, ok, but the confederate flag… I guess white hoods are a symbol of southern pride too. Oh and let’s not forget nooses in oak trees. I feel so great thinking of those items. You are a quack. If all you are trying to get with this gibberish that you have written is your name to be known. Congrats. If you are actually trying to be persuasive, try another subject matter. One of you said the north was the oppresser. Wow. So the oppressers were being oppressed. That’s foolishness. Whenever a battle is lost, the loosers are struck with poverty and other such ills. It’s the cost of loosing. All of you should grow up and learn to love. That’s what’s wrong with you confederat flag people. I have to stop since I am getting angry behind this nonsence. WWJD – Peace. This world and your flag are only temporary.
August 9, 2010 at 3:42 pm
I think your all a bunch of whinners! Its a flag either way..you fly it for freedom,hate,pride,racism,love,fear…whatever! The fact still remains..none of you are ever going to agree. White people have reverse racism terribly, black people are discriminated against..there is always going to be a complaint somewhere because in the end someone just doesnt want to shut up & suck it up and just move on…we should learn from mistakes..be greatfull for things we did correctly..TRY OUR BEST TO MAKE OUR FUTURE BETTER FOR OUR KIDS..I really thought I would get the straight thruth here,but I got a lot of b.s.
August 9, 2010 at 4:06 pm
This is a blog Jacky..opinions…you make your own truth reading history or opinions of others; you want absolute?..then go to church or to the bank.
August 28, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Ahhh, the Civil War was about slavery and the flag ties into the Southern states banding together to become one state. Yes, the flag is partially slavery, but also dealt about becoming independent from the U.S.
The Confederate flag should be in a museum and not paraded around or hung in a college dorm room window!?!?! Yeah…i was like dude you know the South lost along time ago, right? lol
August 30, 2010 at 9:55 am
You want to go see it in a museum…go see it in a museum…if I want to walk out my front door, look up and see it on my flagpole…that’s what the hell I’ll do…and it wasn’t only the south that lost…if you’ve lived as long as I have, you’ve seen personal freedoms dwindle under a powerful Federal Government that seized that power in 1865. Do you really think that our powerful Central government is still being run “by and for the people”? As long as they can continue to dupe people into thinking so, the government will continue to be an instrument of big business and special interests.
September 10, 2010 at 10:03 am
i totally agree with this whole blog. im doing a research project on the conferderate flag and she asked me my topic i said southern culture and she replied saying the conferderate flag as nothing to do with southern culture? where does that make any since. someone please email me and explain that to me. laceyperrigan@yahoo.com k.thanks 🙂
November 6, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Lacey it makes no sense whatsoever!
The Confederate flag is as much a part of Southern Culture as anything else claimed uniquely Southern.
September 27, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I have read quite a few comments about all these opinions on what the flag stands for, but there is one major thing; no not thing; fact, that everyone seems to look over.
The Civil War which began in 1861 was fought because eleven Southern slave states, wanted secession from the Union. These eleven states stood for the inhuman selling buying and enslavement of human beings. In America, THIS COUNTRY, that flag has and always will have the stain of the evil that those states stood for upon it. You can make up some fairy tale story of why you wear it, but really, your early ancestors might have worn it therefore, it was passed down from generation to generation and now you wear it. That is fine, and you have every right in America, to love, hate, and dress like you want to along as your not hurting anyone. But don’t dare try and make what people in your family believed in a long time ago all sugar coated. That flag in this country means one very very definite thing. And when you wear it…. Fifth teen year old Cuban, African, Jamaican, AMERICAN, girls like me get really fucking offended. Not that you even care.
September 28, 2010 at 3:27 am
I would care if I felt that you had good reason to be offended. Ignorance is not good reason. Your language is offensive to me. Not that you care. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
November 6, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Oh she probably does…assuming she knows who her mother is that is to say. Good point Tony…plus she spelled fifteen wrong, must be English isn’t her first language.
September 28, 2010 at 7:17 am
In Europe, the stars and bars stand for good country music and rock’n roll. There are a lot of pubs, restaurants and youth hostels that show the battle flag for good entertaining. I cannot understand the controversy about a piece of cotton. Why are some coloured people offended by the sight of a symbol of the secession states ? Do they try to get a better place in their society by not working but just disputing about past symbols ? if you want to get more esteem of your fellow countrymen there is only one trustful recepee : don’t laze about, try hard working !
September 28, 2010 at 7:37 am
I’m from the South. I’ve traced my ancestors back to the old county. I have eight (8) ancestors that fought in the War for Southern Independence. Not one of my ancestors owned a slave. My ancestors fought for FREEDOM from Oppression.
I fly the Confederate Battle Flag in respect for my ancestors. I am a Son of a Confederate Veteran. I will teach my children and grandchildren true Southern History & Southern Heritage. I through with your Yankee lies. Yankees don’t define me or my Southern Heritage.
Consider a few facts about Southern history. 1) Slaves were brought to American in ships flying the American flag. 2) Not one slave ship flew the Confederate flag. 3) Your beloved Yankee President Lincoln wanted to deport ALL blacks back to Africa. And the story goes on and on and on. Learn your history before you berate my Confederate flag.
November 6, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Well spoken brother! Deo Vindice!
October 1, 2010 at 8:58 am
Thanks for the site Tony. As a fellow Texan, I applaud your efforts to engage thoughtful discussions of our history.
Funny to note, no one seems to remember that the Jefferson, a southerner, introduced an act in 1783 to end the imporation of slaves by 1800. The northern delegates voted down the south, and did not end the importation of slaves until 1808, whereby 300,000 additonal slaves where brought to the US by northern ships to northern ports. Like you said, follow the money.
October 11, 2010 at 11:41 am
i love the rebel flag because it stands for freedom. an to me if u think its about racism then u are the one who is racist. we fly this flag proudly it belongs on anyone;s flagpole who believes we have the right to choose an to be free of our goverment who its seems would like to take our rights away an break this country!!
October 21, 2010 at 10:36 pm
well im from a small town in Connecticut..After reading this i plan on buying a flag for my truck. im not racist. i jugde on how you treat me and by no other means i love my country and i want to fight evil she faces…if my country took me wrong id fly this flag as a rebel if our country was under forgin rule id fly this flag as An AMERICAN..id fly the current American after we dove the evil back to their land. UNTIED UNDER FREEDOM AND LIBERTY WE STAY STRONG. DIVIED LIKE AN EMENMY WE CRUMBLE LIKE FOOLS
November 7, 2010 at 2:40 am
Outsourcing and globalism is undermining our nation’s sovereignty Globalism benefits multinational corporations more than anyone else. I agree with other’s statements that outsourcing has been going on for many years
The multinational corporations were born out of the Industrial Revolution that occurred around the 1830’s. These corporations became influential in the industrialized North, and influenced the U.S. Government to exert influence over the Southern agrarian states (hence the War between the states, or the Civil War). After the war, the corporations moved in to the South and set up factories. These factories had very poor working conditions (as they did in the north) until the Labor Movement made some improvements. After being established in the South, the multinational corporations (MNCs) expanded in to the West (hence the Indian wars). After the Indians were defeated and placed on reservations, and the east coast was connected to the west coast by railroads, the MNCs established themselves coast to coast. After this they expanded overseas (hence events like the annexation of Hawaii, the acquisition of the Philippines, Guam, Puerto Rico and Cuba from the Spanish-American War, and other overseas adventures). After W.W.II the U.S. was the most powerful country on earth, and the MNC;s were worldwide, except for communist nations (hence the Cold War). After the Cold War the MNC’s became established in China, Russia, Vietnam, Eastern Europe, and other Communist nations. They also expanded in to the Third World (including India). Today they are outsourcing many American jobs to these countries creating many consumers of their goods overseas at the expense of Americans losing their jobs. More jobs are being lost than generated from outsourcing, and new jobs are many times less-paying jobs than previous jobs.
The massive U.S. government debt is another reason our nation is loosing its sovereignty. The MNC’s are not in debt, the taxpayer-funded U.S. government is in debt. Our taxpayer-funded government bailing out irresponsible MNC’s like AIG and GM recently are examples of MNC influence on our government. MNC’s influence the U.S. government to give billions of dollars of aid to third world countries so the MNC’s can gain access to those countries to set up operations there.
I think the American people are going to stand up and react to our country losing its sovereignty. I think an appropriate rally symbol would be the Confederate Battle Flag. The MNC media portrays this flag as racist and pro-slavery. I think otherwise. To me this flag represents the democratic, Judeo-Christian values that this country was founded on under the Constitution and Articles of Confederation. The flag has the cross of St. Andrew on it with 13 stars on the cross. Those stars represent to me the original 13 colonies of our nation and also Jesus Christ and his 12 disciples (with the 13th star in the middle of the cross representing Jesus surrounded by 12 stars which are the 12 disciples).
I think the Confederate Battle Flag is a good symbol of Americans’ struggle to restore our nation’s sovereignty to the nation represented by our national flag of 50 stars and 13 stripes.
We need to realize that an attack on our nation’s sovereignty is underway (encouraged by MNCs), both through the debt burden put on our nation (and China and India are our government’s largest creditors being major buyers of U.S. Treasury bills) and by undermining American jobs through outsourcing and insourcing (from both immigrants on working visas and from illegal immigrants).
November 7, 2010 at 2:53 am
I think the Confederate Battle flag is a beautiful flag that has been stigmatized by the multinational-corporation-controlled media.
To me the flag represents the democratic and Judeo-Christian values our nation was founded on as expressed in the Constitution and Articles of COnfederation. The flag contains the cross of St Andrew (patron saint of Scotland). The cross has 13 stars on it. To me those 13 stars represent the original 13 colonies of our nation and also represents Jesus Christ and his 12 disciples with the star in the middle of the cross representing Jesus and the surrounding 12 stars representing his disciples.
What a perfect symbol to represent the democratic and Judeo-Christian values our nation was founded on. I am proud to mount the Confederate Battle flag on a wall in my apartment (since I don’t have a house and flagpole or otherwise I’d fly it on the flagpole).
February 8, 2012 at 9:45 am
I could sit and explain the history of burning crosses to you. Does that mean that in todays time in the USA they should be tolerated? Knowing that the klan burned crosses ALONG WITH homes of blacks for no reason at all would you still want to take part in cross burning because someone passed on to you their religiousmeaning of it? And not ALL values our nation was founded on where great ones. Some of “us” wish to see the country go back in time and take some of these wrong values instead of move foward with new ones.
November 10, 2010 at 8:51 pm
Born ans raised in Kansas, stationed twice both in Texas and Georgia when i was in the Army. Now i live in Washington State. Those that do not wanna see the Rebel Flag can come up here! You will rarely see the American flag either! You wanna see first hand an undeniable pride for the USA go to the midwest and south. I hope this road map of the country helps you to navigate. 😉
November 10, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Oh and also Elvis’ Last statement has once again given me hope and pride that i think i was begining to lose, (Thank You!) The Definition of A True Patriot is one that will Defend his Country from his Goverment!
November 25, 2010 at 3:27 pm
the rebel flag isn’t racist there are some racist who fly it but it’s their right as much as anybody else’s also there are just as many racist in the north flying an american flag, and saying just because some people who flew the flag were racist doesnt make it racist that’s like saying if racist wear combat boots the boots are a symbol of racism which isn’t true and i’m black myself my family has always represented the flag because our ancestors fought for it it’s not about blacc or white it’s about pride and heritage im from North Carolina the SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!!!!!!
November 25, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Well stated blacc rebel!
November 30, 2010 at 1:36 pm
agreed!!
shouldnt we be getting upset over the mexican flag flown here ?
My sons ( whos 7 ) says its just the flag on the General Lee hahahah
November 25, 2010 at 11:39 pm
fuck you you are a dumb ass you are not sounthener we dont give a damb what you say. You were doing good when you described what the CSA Flag represented. But I think you went to far when you infered anyone Governmental Builidng flying the flag was an act of treason. Many people today are fed up with the Federal Government, not the United States of America. The Federal Government has become to powerfull and no longer represents the people. When the people fear the government you have tyranny, when the government fears the people you have freedom. Long live the South.
December 5, 2010 at 3:36 pm
It is not just the other 48 states that have a problem understanding the rebel flag. That some Southern people fly the flag for racism and others fly the flag for hatred only adds insult to the injury of all those whose lives were lost on both side of our nation during that time. While I was stationed in Japan the Communist government of Japan would tell us each weekend “Yankee go home” and today all I hear is “you ain’t from around here, are you.” Neither are you. If you are not a native American “you ain’t from around here either.” Through in some cross burning and sheet wearing folks and it is no wonder the world (not just our nation) who sees the South as who some of them truly are.
What I find really funny is that Georgia blames Ohio for their taking and continuing to be second in a 150 year old gun fight. If Georgia used education to their advantage they could prove to the nation and the world that they are not a bunch of uneducated, misguided small groups of people who just want to terrorize others. The world has moved forward while the South wants to take yet another shot at taking over the United States. If you don’t want to be part of it pack and get the fuck out. Veterans wants to fly their flag out of respect for the lost while others want to fly flag to show their sports team, their sexual preference, or nationality. But yet you are offended if a Mexican or fag flag is flown next to you. What is the solution? Take them all down or let them all fly? Either way you won’t be happy that someone has the right or option to their opinion as long as it does not conform to yours. Like Charles said on Nov 25th “fuck you you are a dumb ass you are not sounthener we dont give a damb what you say” only cements the hatred that is causing the world to see what the South is trying to hide.
January 21, 2011 at 3:15 pm
I’m sure you all have good arguments as to what the confederate flag may represent in your own minds, but it’s just that. I’m Native American and Irish. Both of these groups of people were also slaves at one time or another. The people who came to create what you call the United States fly the American flag today, but I’m not going to tell anyone to stop flying it just because of the history behind it. I have a confederate flag, my father gave it to me, our family is from the South. I am not offended by it. Symbols can be powerful, but they only have as much power as one is willing to give it. It’s how people treat people, regardless of what they are wearing, what race they are, religion, or what flags they fly, that count. If a person feels that certain symbols insight hatered and fear we would have to do away with everything because it is in human nature to find something about someone else to hate them for. I say if you like the flag, fly it, if not, don’t. Racist people are going to be racist and it doesn’t matter what flag their flying and those who are offended by everything have a problem. They want an excuse to hate under the pretence of justice or some civil rights issue. Civil rights and justice are important, but there are better ways to go about gaining these things than attacking the things that seem important to those who you might not understand. This is why the individual being important is a concept we should hold on to because it allows us to understand that not all people that belong to any specific group are all bad or all good. I met a lot of racist people who don’t fly the confederate flag, do you think because you get rid of one symbol there won’t be another one the next day. Bottom line, people are the problem not the symptoms.
January 23, 2011 at 12:42 pm
SO UN EDUCATED VERY SAD
January 23, 2011 at 12:50 pm
I MUST BE A KKK BECAUSE I HAVE A CROSS ..WTF..
January 27, 2011 at 12:39 pm
To even make such a statement that the flag represents racism automatically qualifies you as ignorant. not dum just uneducated about the confederate flag.
Its adopted from the ST Andrews cross which represents christantity so that our soldiers could identify it during battle. the stars are the states that succeeded. so from a southerners perspective its showing respect for our heritage and men who fought and died under that flag!
February 8, 2012 at 9:12 am
I don’t need to know the history of the swastika to know what it represents to a whole body of people AND understand WHY they feel as they do. So would I be ignorant to be anti swastika flag or is the one that flys it with no reguard to others be “automatically qualified as ignornt” ????
February 3, 2011 at 9:33 pm
If someone is going to fly the Confederate flag they need to get the History of it
February 3, 2011 at 9:42 pm
HistoryDuring the Civil War, many Southern states left the Union. These Confederate or “Rebel” states wanted their own flag to fly. The first Rebel flag that flew over the Confederacy, was the Bonnie Blue. The Bonnie Blue was never adopted by the confederacy, but it was loved by the people. Officially, the first Rebel flag was the Stars and Bars. The Stars and Bars flew from March 1861 to May of 1863. Unfortunately this Rebel flag looked too much like the Union’s Stars and Stripes. The Confederate states decided to look further for a more unique design.
The best-known Rebel flag was the Confederate Battle Flag, also known as the “Southern Cross”. The Battle flag was carried by Confederate troops during battle. So, on May 1st,1863, the second Confederate flag design was adopted, placing the Battle Flag as the canton on a white field. It was named the Stainless Banner. This Rebel flag was mistaken for a truce flag in calm weather, since it would just hang with mostly white showing. This led the Confederacy to create the third Official Rebel flag. On March 4th,1865, a new pattern was adapted. It was the same as the previous design, but with a wide, red stripe on the fly end. The third flag did not last long, since the war came to an end. It was called the Last Confederate flag.
The Confederate Battle flag is the most recognized Rebel flag. Many people know it from the Dukes of Hazzard TV show. The Rebel flag was painted on the top of the Duke Boys’ car, the General Lee. The Confederate flag has also appeared on several southern state flags at one time or another. The only state to keep the Rebel flag as part of their state flag presently, is Mississippi.
February 9, 2011 at 2:36 pm
How many of you people can actually say you have been to any place where there is no racism? You cant because it is everywhere. There is not just one type of person lets say “whites” that are racist I have ran into different races that are more racist then “whites”. Dont place anyone into a sterotype unless you have hard core evidence because more then likely you wont know their real reason for flying this flag or any other flag. Just because a symbol is taking away isnt going to take the hatred and racism out of people. How many of you can actually say you know the true meaning behind the flag other then what you looked up online maybe even in books? Many people can tell you what they think it means but the flag was changed to what it is because they needed a different design because it so closely resembled the enemies flag. So for those of you that think the “Rebel” or “Confederate” flag is racist go get the history on the flag you fly and see what its true meaning is before you start opening your mouth to disrespect something you have no idea about.
February 9, 2011 at 8:29 pm
It’s not our flag they’re trying to take from us. It’s what that flag represents to us, our heritage and ideals, our code and standards – the things we live by and teach our children.
February 10, 2011 at 10:23 am
I respect everyone’s value of the Confederate flag. Being from a foreign soil with little depth about the American history, I became optimistic about the History. Base on the flag my first impression I have heard most of the time or almost all of the time it signifies racism. However, further view from different views on the other side signifies victory, “Southern pride”.
After considering all thoughts, what bothers me about this land is the love of History. I wish they could be much pride of science to glorify like Albert Einstein. Nevertheless, to my conclusion, My question would be, “What is the pride of killing another person?” What significance does it made about pride. This things kind of bother my mind if living in America is full of Hatred rather than love or peace. If hatred is part of one’s pride, then what significance are we trying to implement? Because so much event, not even positive, centered around that time with the “Confederation Flag” being flown, it would be best to avoid showing the flag. Correct me if I’m wrong, I know not everyone believes in the Lord, but there is nothing bad that signifies believing in Him.
February 12, 2011 at 1:28 pm
Sirs,I live and grew up in ohio with my maternal great grandfather serving 2 tours of duty with the 1st Oh vol calvary co.h,1st ohio light artillrery co, f.My paternal great,great grandfather served with the 64th Va, mounted infantry.So both sides were represented but what they taught me in school was a joke.Just from my limited studies the conclusion is clear,the war was fought over $,as was every war every fought.Expansion of the slave states would mean the south could move with their own motives.The north fearing the loss of revenues stirred up the abolisht cause,which was a joke.They mask them selves under the cloak of religion,when in fact they were and are criminals.Trampled the fugitive slave law which was the law of the land at that time.Hypocrisy runs ramped.Im glad im a confederate.
February 13, 2011 at 2:51 am
If you like the flag so much do you belive the constitution that was written on behalf of the flag? Do you support the States declaration to suceed from the union ? Ive read all of them and they sure do have a bunch of stuff about slavery in those documents. Both Flags are greedy and crooked. If i was so caught up in waving that flag i would be promoting the ideas to expose the corrupt and the unjust but oh well thats what those flags mean any way.
February 13, 2011 at 9:28 pm
read texas declaration to suceed from the union..
February 13, 2011 at 9:35 pm
http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html
February 14, 2011 at 1:02 am
http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/csaconst.htm article 4 #3
February 22, 2011 at 8:23 pm
um no ur totally wrong. first of all the rebel flag originally and still does represent southern pride, which has nothing to do with treason with the U.S. and has nothing to do with racism. second the stupid KKK and confederate soilders used the flag as theirs and this make the rebel flag look bad even though its not. third the rebel flag was around way before the kkk and the confederate war and has nothing to do with them. it represents the Souths Pride in their land, farms, ranches, homes they put blood sweat and tears into. unlike the blueblooded stuck up yankees like U that have every thing handed to u on a plate! dont diss on somthing u know nothing about!
April 9, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Hey, I’m a Pennsylvanian. Back off. Yeah, I’m a Yankee and a blueblood, but that doesn’t mean I’m stuck up or had anything handed to me on a plate. I respect everyone’s own opinions and choices, and I do know a lot about ‘Southern Pride,’ as well as what it’s like to be a ‘northerner.’ My dad’s dad grew up dirt poor here in the Keystone state, and worked his way up through life, becoming a proud and honorable man. NOTHING was handed to him, and if it was, he’d politely hand it right back, refusing it until he’d rightfully dererved it. My mom’s grandfather, a brave and hardy Georgian, supported a huge family under impossible circumstances. He was a bus driver for 38 years who had to make the tough decision to move his family up north, and eventally received a two million mile saftey award. He adopted the ways of PA and called himself a Pennsylvanian, taking pride he was a Yankee, as well as a ‘Rebel.’ Nothing was handed to him either. My mom’s dad and his family have been Northern famers for countless generations, and were actally very humble people who also put pride in their land, farms, ranches, and homes that they surely put their blood, sweat, and tears into. Don’t insult us. Just don’t, because there’s nothing to insult except your own biases. And, by the way, the first KKK started in the 1860s. The first Confederate flags appeared in the 1860s, too, so there really wasn’t any time gap between the two. Plus, everyone is a racist at some point or another, whether it was conciously or not. The KKK also used/uses the Union flag and the current flag of the USA. So, their use of flags really isn’t an insult to just southerners. Don’t rag on Confederate soldiers, either, as they flew the flag for many good and bad reasons, and should be left out of this. YOU are the one who is dissing on something YOU CLEARLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! READ A BOOK, LEARN SOMETHING, and STOP BEING SO HYPOCRITICAL!
February 24, 2011 at 9:44 pm
Wow you guys have a lot of opinions. I see plenty of rebel flags in florida.I have spoken to many of the people that fly them. I ask do you dislike blacks. There is alway and I mean always a delayed answer. This speaks volumes to me. I dislike no one and never hesitate to say so. I fly my 13 star AMERICAN FLAG EVERYDAY PROUDLY. Hail to the Victor !! By the way no one every admits to being a racist, only to another racist.
March 2, 2011 at 9:56 pm
The True Meaning of the Confederate flag is very simple “Racism” . This represent the white heritage so call “Heritage not Hate”. Well I’m sorry to tell you your heritage is hate. The Confederate flag represents the Confederate Army who fought a bloody battle to keep slavery in place , Once defeated they gave birth to the KU KLUX KLAN one of the biggest and bloodiest terrist groups in the World. The KU KLUX KLAN was responsible for over 4,000 lynching in America not to mention the rapes and church bombings. These people simply could not leave blacks alone after slavery, It was to easy , But because of the hate that was their in the South if you were black you had to be a slave no matter what , Or DIE . This flag is about “Terror” in America and nothing else . You say “Heritage” your heritage is simple “Whites Only” according to water- fountains ,Hotels , court -bibles ,restaurants,restrooms,schools ,parks,stores , and many more . Your heritage benefits nobody but “Whites Only” blacks had to get back and was not even consider human. I guess Confederates will never understand the evil in they own heritage symbolized by the Confederate flag. I look at all those lynching photos of young black men hanging surrounded by all white people smiling standing near the confederate flag. You know lynching was a recreational activity and afterward they would dismember the body parts and sell them , Dry bone 25 cents , dry piece of liver 10 cents , finger or toe $1.00 , and postcards 10 cents . The fact is , There is no way anyone can say that the Confederate flag represent anything good . Murder , Injustice , Jim Crow , Humiliation , Segregation , Discremination and Oppression ! Anyone who feels that the Confederate flag stands for Justice and equality must be a white southerner who lives in a rural area. Thats not to be mean but to try and understand how can people be proud of this flag when they know what it represents they know that blacks were nearly destroyed in the South and ‘THEY JUST DON’T CARE”! TX,LA,MS,AL,AR,GA,TN,KY,SC,FL……..
March 3, 2011 at 10:12 am
you should no tfly the flag
March 4, 2011 at 7:41 pm
When I see The Stars and Bars I get a warm feeling because I am in company of some good ole boys and girls that share the southern hospitality and southern pride we are known for all over the South. You have to understand both flags have stars and bars and red and white stripes and are a symbol for what men on both sides of the Civil War fought for a cause they believed in and were willing to die for. Now you northerners tell me why I have to look at YOUR flag everywhere. I look at a penny I see Lincoln, a quarter I see Washington, I see northerners on paper money, coins, do you see a southerner on them. If you really get down to it The South DID win because we buried all the Yankees before the last Southners were buried from the confederate submarine Hunley when they found it. Britian wanted to pay us more than the North for our cotton.
THE NORTH LOST AND STILL CANNOT GET OVER IT!
SO RAISE THE BONNEY BLUE–STARS AND BARS — AND GOD BLESS DIXIE !
March 11, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Rick. Really? Really? Bitter much? The flag of the United States is our national banner. It represents all of us, even those, like you, who wish it didn’t. If by your definition the war was decided by the last man buried, then I suppose the South did win as the last combatant to die served in the Confederate army. It wasn’t the boys aboard the Hunley, though. They were buried when the Hunley sank, Rick. They were reburied upon the Hunley’s recovery. Just sayin’.
March 6, 2011 at 3:54 pm
What do you think of when you see the flag above? Racism? Slavery? Hatred? White supremacy?
Something worse?
Now, what do you really see on the flag? The color Red? White? Blue? Thirteen stars?
Is that all? See anything else?
Look closer and take some time to think about what you’re actually seeing… examine every detail of the flag.
The design of this flag actually tells the story about what the flag stood for, and … it says NOTHING about racism, slavery, hatred or white supremacy!
You could remove all the COLOR from this flag, leaving just the outline of the details, and the meaning could still be understood… … if the mind of those who were looking upon it wasn’t already clouded with the LIES, STUPIDITY and TOTAL IGNORANCE of those who taught them what they have chosen to think the flag stands for… which is generally the negative attributes listed above.
First of all, the flag is NOT the “Confederate Flag.” It is the “Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.” This design, however, is the one most synonymous with the term, and the one used in various forms on other Confederate Flags. It is also the one most hated by those who have no clue what it stands for or the story its design tells.
So, please look again at the flag and answer this question : Do you see a big letter “X” on it anywhere? How about if I lay that “X” down on its : See it now? The X is the big, blue bands outlined with white trim that the thirteen stars are placed on.
And do you know what these thirteen stars represent? They represent the thirteen original colonies that formed the first united states of this country. Knowing this is the key to understanding the design of this flag and its TRUE meaning.
The thirteen stars on this flag appear to lie on the blue X… but in reality, the X lies on the stars.
Do you remember from your grade-school years how the teachers would ask you to circle the right answers or picture on a page, or to put an X on the wrong answer or picture? That is the same, basic concept here… the stars on this flag are laid out in the pattern of an X, and the blue bands on this flag were put on the thirteen stars (which represent the 13 original, “united” states) to show that the southern states no longer wanted to be “united” with the northern states. The southern states withdrew from that union in a movement called “secession,” which led to the Civil War.
That’s it. Its just that simple. If this flag represented slavery, hatred, white supremacy, or something worse, it would contain pictures of the faces of those whom it stood against, and there would be a big X on their faces.
But that is NOT what is on this flag.
March 11, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Janet. The 13 stars on the Confederate battle flag and the second and third Confederate national flags do not represent the origninal 13 colonies that made up the United States. They represented the 11 states that seceded from the Union along with stars for the secessionist governments of Missouri and Kentucky.
April 9, 2011 at 7:18 pm
Exactly. Thanks, Jim. And, Janet, it’s called Google. Try it some time. It helps to show you that you’re wrong, and a little bit more than biased. Which just shows how hipocritical you are. Go to a museum and read a good nonfiction book for once; you just may learn something for once.
March 11, 2011 at 4:41 pm
I understand the desire to honor ancestors who fought and died for an ideal. It is a well known fact that the vast majority of Confederate soldiers did not own slaves and were fighting for reasons other than defending the peculiar institution. The fact remains, however, that the various Confederate national flags along with the well known battle flag, represented a government that advocated the enslavement of human beings as a matter of policy. The documents of secession from virtually every one of the eleven states that joined the Confederacy spoke of “defending their property”. Slavery was the bedrock upon which all other causes of the Civil War are built upon. Slavery permeated all aspects of Southern society during the Antebellum Period whether a man was a slave holder or not. Slavery was the economic engine that drove the Southern economy. To state that the war had nothing to do with slavery is not only wrong, it is childish.
March 14, 2011 at 4:45 pm
One nation one flag. The south as a whole does not “need” a flag. Retire it to a museum, like they say, as far as government entities are concerned. It is treason. If I were the govenor of Louisiana and have a history in an African tribe how many people would be pissed about that flying at a government building. Dont hold so tightly to such a shameful time in our country’s history. We should only learn from the past.
March 16, 2011 at 10:49 am
how many people are pissed that it’s not ok to hang a confederate flag but ok to have a black pride or brown pride sticker on their car? Why cant a Irish man or a typical white man have white pride on his bumper sticker?
March 16, 2011 at 1:14 pm
that’s a matter of personal freedom of speech and expression. Who’s denied you of that? check, i bet there are white pride or irish pride parades. The issue at hand is the place of such things on government property. what you do on a bumper sticker or at home is your business. thats the amazing part about being an American!
March 15, 2011 at 1:00 pm
@Jim, Jonathan, and others who decry the confederate flag.
I wonder who is really bitter. It seems many are bitter because, like the Radical Republicans, no matter how hard you try, ya just can’t kill the southern ideals. Over time it has been shot at, blown up, politically assasinated, and everytime, when the smoke clears, it is still there, stronger and more determined. We can argue the details of the rift that exists between the north and south. History has written the facts plainly, at least until the neo-historians since the 1920s bastardized and twisted the facts to suite their own beliefs.
But it is more basic. The New Englanders and the Southerner have been of different bread from the start. I contend that this riff was why the Constitution was so closely contested. That agreement was no more than a truce. The war of Northern Aggression was a test of that compromise because the south was growing beyond the ability for the north to politically control the south. So the north turned to military force. It seems every 100 years or so the two factions test that relationship. Look at the Tea Party movement now. It’s 40 years late. It probably won’t turn violent (damn sure won’t be the Tea Party folks to start it), but it holds the values and individual responsibility of the south. Seems the federalist (both Republican and Democrat alike) are having a hard time dealing with the freedom loving ‘flyover folks’ Will it lead to military force once again?
March 16, 2011 at 3:51 pm
Opps. Breed, not bread. DOH!
July 21, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I’m curious, in your opinion how are New Englanders and Southerns different? Personally I am of Swamp Yankee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swamp_Yankee and Southern stock. My great grandfather was from Virginia and his wife from Maine.
July 21, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Phyllis,
Not a “different breed” in biology, but in political philosophy. From my reading of US history, the New England states believed in a more centralized and powerful government and the southern states distrusted a centralized government, thus the Federalist and anti-federalist debates/contention around the time of the Constitution. I don’t think that disagreement has ever been settled.
March 16, 2011 at 10:42 am
i have always been taught the confederate flag was by those who were for slavery and saw a book in a book store (forgot the title) about the south and its heritage. I read of how the flag stood for a side of the country that rebelled against the union and used the flag to represent morels and heritage of being the free states, each having their own rights and governing. I see now that this is a truth of the flag after reading up on the south and the flags history. Living in Oklahoma all my life and my family homesteading a small town in eastern ok i have now become a proud southerner myself, if you want to call Oklahoma south, I see that we have alot to fight for in upholding our heritage and pride we treat everyone with respect till they spit on the path we walk on because they disgrace us due to a flag we hang to show our pride! And for those leaving these comments about southerners, i bet you didn’t even stand up for our children to be allowed to say GOD. Not just a word a man who gave you all you know and have, you show no respect for.
March 31, 2011 at 6:52 pm
only in $$ Amerikkka $$
April 3, 2011 at 10:26 pm
I fly the Confederate flag on my front lawn and I am about as far South as you can get.The South Island of New Zealand.One day, God willing I would love to visit the Southern States and walk the battle feilds where fine Rebel soldiers gave their all for their cause!
April 9, 2011 at 7:10 pm
I do agree that it IS technically treason to fly the Confederate flag over government buildings and on public property. But, I also agree that it ISN’T wrong to fly the flag PRIVATELY–that whole ‘frredom of speech and expression’ thing. This issue really isn’t all that big. People, it is a FLAG. No need to get so fired up about it. You’ve all got some really great (and a few terrible) views on whether or not the old bars and stars should be flown, so how ’bout focussing all that brainpower on something that could make an impact on the world, like the use of alternative fuels? Yes, this is a matter of ‘Southern pride and heritage’ vs. ‘racism’ and such, but really, I think we’ve all said enough. Keep your opinions and think on them, then act accordingly, like fly the thing if you want, or simply don’t and ignore the fact others do? I know I’ll let my brother wear his CSA flag-adorned shirt whenever he pleases, and I’ll just smile and watch my star spangled banner flutter in the breeze on my front porch.
April 11, 2011 at 8:39 am
I’ll always fly my rebel flag on my truck, in my front yard, and have one in my garage. President Obama, on the other hand, with his many ignorant decisions shouldn’t have any say on anything. He’s saying its treason when he really just doesn’t want to see it because he thinks it’s racist. It’s pride, get over it. Oh, and I would love to see the southern states rise again and get out of this shitty government that is moving to socialism.
April 19, 2011 at 10:50 pm
Hell yeah!
April 25, 2011 at 4:02 am
it should be a reminder to the USA if they fuck the people the people will rise and guess what that time is coming if people wake up everyone go to youtube and look up the alex jones channel and listen to the truth
THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN
April 25, 2011 at 4:06 am
also this USA government is hurting its own peole by puting things such as floride in drinking water it gives u bone cancer and hurts young babys thats why babys now a days are being born with loads of problems but people still love there usa flag and ther government fuck it all
May 12, 2011 at 1:04 am
This was pretty was a pretty interesting read… final summation, that flag is BADASS!
May 22, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Such ignorance… the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of defiance to tyranny. The whole world knows this. The only supposed “controversy” is in the mind of the two most ignorant facets of American society – yankees and blacks. I wish you would argue it out between the two of you and stop boring the rest of us. No one cares what you think anyway.
May 29, 2011 at 8:28 pm
If the South were racist, why did Tens of Thousands of Free Blacks, 3,000+ Cherokee Indians, and 5,000+ Mexicans fight in support of Southern Independence.
Furthermore, CSA cemeteries do not distinguish between Black, White or Brown! They are all brothers. They are CSA!
June 4, 2011 at 9:10 am
MY FAMILY HAS BEEN IN SOUTH CAROLINA OVER 200 YEARS & IN MILITARY OR LAW ENFORCEMENT. I HAVE REBEL TATTOO’S & PROUD TO BE A SOUTHERNER. I WAS IN MILITARY 10 YEARS & 3 HONORABLE DISCHARGES SO NO ONE CAN TAKE MY SOUTHERN FLAG FROM ME. FAR AS SOUTHERN FLAG REPRESENTING TREASON THE SOUTH STOOD UP FOR THERE RIGHTS JUST LIKE OUR ANCESTORS DID DURING REVOLUTIONARY WAR. THE NORTH & ABE LINCOLN WANTED TO DESTROY THE SOUTH. WHY WOULD A PRESIDENT GIVE ORDERS FOR SOUTHERN WOMEN TO BE RAPED & KILLED AS SHERMAN DONE ?? WHY IS OUR CIVIL WAR ALWAYS TOLD FROM NORTHERN POINT OF VIEW & NOT THE TRUE HISTORY ?? ABE LINCOLN WANTED TO GET RID OF THE SOUTH & ALL BLACKS SO THE NORTH COULD RUN THE COUNTRY. HE WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN HITLER JUST PEOPLE TO STUPID TO SEE IT. YOU DON’T LIKE REBEL FLAG WELL DON’T LOOK AT IT.. NO ONE IS FORCING IT DOWN ANYONES THROAT OUR PRESIDENT IS NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN & SO WHO CARES WHAT HE SAYS.
August 30, 2011 at 8:34 pm
I agree with you.. But I never heard that piece of information before. Lincoln really ordered Sherman to rape and kill southern women??
February 8, 2012 at 8:43 am
How many black women where raped is the real question? African slaves come off the boat blacker than black then a couple years later you got slaves dark skinned light skinned and all in between. Southern whites raped slave women children and men (yes some of your ancestors where racist AND gay) so over those 200 years how many of your family members can be compared to Hitler??? Are you too dumb to see that or just didn’t want to mention it?
April 27, 2012 at 9:17 am
If you actually studied the history of the American Civil War you would find something odd. In any war the conquering army committed a certain level of rape on the women of the conquered people. The Union soldiers rarely raped Southern white women when they won their war. They did, however, rape a heck of a lot of Southern black women. I’ve pondered on why this is. I don’t have an answer yet for this. But Yankees apparently loved raping southern slaves.
It sucks that reality doesn’t fit inside of your tidy little mental boxes like popular culture would like you to believe, doesn’t it?
It’s such a chore to exert the energy on realizing the implications of reality instead of the fiction that is spoon fed to you through the mass media.
June 4, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Good one Perry,
The softheaded do-gooders can’t come to terms that the South had years of political and economic struggle followed by fours years of bloodshed.The flag is a symbol of this struggle and is a part o American history.Embrace this fact and acknowledge the fact that feelings still run high and respect them. Ray your Kiwi Supporter.
June 12, 2011 at 1:06 am
At the risk of no one reading my reply, I have to reply anyway. Why is it treason to fly a flag of a once sovereign nation as the Confederacy? We did not not invade the North! The North invaded the South! The Union was actually behaving more like the Taliban in trying to force the South to comply with their continued leadership. We had a right to secede from England which we did! The South had the right to secede as well! The KKK also carries the flag of the United States. Is it a racist symbol because they carry it? Should we forsake the cross of Jesus Christ because they burn it? Heaven forbid! You can’t fix stupid! I am a Northerner from Southern Iowa. We are feeling Southern persecution even where we are at! The DesMoines, Iowa Register said, “They should pay Missouri to take the southern tier of Iowa counties back, and thereby increase the IQ level of both states in the process!” Just because I have a Southern drawl does not make me stupid. I have two bachelor’s degrees and a master’s degree in education. People have misrepresented the South long enough! The Southern Poverty Law Center is actually a hate group that perpetuates the lies of the first revisionists, the “winner’s” of the war of Northern Aggression! Can’t we have anything of decency anymore? Remove the ten commandments from courtrooms, quit saying the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, etc.? I am proud of our founding fathers, and we should all be proud of the integrated Army of the Confederacy! We didn’t have blacks and whites fighting side by side again until after World War II. Reconstruction is over! It’s time we all get along together in peace again like we all did before the war that divided us so much! Let’s fight against those who want to eliminate our national sovereignty, the way they eliminated the state sovereignty in those early years! They revised the histories so we cannot learn from our mistakes! The forces of slavery continue through cheap labor, and our national debt to other nations! Let us go on to conquer the forces of greed which are attempting to make the free people into slaves even today! This is the real reason they hate the Confederate flag! They don’t want free people to maintain our freedom!
Ricky D. Leonard
113 Cavalry
United States Army+
June 23, 2011 at 8:52 pm
Right on Ricky…it was never about black vs. white…it was and still is about division of the masses…for the benefit of the rich!
June 17, 2011 at 10:54 am
I have been trying to find any legitimate reference to the confederate flag being a racist symbol or supporting slavery and have failed miserably. The only reason I can see someone thinking that is because it has supposedly been flown by a certain racist organization. If this is the case and the flag needs to be removed from state buildings then shouldn’t the Alabama state flag be removed along with it? I have seen that patch on quite a few white sheets. While were ripping down our nations history why not take down the American flag too. Slavery was in those states as well and I have met racists from all over this country. Racism is passed down to us from our fathers and grandfathers. Break the trend and LET IT GO!!! It’s time to put on your big girl panties and deal with things like an adult. Not put it away never to be seen or heard about again. Not everyone is out to get you. Some people fly the flag simply because it is the south and that’s what it represents to them. As far as a state flying the Confederate flag I say fly it high and proud. It is our history. Our history made us into the greatest nation on earth. If anything I say treason lies with the person who tries to deny who we are, where we’ve been and what we have done. This assures our children know the mistakes that have already been made. Didn’t anyone learn anything from social studies in school? As for this piece of history sitting in a museum I say hell no and shame on you.
July 8, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Last year I remember an article in the army times stating the highest number of Combat Arms (the guys actually doing the bulk of the fighting in our current campaigns) casualties were from Southern states. Back when I was in the Infantry, most of the northern and west coast guys (NOT ALL) admitted they joined the army for “college” or to “get away”. Southerners mostly said “Because there was a fight to be fought.” I am one of them. Born in Tennessee, and raised on the lakes of the Western KY/TN border (aka Kentuckasee, you try telling a west Kentuckian he is not from the south..)
Dropped a theatre scholarship at a college in Virginia to fight in that war, no regrets. I was the bodyguard/rto to an african american captain from NYC, (who remains my best friend to this day) who got a kick outta me wearing a subdued “stars and bars” on my radio pouch, and hootin’ and hollerin’ with the other southern boys when there was fighting to be done.
I grew up around racism. My grandfather dropped the N-bomb every 10 words. I think he was a klansman too. But I know for a fact that he grew up in different times. As time progresses, so should the meaning of our Stars and Bars. I see it not as the cloth embodiment of racism, but that of good hearty fighting stock, used to getting the short end of the stick and making due, who were willing to leave our homes and fight for a cause we believed in, even though a lot of people have a problem with it. Oh, and for the record, I dropped the N-bomb every 5 words in Iraq, because amongst the boys, there is no race. I once said to an oversensitive white Californian who overheard me say it to a friend “We aint black, white, hispanic, asian or middle eastern. We are all grunts.. surrounded, outgunned and about to lay some serious ass kickin on these boys”, which prompted a hearty Rebel Yell from my comrades of all color and creed.
July 10, 2011 at 9:25 pm
I can tell you that I will fly the stars and bars countless what Obama says its freedom of speech for everyone in the US including the government. So let government buildings fly the stars and bars. Doesn’t mean it is rated over the stars and stripes. And hell yea I would defend my family if the state next to me started a war on mine.
July 22, 2011 at 11:19 pm
Tyer, what if you were part of the 40% of that State that were held as slaves & the invading army would liberate you & your family (if you were lucky enough that yout master let you keep your family)?
July 22, 2011 at 11:12 pm
The Civil War was not about slavery? Just read what the original Confederates said in the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States at http//sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html. It seems to be ALL about SLAVERY. Helloooooooooooooo…earth to red necks.
September 12, 2011 at 4:53 am
The was a pretty narrow claim that we are all rred necks, your just as low as a hate group. Im a proud mother fuckin piece of white trash, and i dont take kindly to those words.
July 23, 2011 at 2:36 am
In 1965, one hundred years after the final skirmish of the Civil War the situation was no different for the African American. What did the North do to improve things ………………..Zip, nothing.If you choose to read history you will find slavery was rife in the nineteenth century and had been the norm in many cultures since Roman times.The South were just trying to make a labour intensive industry work by using cheap or ‘slave labour’.
September 23, 2011 at 10:17 pm
Ray,
It’s hard to be penpals with someone who writes a comment as thoughtless as this one. Review life in 1965 for blacks. Then review what the condition of slavery was like. Check out mothers watching thier children sold. Or children watching their fathers whiped. How about husbands having to stand by as white masters had sex with their wives. Trying to justify slavery as smart business or a “labour intensive” industry is idiotic. Southern whites were lazy and greedy and heartless. Would you employ slaves,Ray, and think it’s a smart thing to do?
Don
August 21, 2011 at 3:46 pm
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August 29, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t really care what some dumb*ss yankee thinks…I’m gonna do what the F*ck I want and feel is right regardless…anyone got a problem with that can kiss my *ss…Lol
August 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm
*Kiss my country a** I think you mean lol
August 30, 2011 at 8:30 pm
There seems to be a lot disagreeing regarding whether the Confederate Flag is racist. Honestly, I would say it is both. I live in the North, but I see two sides to the flag. I see the part where it stands for all the good values of the South, honor and such, and I agree with that. If all of America went off the basis of those values, I think our country would be a much better place. But then, living in the North by farms, in the backwoods, some of my friends and neighbors see it as a symbol of hate. No one can really say what it means, there is no definite to that. Its more like an opinionated flag. Just learn to live with it, because it will never die. And if it wasn’t for the KKK and other white supremacy groups, the Confederate Flag would never have been seen as a symbol of hate in the first place. To me, the flag is both. I’ve seen both sides, but that is all my opinion, and frankly, I don’t care what people say about it. The flag is the flag, and is flown with pride, alongside the other flag of our nation.
September 6, 2011 at 4:08 am
Fly the Southern Cross…………………..Let Dixie flutter!
Now’s the time to speak, and not the time to stutter.
Many before us have made the stand,
While we just stand and mutter.
The blood was spilt, the battle was cast,
The cannons were a- flashin’
The flags were flying, men were yelling,
Sabers were a-clashin.
The battle lost , but not the cause,this I can declare,
The South will rise again, of this I have no fear.
September 12, 2011 at 4:31 am
The flag was made to represent the cross roads separating the north from the south(mason dixon line).Easy enough, no racism involved and nothing else to bitch about.
September 12, 2011 at 4:49 am
And another thing, Separation is good, seems all you dumb asses cant get along. Fuck all you, ill take the woods as to hearing and seeing you all compair dick sizes. Most of you city folk white poeple get offended to the confederate flag anyways. If you dont like it kiss my ass. Dont buy one, and dont look at it, if you do a thing like damage it or throw it on the ground i will tare you apart.
September 12, 2011 at 11:56 am
Here’s the thing: If the SOUTH had won the war our nation would have been divided in the way that East/West Germany was divided. In addition, several southern states, disgruntled over Jefferson Davis would have seceded from the Dixie coalition. Furthermore, the unsettled WEST would have fallen into the hands of an invading force and the divided USA would have been too worn-torn to protect it. If the SOUTH had won, none of us (including you “patriots” who fly the Dixie flag) would be enjoying your current lifestyle. We would resemble South America. Would you fly the Japan flag? The German flag? These countries also wanted to destroy the USA. Forget racism as an issue — flying the Confederate flag is simply treason. There’s no place for it on public ground in this country — period. The SOUTH was an enemy to democracy.
Don
September 12, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Being a free country, if i want to fly a swastika or any flag, i should be aloud. The real treason and threats to our country are pieces of fabric that have symbols on them? Hell no. A flag is a flag, when people call it treason thats blowing it way out of purportion. Shit if thats treason, a shit ton of people will be arrested as terrorist commenting treason very shortly with the way things are going. America is becoming a commie nation. Fight the power
September 12, 2011 at 4:21 pm
You’re right. You can fly a flag, any kind of flag, on YOUR OWN property. That’s protected by the Constitution as it should be. But I said “public” place. State buildings, colleges, parks, etc. The Confederate flag and other enemy flags don’t belong there.
Don
September 13, 2011 at 12:31 am
Mexico WAS our enemy, it still flys bub, no mtter what ppl are gonna not like certain things no point in gettin red about it all. just like this whole page, waste of time. not all ppl like the same thing so there is always gonna be battles and figthing about dumb shit.
September 13, 2011 at 7:10 am
The Confederation of America which united eleven hard-working states could have been a very succesful and wealthy country like France and Grat Britain whch at the time ruled entire empires. Why do the most people always consider that secession is comparable to treason? Not at all. Each state of America has got the right to secede from the union. The union is in no way a dictatorship you can’t escape. The United States also made a secession of the English Empire and was successful.
September 13, 2011 at 7:23 am
Hard working? Hardly. A population of four million slaves — a social misfunction that would have ended soon regardless of the Civil War — kept that economy alive. In addition, there was tremendous acrimony between the southern states and several (South Carolina; Virginia in particular) were ready to secede from the confederacy and become their own countries. Spain would probably have acquired most of the west and would have been a constant threat. You can idealize this all you want, but the Confederate state’s mission, if succsessful, would have been a disaster for the Northern American hemishere.
Don
September 14, 2011 at 9:37 pm
yall gay as hell
September 14, 2011 at 9:39 pm
i just wanna know what it means/ symbolizes
September 17, 2011 at 8:45 pm
To Don Lowe, look up the meaning of CIVIL WAR. The Confederate forces were As American as the Union forces. Whether you agree or not The Civil war and all flags and emblems used during the conflict are part and parcel of history of the US. The Southern Cross was a recognised battle flag the same as the Swaztika was for Germany from1939 to 1945.You can’t undo history.The Confederate forces didn’t invade the US ,they were part of it. This is the complication of civil conflict.The Southern Flags are as American as their Northern counterparts.Deal with it Mr Lowe.
September 17, 2011 at 9:26 pm
Well, your comment Mr. Wilson is several steps above “yall gay as hell” which one of your other confederate flag patriots has offered — yet, you are arguing my point. Do you see the Swaztiga flying above any court houses in this country? No, you don’t: Because they were an enemy to the USA. No, the Southern flags (what, exactly, are “the Southern flags”?) are not as American as the Stars and Stripes. Deal with it? I am. I am telling you what is true and factual. How are you dealing with it? By hanging on to some romantic malarchy about the “noble” SOUTH? The CSA soldiers might have been brave in some misguided way, but mostly, they were idiot pawns in a rich man’s game to keep states rights (slavery) alive so the wealthy plantation owners could continue making easy money. The confederate flag is a sham symbol for morons who write things such as, “yall gay as hell.” Deal with it, Mr. Wilson.
September 20, 2011 at 5:20 pm
What in “me bitch”s statements led you assume that he or she was a “confederate flag patriot”, Don? Does the use of yall tell you everything you need to know about an individual? That’s a rather moronic assumption in anyone’s book!
September 20, 2011 at 5:23 pm
If this upsets you then “deal with it Donald”. Lol
September 20, 2011 at 7:23 pm
Well, gee, Tony, yes it might have been the “yall” that tipped me off. Also, the fact that Me Bitch seems to be, in his or her own colorful way, in opposition of my post. But you know what? Maybe I judged too quickly. Maybe Me Bitch can elucidate us with more of his or her particular prose style and end the mystery as to which side he or she is on. I can see why you’re so sensitive to this, Tony. People often equate being southern with being stupid, and while the entries on this blog do little to go against that stereotype, I feel it is an unfair treatment of southern citizens. Just trying to deal with it here, pal.
September 19, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Mr. Lowe you have truly missed the point. The Southern states were at loggerheads with the power apportioned to the Northern states simply because of their bigger population and their clout in the White House.Lincoln had promised more power to self-govern to the individual states but when push came to shove the Senate would not grant these powers.The North was in control and making good revenue from Southern produce and was not prepared to surrender that luxury.The South on the other hand was hitting a brick wall when trying to get fare representation in government matters.When all avenues had been tried civil conflict was the last resort.Instead of crucifying this action we should be at least studying the situation from both camps.
September 19, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Mr. Wilson,
You make a thoughtful response — and what you write is true. I agree. If the South wanted a firmer control of its constituent’s states rights (and among them and the most important of which was slavery) it had to take the course of war. Many of the treasured right’s that citizens of the CSA enjoyed — again, the most important of these was slavery; 4 million of the CSA’s 9 million residents were slaves — were going to end. Politics, as you point out, was against the South. Also, the North made good money on slavery too, plus, northern states held slaves as well. (The issue of slavery was not the hot button topic of its day that historians make it into now — Lincoln’s aim, at first anyway, was to keep the South in line. He didn’t declare abolishment of slavery until it was politically wise for him to do so.)
But my point is simple and it is this: if the South, who was primarily fighting for the right to keep slaves (even the most hardened of folks understand slavery to be an abhorrant condition) had won the conflict, then the USA would look starkly different than it does today. It might not even exist. It certainly wouldn’t exist as it does today. The South would not have prospered either, as countries, one by one, over the next 100 years, would have boycotted Southern goods due to slavery — a condition deemed inhumane by most of the world’s people even in 1861. I completely understand why individuals fly the Confederate flag, though it is certainly not a choice I’d personally make. But how can the flag of an enemy of the USA fly on a court house, school, or post office? That’s the discussion I’d like to have.
Best wishes,
Don
September 20, 2011 at 4:22 pm
Well,my good man you do make a good point.If the South had have won the conflict and gained their independence many benefits may have been short-lived although I do believe their direct trade links with Britain and Europe would have strengthened their economy greatly.I also feel as you do that slavery would have diminished in time as it would have fallen out of favour with the general public.As you also pointed out flying the flag from the tops of public buildings may create anger on the streets below, but as I have stated before right or wrong, agree or not the Southern flags, the Stars and Bars, the Stainless banner, the third flag and the Southern Cross battle flag are all part of US history. They were a large part of National history for four years and the ensuing conflict which snuffed out over 600,000 lives, all American lives,[not including overseas units who served on either side].One hundred and fifty years later this is still being discussed and I dare say the last has not been said.But I do enjoy a discussion with an open mind such as yours.
Cheers,
Ray.
September 20, 2011 at 7:33 pm
Ray,
Well, Britain and France backed away from the CSA during the war — but yes maybe they would have come around again. I won’t argue about the South prospering, it’s only conjecture on my part. and on the part of historians. However, I think it would have had a helluva tough time being it’s own country. Jefferson Davis would not have been at the helm, for sure.
Your response to my central point makes sense. If that was the reason the Confederate flag flies on civic southern buildings then I would be more tolerant. However, I think, for some people and entities, there are more sinister reasons for the flag flying. But, again, that’s conjecture on my part. Thanks for the conversation.
Don
September 21, 2011 at 5:25 am
Don, it does look like we could meet in the middle here.It is a real shame so much blood was spilled and lives changed for ever and at the end of it all not a lot had changed and to top it off feelings are still raw after 150 years.Before I leave this earth I have one wish . I would love to visit some of these battle sites.To walk the ground where these brave souls fought and died to create ‘their’ ideal America.Where even families were divided, where cousin fought cousin, and brother fought brother.
I have enjoyed our short but very interesting exchange of ideas and would like to touch other topics as well via normal e-mail if that is okay with you please let me know.You seem to be a well educated person and have proved to be one who enjoys a bit of history.
Cheers again.
Ray Wilson.
September 21, 2011 at 9:34 am
Ray,
Likewise, I have enjoyed exchanging ideas with you. You’re so right — the feelings are still raw after all these years. The Civil War was an incredible piece of history — I think the most incredible part of US history. Like you say, brothers pitted against brothers. Goodness, most of the generals and other officers knew each other personally, had trained together; many were close friends with each other and had fought together in other fronts as partners. Must have been very strange for them to face each other. Please do stay in touch. I hope you get to walk as many battlefields as you’d like. I aim to do the same. Be well, Don
September 21, 2011 at 5:10 pm
It was then as it is now. Britain and France would put commerce before moral conviction. They wouldn’t have ceased trade with the South based on the slavery issue as long as the coins were rolling in. Morality has been used as a means to and end…when the end was profit. Steps towards secession were begun by several New England states near the end of The War of 1812…because northern shipping interests were suffering monetarily by the war. Southern secession would not be allowed in 1861 because of the loss of great sums of Southern tariffs that were subsidizing northern industry and the federal government. The slavery issue was a pawn used by Lincoln to gain support in the north and abroad for an increasingly unpopular war. Several actions by Lincoln could be construed as act of war prior to Ft. Sumpter…the flooding of the border states and California by federal troops to prevent further secession…the blockading of Southern ports (of which the reinforcement and attempted resupply of Ft. Sumpter was a part of). Slavery at the time was dying out around the world…usually with a plan to integrate the slave population into society…but nowhere was a war declared that cost the lives of over 600,000 citizens to end it…nor was that why Lincoln declared war on the Southern states.
September 23, 2011 at 10:07 pm
Tony,
I’m sorry, but I can’t make hide nor hair of what you’re trying to say here. A couple blatant examples: “Nowhere was a war declared that cost the lives of over 600,000 citizens to end it” << what exactly does that sentence mean?
Also, "slavery at the time was dying out in the world ….usually with a plan to integrate the slave poulation into society…." Hello? Bueller? Bueller?? Did the SOUTH have such a plan? What other countries had such a plan? You'd have to show that to me.
I give you credit for trying. I think you're trying to say that the CSA would have survived as its own country. Well, maybe. But the southerners (and Me BItch) would be living much differently than now, especially with France or Spain taking over most of CA, Oregon, Washington, Dakota Territiory (my home), Wyoming, New Mexico, Utah, Idaho and Colorado.
Gen. Lee was crazy not to talk Jeff Davis into surrendering after Gettysburg. Once the CSA lost the chance to reach D.C. on July 3, 1863 it was toast. People forget that the rebels lost Vicksburg to Grant on the same day. The CSA had no waterway ports open anymore. The only thing left was pain and suffering and the Ku Klux Klan.
Best wishes,
Don
September 24, 2011 at 1:01 am
I’ll try to type slowly that you might comprehend. I would suggest you study the United Kingdom’s “Slavery Abolition Act of 1833” as a start. If you know anything of American history you would be aware that our founding fathers formed a “republic” in which states were sovereign prior to the War of Northern Aggression…meaning they were self-governing; independent. Legitimacy of the state was created by the will or consent of it’s people, who are the source of all political power. That’s why so many Southern men and officers, pro-slavery or anti-slavery, pro or anti-secessionist honored their state’s decision and fought in defence of their homeland. The original intent of the government as a voluntary union between willing sovereigns, for common benefit, was replaced by Lincoln and northern interests with a leviathan centralized state with assumed authority to coerce and dominate its subordinate parts. Exactly what our founding fathers attempted to prevent. Therefore any “plan” in regards to slavery in the South or anywhere else in the union prior to Lincoln was on a state by state basis. And to answer your question if there was a “plan” to end slavery or what to do with the slave population after emancipation the answer is a resounding YES! The talk and debate began in mostly northern states as they went from an agricultural to an industrial society. But there had been much debate and discussion among southern or “slave states” as well. As to France and Spain “taking over” the West, I feel that’s presuming a hell of a lot!!! And Lee surrendering after Gettysburg? Why? They had won most major battles prior to that. At First Manassas they could have chased the Union army and their “entourage” of on-lookers back to D.C. and captured Washington. But their objective at that time was to defend Southern soil. They merely wanted to be left alone. However my purpose on this blog is not to debate battle strategy…who had the biggest guns and cahones…who won the war…or who’s a stud and who’s a bitch…rather it’s to illustrate true history…and not that history that has been manipulated and omitted in order to serve the purpose of the victor…right or wrong.
September 21, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Looking for a penpal with an interest in the Civil War?
Reply to ray.val.wilson@gmail.com
Cheers,
Ray Wilson
September 24, 2011 at 1:38 am
Ray, I have an interest…although not a scholar… nowhere close as ignorant on the subject as the guy you’ve been debating with…think you and he know who I mean…I’m not rude… just intolerant of a-holes who demean people over a topic they haven’t a clue about.
September 24, 2011 at 8:25 am
Tony,
You don’t have to write more slowly, just a little clearer and with purpose. The “Slavery Abolition Act of 1833″ was created to make slavery in the UK illegal. The world was changing. You are making my point that slavery in the south would be viewed unfavorably worldwide in the coming years. In fact, it already was viewed that way. And yes, as you say, progress on the slave issue in the U.S. was made mostly in the Northern States. And yes, there were a handful of Southern abolitionists, too. But a Southern “plan” afoot to help slaves assimilate into society? You might stop hurling names and insults long enough to realize and admit that you have overstated your case.
Your gassy interpretation of the Founding Fathers intent does not interest me. There were many reasons why the Southerners seceded and they weren’t all about slavery. This is obvious. Lincoln did not go into the “War of Northern Agression” (as you call it) to end slavery — he began it as a last resort to make the South capitulate and re-join the states. “A house divided …” etc.
To the main point of this blog. The Confederate flag means different things to different people. Obviously. There’s little glory in asking people to think differently. We can only hope that people act in the best interests of humanity — again, different for everyone. The CSA will always carry the stain of slavery ( 4 million of it’s 9 million residents in 1861 were slaves) and the stain of racial brutality in the years following. (The north has plenty of that stain too, though people gloss over it more easily — an unfairness to the south.) Since the main states-right-reason (what were the others?) that the CSA was concerned with and so vigorously defended was slavery, it stands to good reason that many, many people equate the flag of Dixie as a symbol of oppresion and racial inequality. Yet, other folks, not so bothered by slavery and later, the Ku Klux Klan along with Jim Crow laws and a host of other racial inequities, see the confederate flag as a shining beacon of hope. I see the Confederate flag as an enemy of the USA in the same way that I view Al Qaeda as an enemy — I’d hate to see that flag over a courthouse. We must always be thankful, as we enjoy this great country that the USA is, that the North defeated the South in that conflict.
Best wishes,
Don
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September 24, 2011 at 11:05 am
Don,
I have watched you pompously insult folks on this blog. You put forward many gratuitous assertions. And by the rules of logical argument any gratuitious assertion can be equally gratuitously denied. You, like everyone, are entitled to your opinion, but not to the facts.
You write “The “Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 was created to make slavery in the UK illegal”. You fail to mention that Article 1 Section 9 was written into the Constitution (1787) to forbid the importation of “persons” after 1806. At that time (1806), Jefferson tried to call Congress to fortify that article with legislation, but did not get it signed into law until 1808.
You mention the brutality of slave owners yet you cite no primary sources for your argument. You don’t mention the such things as the New York Draft Riots of 1863 where northerners killed 119 negroes, and where attempting to “burn the n****r nest”, referring to an institution where 240 some black kids where hiding in fear. If it were not for an Irishman getting those kids to a police precinct, they would have been burned alive. This for the anger of northerners over a “n****r war”. Their words, not mine.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/lostmuseum/searchlm.php?function=find&exhibit=nyc&browse=nyc
http://www.mapsites.net/gotham/es/_alexblankfein_es.htm#_ftnref29 (you can follow the primary sources from there)
This is just the tip of the iceburg here. Slavery was America’s problem, not just that of the south. You cannot judge the 1800s by today’s standards, a many many modern historians do.
To the point of this blog, the “Stars and Bars”, in modern times can mean different things to different people, BUT you cannot change what it meant to the people of the south during the 1800s. You don’t have that power nor that right. It is today as it always has been, the federalists against the anti-federalists. New Englanders, as a group, along with the left coast believe in the power of the central government, southerners and flyovers, as a group, believe in individual liberty and individual responsibility. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
You wrote”… I can see why you’re so sensitive to this, Tony. People often equate being southern with being stupid, and while the entries on this blog do little to go against that stereotype, I feel it is an unfair treatment of southern citizens. Just trying to deal with it here, pal.
Let’s just see how that feels on the other foot: I can see why you’re so sensitive to this, Don. People often equate being a yankee with being stupid covered by a fascade of bravado, and while the entries on this blog do little to go against that stereotype, I feel it is an unfair treatment of yankees. Just trying to deal with it here, pal.
September 24, 2011 at 3:46 pm
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September 24, 2011 at 8:38 pm
Al qaeda? You obviously haven’t been to Afghanistan! I just got back! The Confederate flag is no different than the thirteen colony flag when we fought for our independence from England. It is a patriotic symbol that I am proud to stand and shoot my 1841 six pounder cannon under! Shame on you for comparing it to to Alqaida! Compare Sherman’s March to the sea to Hitler or the Taliban! I can see that more clearly! We followed the original founding fathers! We had a ban on the import of slaves in the Confederate Constitution. Where in the U.S. Constitution of that same time period can you find such a ban? I will continue to fly my flag with pride.
September 24, 2011 at 11:54 pm
Well, Ricky, the Confederate flag is quite a bit different — for one, the colonies won. The folks carrying the Confederate flag lost. And thank goodness they did for what a mess that would have been. You wouldn’t be living in the USA that you enjoy now. Not even close. Sherman’s march to the sea was completely unnecessary if only the Gen. Lee would have surrendered earlier. Lee knew it was over on July 3rd, 1863. But for some reason, maybe his belief that God (don’t all armed forced fight with God!) was on his side. The original founding fathers — as opposed to what? The unoriginal ones? The Founding Fathers were not of one head, by the way. Encapsulating the “thinking” of a group of folks whose signatures landed on the Constitiution is folly and one would need a book, not a sentence to do it. As soon as I hear people bring up “the founding fathers” I know they are lost in their argument. Ban on the import of slaves? Yes, that stood for the entire country and was in no way brought about by the South. You’re trying to say the SOUTH was at the forefront of abolition? And it had, what? Four million slaves in 1861? Right. Go ahead, Ricky, fly your flag with pride. But stop deluding yourself with half-baked history. I do think shooting the six-pounder is pretty cool, though. And I’m glad you’re back from Afghanistan, hopefully safely. Thanks for what you’ve done. Be well.
Best,
Don
September 25, 2011 at 4:14 pm
When the war was over and the North declared themselves the victors things immediately improved for the slaves……………………….yeah right. Even after one hundred years African Americans were banned from many things , even riding in the same public transport as whites.Up to the nineteenth century many developed nations had cheap or slave labour. As I have stated before the South were not invaders of America they were also Americans.This was CIVIL war,i.e. internal conflict.Compare it to Libya for instance.If the rebels win the conflict and become the government they are not invaders they are and always were Libyans and are as loyal to their nation as the forces of their corrupt , murderous leader Gaddaffi.
Fly that flag Ricky you are no invader, you are as American as the next guy!!!
Ray.
September 27, 2011 at 6:02 am
I was told the battle flag has nothing to do with race. It was a religious flag the south fought under. why would the south fight with a flag of 13 stars, the south did not have 13 states. the stars represent the 12 apostles, with the 13th star in the center representing Jesus Christ. The blue is for his Royalty, the red is for His blood. This is what I was told in a class long ago the man told the class his GGgrandfather fought in the south and this is the meaning of the battle flag. NOW, you may better understand why people want the flag removed, because it is religious, but no one wants the average person to know that so they have defiled that meaning and turned it into a race thing. So think about it, doesn’t this make more sense, the south fought with a religious flag, and if not religious then what did the flag mean to the south?
September 27, 2011 at 4:19 pm
Oh Fred ,you have wandered down a strange path there! The Southern Cross is neither religious nor racist. It was a battle flag.Beauregard flew it for the first time and other regimental leaders adopted it as it was vastly different to the Stars and Stripes flown by the Northern forces and therefore prevented confusion on the battlefield.Eleven states left the Union and two more supported those eleven ,thus thirteen stars.The cross apparently came from the Celtic background which ran through a lot of Southern family bloodlines. As for the red background your guess is as good as mine, I suspect it would be something to do with bloodletting.Lets not read too much into a symbol that was created to make the situation less complicated.
Cheers, Ray.
October 4, 2011 at 10:12 am
To all of you that think the Confederate Flag is a flag of racism…GET A LIFE!! It is NOT a flag of racism! We live in the United States of America, don’t we? Yes we do (I thought we did anyway)!! Everyone here has the right to fly any flag they want at any time and at any place be it government or not. The way someone perceives the meaning of something is their problem not yours! LET IT GO PEOPLE!
October 4, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Good one Cindy, you are on to it! Let the goodie-good pencil necks take note,if it was a racial cause would the Southern states have split from the Union and try to deal with it without Northern help. Remember the South had a huge African-American population, many of whom wore the grey uniform of the South. Even alliances were formed with Indian tribes in the struggle against the North. These groups along with the Southern States were being unfairly treated by the government according to their representatives in parliament. Thus the vote to split from the Union.
Cheers,
Ray Wilson.
October 5, 2011 at 1:10 pm
wish i still had my shirt “slavery gets shit done…” had a picture of the pyramids on it anywho, i always heard the flag came from a religous design. the crossed bars represent the crucifixtion crosses. those who were either crucified along side or after or before Jesus, were nailed to “x”‘s….i don’t know, just heard it on discovery or something…could’ve dreamt it or made it up…..
October 5, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Wake up people, slavery still exists today.The huge multi-national companies have their products manufactured or assembled off-shore in countries, where labour is cheaper Why? To generate an industry in Korea or China to help the locals? No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s to have the product on the shop shelves at a competitive price and keep their share of the market.Slavery may be frowned on and condemned as labour for production but it is never far away.In the 1800’s without slave labour the cotton would not have got to the wharves, and the North would not have enjoyed much of the wealth it did due to export and import tariffs.
Cheers
Ray Wilson.
October 12, 2011 at 5:45 pm
I agree with you totally. Slavery is very much still in existance. Everything from: oversea’s child labor and underpayed foreign workers, to underpayed educated black americans. I am in a bi-racial relationship and deal with racism very often. The “rebel” flag has been flown in front of my face by white individuals with big fat smiles on their face. The flag is used disrespectfully, and half of the individuals flying the damn thing can’t even tell you what the colors stand for, or how many stars are on it. In the beginning, the confederate flags red and blue were a lighter shade of red. The KKK changed the colors by darkening the red and blue. It may have meant heritage at one time, but the KKK turned the flag into a worthless piece of trash that I would not wrap my pitbulls shit in. Thank u KKK.
October 12, 2011 at 10:01 pm
I hate to see the flag and what ever you say it stands for. With out slavery this country would not be what it is today. People can say what they like but we all know the truth and you know what’s is in your hearts. The war was about freeing blacks, but free labor vs paid labor. The south was selling goods to north an making huge profits. Until people start doing whats right for everyone and not for themselves we as a people will fall. I can go on and on about this , but change has to come from us. Each of us have to step up, forget the pass, and do whats right for us today. If we don’t wake up the USA will not make much longer. We fight with each out over any and everything when we should be fighting together. We are so divided rich vs poor, black’s vs whites, and everything else in between. That is way we are going down. Be for long there will be nothing to fight over. We are all people and have our bad ways, no one is better than the next. If the country is not making money how it grow, companies are moving over sea to build plants. Turning us into an import country, when we sell very few goods to them. We have all we need here if we start working together as one.
October 13, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Every great nation has ‘growing pains’ in their development, e.g. Great Britain, The old Russian Union,etc.USA is no exception. In the years leading up to the Civil War the nation was expanding rapidly and coming to terms with industrial technology and creating overseas trade and developing new territories.The Civil War was part of that maturing process.A political conflict which could not be settled through due process lead to four years of bloodshed .This was to be part of the nation’s growing pains.Both sides will argue their points until the cows come home.The 21st century way is to respect each other’s point of view and settle the problem. Let us not forget the war took place and many good lives in the process.All those good folk were fighting for what the firmly believed to be the best for America.Lets respect the views of both sides of the dispute and not disrespect their flags and symbols, the South were Americans too! The ‘rebel’ flag represented one out of every five US citizens.
Cheers
Ray.
October 20, 2011 at 7:42 pm
i disagree with the person that wrote this because im southern and there is noooo way that we are harming the USA! i am very proud and love my country… the rebel flag means southern pribe herited and us southerns live up to it i have everything rebel and yes so what if we are racist that dont mean anything… the mexcains can come to our country take all of our jobs take over cities, fly their flag and they can were mexico shirts around and people dont do a damn thing about it but we have to stop flying the flag that we love? that is some messed up bullshit excuse my month but its not right thats like me going over to mexico or afica or anywere besides here and flying the USA flag and the Rebel flag if i did that i would probly get shoot at… so to who ever wrote this i dont care if your are or were in the amry you really need a history lesson! cause if this flag offends you you totally need a history lesson! oh and a few more things us southerns,rednecks, hillybillys whatever you wanna call us witch i dont care what you call me but if you even think about sayin that we are trying to hurt/harm our country you are WRONG! because me love we fight and defend our country more then anyone ever could. so man up and take a lesson from a southern… you dont know what your talking about… thanks to all the people who are with the rebels and with southerns for supporting us because its true… thanks guys…
October 22, 2011 at 3:06 am
Thanks for that, you proved my point. The Southerners weren’t anti American, they were anti Northern policy.The rebel flag is NOT against the country but part of it’s make-up.The Rebel element is part of the DNA you might say of what makes up the USA you see today. This is not a bad thing. The country has endured it’s’ baptism of fire’ or it’s transition into maturity. It split from Mother England and took care of attempts to invade it’s shores and established it’s boundaries and became a world Super Power. The Civil War was instrumental in shaping this great nation, it was never the intention of the Southern cause to bring their nation to it’s knees.
Cheers.
Ray Wilson
October 25, 2011 at 12:41 am
Most of you make good points. Some of you make excellent points. I can see how some people think the flag represents racism; I also see how the flying the flag can be seen as treasonous activity. Regardless, each individual has their own reasons and interpretations of the flag’s meaning. They are, however, just that. So what if I’m racist and want to fly the ‘rebel’ flag Why does it displease you? I believe that a major problem in America is our impractical quest for true equality. Everyone wants the government to cater to their sensitivities. When did Americans turn into, for lack of a better word, pansies? Why does it bother you that your fellow countryman is racist? Is it hurting you? How much does it really affect you? Does it really mess up your day that someone doesn’t like you? Americans, lose the egos.
October 25, 2011 at 3:19 am
Soooooooo true!!! A powerful nation needs to be made up of powerful people.The most powerful of these people shall be the nation’s leader i.e. the President. When the times get tough you get tougher and now is the time to do just that! FACT: in 1861 civil war broke out between the Northern States and the South. This conflict lasted four years and over 600,000 lives were lost.FACT: this is a part of American history, right or wrong, good or bad, this took place on American soil and has been recorded by countless witnesses.Believe it , study it try to understand why it took place, the passions that were in the hearts of young Americans in those days. The leaders and soldiers of the South who gave up so much for their cause, sometimes gave up their lives weren’t stupid.They could see a better America coming out of all this if they succeeded.There cost was great but their bounty was also great if they were victorious.There is a saying………….War doesn’t decide who is right only who is left. Think about it! The Stars and Bars or the Southern Cross should be flown with pride by those who feel the passion to do so just keep everything in perspective when doing so. The National flag at the top of the pole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Ray Wilson.
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November 11, 2011 at 3:45 pm
I don’t understand why America wants to go backwards with history instead of going forward. Everybody knows the confederate flag stands for racism, segregation, and everything in between. This flag to black people, and native indians is a symbol of the times when whites were trying to enslave people, and profit off of free labor. Bad enough the south was mostly the recipient of west Africans brought to America in boats, but its kind of like going to Isreal and waving a nazi flag around. It stands for hate.
November 11, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Without roots, a tree can’t grow. Without Histroy a nation stands still and can’t develop inner worth> It is a good thing to read history and to understand the previous generations without udging them by our values and morail standards. There is nothing in common between the confederation and the national socialist Germany. It is a silly thing to compare them because both were at a time ennemy of the Union. Why don’t you compare the confederation with Ho Chi Min Vietnam or with the contemporary Moslim states with which the Union is or was at war. As for Israel, you did a good thing not to mention them because this is the most racialist and segregationist state the the modern world has given.
November 13, 2011 at 12:30 am
To Jhn. Man you have got it soooooo wrong! Leave your attitude behind and read the history surrounding the Civil War and the time leading up to it.Then and only then come back with an opinion on the Southern Rebellion against the Federal Forces. The Nazis were crazed criminals and their activities were horrific and have no place on this site. Hitler was a fanatic and his subordinates were as bad. Jefferson Davis was struggling to deliver a better deal to the people who elected him to office.No Connection!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers Ray Wilson.
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November 22, 2011 at 8:07 am
The confederate flag is not a sign of racism. Ignorant hate groups have disgraced that flag and the brave souls who fought for it.Now, i love my country and have served it honorably and still am. But let me make this point… i am American Indian.How may American Indians were slaughtered under the Union Flag? Never thought of that did you?
Racism is ignorance. However, it seems like some races want to use any crutch they can to get ahead. Be proud of your race and heritage. Stop focusing on the race issue and live your life.
The Confederate Flag is part of our history and it must stay and be honored. it has been said if you alter or try to alter history, its devastating.
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November 25, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Good one Farmer you’ve got it in one! Why are so many missing the point?You made a good point about the Indian people being killed in the name of opening up the West.
Cheers,
Ray.
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December 3, 2011 at 8:51 am
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December 3, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Why should the southern cross represent treason for his home state for somebody who lives in Dixieland. Is there no place for different opinions in America ? If so, it is become a country of bigots and low brows. The despair of Eurpeans who have always believed that their relatives oversea could develop a better way of life.
December 5, 2011 at 5:16 pm
You need a lesson in History. The Civil War was all about slavery. Louisiana Purchase to the Missouri Compromise to Popular Sovereignty to the Dred Scott Decision. There’s no denying the main cause of the Civil War was slavery.
December 10, 2011 at 8:14 pm
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December 12, 2011 at 1:43 am
To Boneyard.We are talking about events that took place 150 years ago in an enviroment totally alien to what we know today. Slavery was rife in the ‘developed’ nations and I dare say the ‘new America’ was active in engaging imported labour or ‘slave labour’ .Big deal pal.would you rather be starving in Africa or getting regular meals in America——harsh but true! Without this form of labour the cotton industry would have failed.Take a close look at your latest tv, phone or stereo, if it reads Made In [China or Korea] YOU are supporting ‘slave labour’ with your purchase!Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers’
Ray.
January 4, 2012 at 11:14 am
THE REBEL BATTLE FLAG DOES NOT REPRESENT RACISM. IT REPRESENTS A SCOTTISH SAINT. THE SO CALLED NORTH WAS MAD BECAUSE THE SOUTH BEAT THEM TO THE PUNCH SO THEY CHANGED THE FLAG TO WHAT WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH…13 STRIPES AND STARS…THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THERE WERE MORE SLAVES OWNED IN THE NORTH THEN THERE WAS IN THE SOUTH, EVEN BEYOND THE CIVIL WAR. REMEMBER THAT MOST MEN, ESPECIALLY, DOWN SOUTH DID NOT OWN A SLAVE, LET ALONE 20,30,40 SLAVES OR WHATEVER BE THE CASE. LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE AND SEE THAT IT WAS A PLOY TO MISLEAD YOU FOR YEARS…THEY TEACH YOU WHAT YOU ONLY KNOW. WELL NOW YOU REALLY DO KNOW. IT WAS A BATTLE FLAG. THEY FOUGHT THE TYRANTS AND NEARLY WON. BUT HECK WHO REALLY WINS THE WAR…RIGHT?,
January 7, 2012 at 3:51 pm
I strongly disagree with you i am from the south and i proudly fly the confederate flag is is NOT about racism. Its about heritage NOT hate
January 10, 2012 at 6:15 pm
I commend this article. The author clearly has their facts straight and has presented a good representation of the Confederate Flag as it had once been. But he, like I, understands the major influence of its reputation and although understands the other side of the argument, knows that the flag should not be flown or represented in public places. It IS treason.
Thank you very much for writing this article.
March 11, 2012 at 12:10 am
Thats awfully harsh to call it treason! I mean to be in a country that is protected by constitution to display belief!!! Or maybe I spoke out of turn, you maybe in China whee it would be treason. That would make since.
January 14, 2012 at 3:15 am
The Rebel Flag was a part of American history for four years, right or wrong, like it or hate it. It is not racist, religious, or sexist let those who wish to fly it do so. Many of those who do so do so in memory of family members who gave their all for that flag a century and a half ago.Respect that and deal with it!
Cheers.
Ray.
January 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Ray,
Good point brother! I want to tell you I thoroughly enjoy your comments! Keep them coming, you always come out on top. Hard to beat a person of high intelligence !
Carry on,
Farmer!
January 14, 2012 at 9:18 pm
One my mother side I’m a direct decent of a confederate soldier my fathers family changed the spelling of their last name to not look German I’m also a former marine
It is not treason for a state to fly the confederate flag or part of if it is flown properly
No flag is to be flown even with or above the flag of the U S A. Forcing a state to change their flag in order to receive fed funds which the citizens pay is wrong. You talk about flying the confederate flag is treason because of the war between the states what about the Mexican flag that I see flying on gov property not only have they invaded the U S we are invaded daily by their people coming into the U S illegally Yet I see the Mexican flag on gov property and most cases flown level with the U S flag why is it I hear no protests about this I guess it is not on comrade obama or his supporters agenda I fly my confederate flag my marine corps flag and until comrade obama is removed from office the U S flag upside down
January 16, 2012 at 12:33 am
So let me ask you Becky, to the American Indians that were slaughtered under the Union Flag, whats the difference ? You seem to be missing the point that many Americans fought and died for that flag for a cause they believed in. Slavery was one of the issues in the war but wasn’t the only one as people are taught up North. People again seem to forget that even the Union States had slaves too. If I remember correctly, 90 slaves or Negro men were hung in New York City for not wanting to fight for the Union. Stop bantering on the Confederate Flag supporters.
February 6, 2012 at 8:57 pm
I see the rebel flag and get sick to my stomach. The same way your ancestors passed storys of honor to you mine passed storys of houndreds of years of abuse FROM your ancestors. No one can deny that salvery had a part in the civil war. Southerners faught to keep their way of life going INCLUDING slavery and on that imoral FACT alone I can’t respect the flag they faught under. Then when they lost the war and their slaves they put on sheets flew tha flag and raped beat and terrorized blacks including women and children in every way possible to make sure that in no way shape or form would a black southerner have any opportunity to become more than a white southerner. Everyone knows horrible things happined in and after slavery but nobody want to take credit for that for their ancestors. Who wants to claim kidnap,rape(children included) seperation of family, beatings for their family???Yes its constitutional to fly your little flag but does that make it right? A rebel flag to blacks is like a swastika flag to a jewish person and knowing this you still feel proud of your flag? No one faught for me nor my President under that flag an tho every person that flys the flag may not be rasist the flag represents years of hurt to a whole race of people. And then again many who fly the flag do have racist or prejudice issues passed in your blood. How many of you that fly you flags voted for OUR President? WHY are you online talking badly about YOUR president? “Before we shoot him” Never before in my life have I heard people talk so negativly of their President nor was it respectful to do so in the community so why in particular is this ONE different? How many of you wouldn’t mind your white daughters dating black men or having little mixed grandbabies? I bet the deep down true answeres of how some of you feel about those questions would show that you fly your flags for more reasons than tha noble ones you claim
January 17, 2012 at 12:58 am
Go Farmer.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is clear that not too many have studied the circumstances that surrounded the outbreak of hostilities between the North and the South that created the conflict we are all debating at the moment.Please folks , do your homework and come back informed on the subject.
Cheers.
Ray.
February 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm
well they fly it in the north and they dont like anyone who is not white and the war was for slavey with that flag I know people say it was because they did not believe the north or government way of THINKING umm what was the south way of thinking slaves bring in a lot of money back then umm and it didnt mean white pride if u say that then u jump right into the flags meaning SLAVERY I GUESS U DONT HAVE TO BE A RACIST TO WANT SLAVERY wow!!! there are some stupid people out there
February 14, 2012 at 7:50 pm
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February 17, 2012 at 3:00 am
the south always seems like : holocaoust is to jews, as the south is to anybody not white, a member of the tea party, or practices their religion.
and when you think of patriotism, its like “your either with us, or your a fucking terrorist”
February 23, 2012 at 1:59 am
it was the north that invaded the south not the other way around
February 23, 2012 at 2:03 am
all the racist groups also carry the american flag
March 1, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Your point is???? The American flag has nothing to do with the confederate flag. The American flag is just that the flag of our country. The confederate flag is a flag of treasonist who turned terrorist after they lost the war.(war lost so loose the flag) A German with racist views can fly a nazi flag as well as the German flag but the country flag has nothing to do with the racist one. The fact that he shares the same views as hitler so he flys the same flag as hitler. Or maybe his ancestors faught as a nazi under hitler so its his pride and heritage. This just means that in his mind he is a “patriotic” racist…Stop trying to compare apples to oranges one has nothing to do with the other. One flag tells where he is from the other shows how he feels/thinks.
March 2, 2012 at 11:46 am
Lots of rock bans fly the rebel flag just to show how rebel they are, it does not mean that they are racist. Moreover, the rebel flag or statrs and bars has gained sympathy for generation in favour of the southern states in Europe, United Kingdom, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. THose countries has no idea of the racial issue in the States.
March 6, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Okay, so your saying that all people who fly a lost war flag, are terrorists? That makes not one lick of sense to me,boy. You’re telling everyone that they can’t fly the flag because the south lost the battle? Well guess what! THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO! Northerner!
-Confederate Girl
February 29, 2012 at 11:53 am
The flag is my belt buckle. And the flag on my truck.up here in canada
March 6, 2012 at 11:19 pm
I love that you have it all the way up in Canada. It means nothing bad. It’s a sign of heritage
-Confederate Girl ❤
March 9, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Once again your point is?? There are bands, neo nazies, people next door, tom dick and harries who show sympathy to the nazi flag. Does that mean that they are right? Does that mean that someone that’s jewish shouldn’t be offended by the flag? And Confederate girl why do I have to be a northerner? I am from and live in the (EX) capital of the confederacy and hated the north in the short time I lived there. I still wouldn’t be caught dead with a confederate flag on my truck or anywhere else because the flag has nothing to do with the pride of where I’m from. And the question is not weather or not you can have your flag the question is do you think its right to walk down the street offending a race of people who have every right to be offended by you. If you think it is right or are just too ignorant to care of anyone other than yourself then go ahead, beauty of United(not confederate) States of America.
March 5, 2012 at 4:28 pm
Tharad, I’m afraid my friend YOU are the one comparing apples to oranges.The Nazi movement had nothing in common with the Southern uprising.
Cheers.
Ray.
March 6, 2012 at 11:17 pm
I’m a very southern girl, from the southern state of Texas. I wear the Confederate flag (Stars and Bars) across my jacket everyday. I will soon be in a high school named after a very confederate person. Their symbol is a confederate soldier and the a rebel flag. I see nothing wrong with the Confederate flag. But when I first started to wear it, people called me a racist bastard. They would make fun of my all the time. One kid said this “______, you should be glad there aren’t very many black kids in this school, because you would offend every single one of them.” I told him to **** off. He hasn’t said a word since. And just to put this out there, the flag was a symbol of the south fighting for slavery. Not racism. But slavery. My US History teacher was telling me the other day, that the south was not being racist against blacks, they were wanting to keep slaves. The slavery was not about blacks being the slaves, many different races were enslaved over the many years. The only reason people believe it’s racist, is because they have made it that way. Not because it was created that way. I believe it is a southern thing. But most northerners have made it to were the flag is very bad to the world. That the flag is meant to be a bad sign and it was created for the oppression of blacks and their rights. That is not true at all. They created that flag for the same reason the US created their flag. IT WAS ONLY MEANT AS A SYMBOL SO THE OTHER SIDE COULD SEE THEM COMING OR SO THEY KNEW THEY WERE ON THEIR TERRITORY! No one at my school has argued with me after I give them the speech on this subject. One of the biology teachers I might have is black. She hates the Rebels and anything to do with the confederate anything. I know for a fact that she sent a junior to the office for wearing a rebel flag belt buckle because it was “racist against her because she’s black”. It’s not even against the rules to wear them. So what I’m saying is, is that people really need to stop dissing it because it’s offensive against them. If they have something to say, they need to keep it to themselves. HERITAGE NOT HATE!
March 8, 2012 at 1:15 am
Go Girl……………….You are right on the money.People are so quick to call the confederate movement something it wasn’t.Even one hundred years after the South surrendered and hostilities ceased things hadn’t changed one bit as far as the rights of African-Americans were concerned.The South needed slave labour to sustain their economy slaves; black, yellow, red whatever.The do good Northerners were painfully slow to make things better for any non white Americans, even today things could be better!
Cheers,Ray.
March 9, 2012 at 8:59 pm
Okay. So you don’t like it. It doesn’t mean you have to rag one everyone who has the flag. You might be black and all, but it’s not offensive. You’re still living in the past. I love that flag because it’s my school’s flag. It doesn’t mean I’m racist against black people. And it don’t mean I have slaves. It was in the past. People have made fun of me and called me a terrorist, and it made me cry and they didn’t apologize. Just because I have a flag, don’t mean I’m automatically racist. And by the way, it wasn’t against the blacks. People have made it that sign now days. Ya’ll just need to calm ya’ll selves down.
March 11, 2012 at 12:01 am
I am sorry you have such a hard time with this… I actually got so sick of the debate and went and got the tattoo, NOBODY has ask. NOT ONCE!
Not telling you what to do, but it is a thought
March 11, 2012 at 2:02 pm
Has nothing to do with the north or south has to do with ex confederates in hoods and sheets bringing terror to people with their confederate flags held high for over 100 years. And if anyone wants to deny that this happined then keep it to yourself bcz you don’t kno enough facts to waste space with a post. An this is not something that happined a million years ago it happind in my grandparenlife and my parents early life. But I’m ignorant because I don’t like the flag?
March 10, 2012 at 11:57 pm
I have to say this is a very long and on going debate. I am very curious about this and wish I could be in the mind of the people that this flag makes sick or would even try to compare it to the Nazi flag…
Do these same people critisize the British Rule because we as the American Colonies just wanted to be be left out of the bureaucracy of the taxes?
The stars and bars were just a battle flag, you know what makes me sick when I think about it to much.
Try to protect your own home and your own rights from a bigot and mark an X on your door, allow someone to take your wife and kids, change their veiws and then get a symethizer to fly that same X on tier lawn, and call them all of these hateful things… Makes no sense!
As far as abuse to slaves you are ignorant!!! Yes some times their was abuse, there is in so many homes today, but we just play that off. But to say every slave was abused, YOU MY FRIEND are being judgemental and abusive! If it makes you sick, your not to bright. This is a touchy subject and I am trying to be polite but, man people are just stupid!
March 11, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Ray wilson, YOU my friend need to read a little better before posting. You just took apples and oranges an somehow tried to make lemonade. I NEVER compared the nazi movement to the southern uprising. I compared two flags both which have racist ties. You may not be racist just because you have the flag but NO ONE can deny the strong racist links to the flag, and since there is NO doubt NOR question in any ones mind that the flag is offensive and borderline racist if not all the way racist instead all you can say is “umm..yea…well…racist organizations fly the American flag toooo” like that changes anything. And why would anyone thats not racist want to fly a flag that offends a race of people? If your proud of where your from go find a flag of your city/county/state/local sports teams etc. And if you have problems with your country/President then move to Canada and fly the flag on your truck where nobody give a damn.Better yet put your money where your mouth is and rebel against your country and get shut down….Do whatever backwards things you want on your own property, the flag has no business on a government property. End of discussion
March 11, 2012 at 2:49 pm
You my friend must be sick in the head to say all slaves weren’t abused. The fact that they were SLAVES with no freedom says it all. Everyone always gives the example of how good Thomas JEfferson treated Sally Hemmings bcz he set her free when he died but no one wants to talk about how she was a sex slave to him as a little girl since he was 30sum years older than her. And she ACTUALLY was the half sister of Jeffersons wife which shows that his wifes father liked to rape slaves too…then again its not rape when a human is your property (the same people who claim they don’t like race mixing have plenty of mixed family thanks to their ancestors having slave babies by the dozens)…yea man slavery was fun manuel labor from before sun up to after sun down, leftover food from the bighouse every night, family members getting sold and seperated left an right and if you where lucky enough to be raped for years an have babies by the master yoiu might get your freedom before you die. I almost got mad for a min but you probably really don’t know any better. You need to read up on slavery THEN smack whoever told you that slavery wasn’t abusive. And if you think my words are abusive just look at the bright side your not a sex sslave
March 11, 2012 at 8:47 pm
Your funny.. but seriously, I am not denying abuse, I am simply saying you nor anyone else on the face of the earth has PROOF that Thomas Jefferson raped her as a matter of fact it was a story told to me as a love affair, it just depends on how you might WANT to look at it cause he never married again, and was faithful… and now that outcome that we have to deal with is whiney asses that still want to cry that is was all about slavery. Would you hire cheap labor if you had a small business…. for real. Ask your self your just starting out and slavery was still in effect, white, black, yellow, red…. what ever, and you had little money cause the government takes it from you,and you still need to provide for your family and the investors money, they will kill you if you dont leave. You would do it and when it ended you would say WAIT a minute what do I do?
I know the answer. “I am going to fight to preserve the right to be in the pursuit of happiness”
So that brings me to the question that you ignored above about the X on the house. or maybe your reply is just like everything else you read, half truths and lies. I am not here to fight about salvery weather it be right or wrong, what I am here to debate is the Flag.
But you know what it seems sick that people allow black men at colleges to get a high school girl pregnant while passed out, and they say they had it comin, they shouldnt have been there, and they get probation… That just doesnt see right when you accuse, or assume one the most brilliant men on the face of the earth of rape. So you want to talk racism ask me why I am. NOT COLOR. HERITAGE!
March 11, 2012 at 9:05 pm
I didnt finish my thought… Its funny that this flag has always been attacked, and has never attacked anyone when used properly… the white power thing that seems to take over about this flag is false and has been abused by very sick groups.
What are you doing for these symbols to make you so nervous?
“NAACP can kiss my ass” that was David Allen Coe”
Thats right, white trash so am I!!! WHAT???
March 11, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Abraham Lincoln, January 12, 1848 speech in Congress:
“Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right — a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit.”
March 12, 2012 at 3:05 pm
I’m glad you got a laugh..but back to business. Its a known fact that it was a normal practice for slaves to be raped by their masters so if you wanna pretend like Jefferson was any different because of his status or because it wasn’t in your history book go ahead. If its such a love story then why do people to this day TRY to deny that he fatherd any of her kids an has black ancestors living today??? And as far as black men that rape white girls in college…rape goes on daily here there and everywhere it just so happens that on the news no matter what crime you see the suspect is a black male between 5’7 and 6’7 150lbs. Never fails. You don’t hear about the white males unless they are famous and rape 20 little boys over 15yrs ,shoot up a high school for NO reason, or scheme ppl out of millions. But scary black men get good ratings. When was the last time you saw anything good on the news?….The difference between then and now is if you get raped tonight you can go to the police..who did slaves have to go to? NOBODY…an to answere your question NO I would not own slaves for cheap labor…its immoral and I was taught better than that no matter wether black, blue green, orange a human life is a human life and its obvious you don’t feel the same…you say I’m funny but its funny, NO I take that back its SAD that in one breath you compare slave labor then to small business cheap labor today then in the next breath you claim your not agreeing with slavery…I have the option to work for you for a cheap wage no one is hand cuffing me an selling off my family membors for cheap labor today. And you wanna talk about whiney ppl..I have read 30times ppl bringing up how the north violated southerners rights…That’s the biggest joke…A southerner that owned other humans was upset that his rights where being violated…Not only is it whiney of you to flip the script but its ALSO ironic hypocritical and way too funny…looks like we humor eachother
March 12, 2012 at 5:13 pm
We are humoring each other however,I am not attempting to flip the scipt, and you just said the point I was trying to proove. YOU WERE TAUGHT THAT WAY. No, I was not attempting to gain cheap labor by using the slave trade in my small business TODAY. 1855 Then yes, I more then likley would then, if I had the means to support them. Today. IMMORAL AND WRONG. I need to find what I read to prove to you that Jefferson did father those kids and did love her. Did he do right? Hell no cause he was in office and he didn’t want anyone to know about it cause he was embarresed. THAT IS WHAT WAS WRONG. I couldnt imagine the feeling of loving someone and hiding it like it is thought he did.
We kind of took our debate else where.
Back to the flag: They attempted to establish a new government, because the original government set guidlines and offered zero support. So what happened is history… The UNITED States of America INVADED the Confederate States of America… They only wanted to ensure the Constitution was up held, nothing more, we could argue about that, but whats the point? I am a Confederate sympethizer, and your not. On that subject, we are gonna have to agree to disagree! Niether one of us will get anywhere.
I am NOT a white power activist, but I have the tatoo and the flag in my pick up window along with the US flag, but to see the Nazi flag does make me ill and to mention the two together is aggrivating to me. The south was not about hate at one time, but one action does lead to another.. not blame one race, but it does. We’ve all watched Burning in Mississippi, and it brings tears to my eyes, probably just like it does you. It is a flag and the people who fly it are strong enough to stand up for freedom! Your rights as an american are at threat everyday, and believe me if there is ever a seccesion again, us southners will come to your aid quicker than you own government will! Thats a promise… Even if you start on the wrong side.
Now here they are making amendments again, and U.S. is attempting to not support the Jews, and if that happens, where in trouble with God. I’ll be on the side of the Jews… Stars and Bars stand for freedom to me. Give me and my people Liberty or I’ll go to the chopping block and give my life even to protect you, and your right to believe what you believe, even if I don’t agree with it.
I want to back up what I tell you, and I am gonna search fo the book that I read about the love affair, he never married again only because he loved her. The same reason why men that fall in love with their mistress and try to take care of them, but wont marry them.
I look foward to your reply…
March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Tharad, I havent had a chance to look the literature up for you, but I will do that after I am done here. I just wanted to say one more thing about this issue while I was thinking about it…
When I went to High School in south Alabama there was a popular shirt that that the colored boys wore. On the the front it had a small picture of a confederate flag and underneath it said “You have your X” On the back it had a Malcom X and said “we have ours”
I personally thought it was humourus. HOWEVER
A white girl wore the same shirt that was opposite and she was suspended.
Now that makes absolulty no sense what so ever. That just goes to show that my TV network W.E.T. wont work. ha ha ha! It is a backwards world, and no matter what no one can ever change my mind only because of what I was taught by that and other simular situations like I mentioned on one of my first entries… That wasnt news, I dont watch the news… I wont say because some do know me by this name and I dont want to hurt anyone anymore than they already have been, But this country used to be right and it is getting more and more backwards, Its gonna happen again and I garauntee, the results will not be the the same.
March 14, 2012 at 1:12 am
I Believe that most of people on this website that agrees with the Confederate Flag are arrogant, you guys fail to understand the true meaning of the Flag which is HATE! You either notice it, but your pride is SO BIG that you don’t want to acknowledge it so you want to say oh well i fly it because of pride or it represents the south! You can’t take a flag that was intended for evil and make it good, its like saying well evil doesn’t mean evil anymore we changed it and it means good now. How stupid do you guys look, do you not realize how many died after the sight of that flag; Blacks, Indians,Spanish, and even Whites. That flag stands for Hate-rage of people. I as an African American believe that if we had a Flag that we flew every time we Lynched a white person in history, I’m more than positive that flag would never exist, let alone be flying high above my states capital. I would be ashamed as an American and of my people, I truly don’t understand arrogant white people, your taking the flag of Hate and trying to turn evil use into good? Do you see fully understand the remarks that you are making? Because the Sound of it is Arrogant!
March 14, 2012 at 10:28 am
Danielle, I am sure you are a sweet person, but you don’t know what you are talking about. This flag , USED PROPERLY, has never attacked anyone, The people that has flown this flag with the correct intensions have only been attacked. Now that being said, ITS NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR PEOPLE. You and your people need to grow up!
This flag represents freedom to me, and when I read something like you have posted it URKS me because here we are again minding our own business and you are coming with 10 of you people to attack me while I am strolling in the park, Well here is all my money please dont hurt me I am just taking a walk.
March 14, 2012 at 2:40 pm
All Institutions must be be relevant or they perish, no matter how successful or useful they were in the day… they must continue to meet a need or they perish. In America we have no use for ancient orders that serve no purpose, such are relegated to forgotton history quickly. The “Civil War” is over, rehashing past history is interesting but hardly relevenat. Some will not let go of the past using it as an excuse for their behavior today, many non-whites cite the era of chattel slavery, and the war as an excuse for demanding special rights and privilages, more is the piy, it is past time for intelligent people to move on. The guns of the War of Northern Aggression are silenced, the plantation is but a dim memory, chattel slavery ended 150 years ago. History can be fun and an excitng thing to study, but to blame the past and those that lived it is not the purpose of history it exists so that we might learn from it.
This remains relevent because it has moved on, it deals with the very real here and now, we honor the past by being relevent, meeting the challenges of this century and that is why we remain topical, needed and supported by patriotic Americans.
We are not trying to prove who was right concerning the War of Northern Aggression, the war is long over and is not even a subject. These issues were born after the war, it dealt with the topical issues of that day and an agenda specifically drawn up to destroy the south and it’s people with vengeful wrath.
March 20, 2012 at 11:21 pm
Justsright as you said we can go at this all day and get no where but as I said before you can do whatever you want at home or in private but if something is offensive to a whole group of people then it has no business in school, work, and government especially. I don’t believe that all that are in favor of the flag are racist but no one here can OR has been able to deny that the flag has racial ties and even you yourself have to keep on saying “when used properly” when talking about the flag…it has been used for PLENTY of wrong and been handled unproperly which has influenced the views of many people. So its not right at all for you or anyone else to say that a person is ignorant because they don’t like the flag. A gun when used properly can defend your home or put dinner on the table but don’t walk into a bank with one then say that the teller is ignorant for being uptight or edgy. As Danielle said how many people died swinging from a tree and the last thing they saw was that flag? If I see the flag and first thoughts in my mind are (kkk, rope from a tree, mississippi burning, etc.) I’m not ignorant or wrong that’s just what it is and I have reason to feel that way an if you can’t respect that then it makes you ignorant. The swastika originally didn’t stand for what a group of people turned it into today BUT it is what it is and that’s why I compare the two flags….I love my religion but I don’t think a cross should be put on top of my capitol building. We can go in circles about race, the war, who oppressed who, and everything else but at the end of the day this is about the flag. Some like it, some don’t..so does it belong in public? NO….Just like religion or anything else there is a time and a place and the capitol building is not the place for the flag, not when some of the people that pay taxes for that building to be there oppose it…period.. I don’t even understand how anyone could argue that further
March 21, 2012 at 10:48 am
Tharad, I see and understand your argument, however if we did everything like that we would have no Texas flag because it offends Mexicans as a race, and there would be no churches because they offends atheists, and last but not least quit building Fords, just because they piss me off… LOL! Seriously, I hope and pray that the true meaning of this flag can be appreciated one day and I WILL fly it high only because I agree for what it represents, not because of the racial significance that coloreds want to put on it. That is not what it stands for, not in its originality or now. So the order of my flag set up, will fly the US then Texas, then the conferate. I hope I can truly be a role model of what this flag actually is. FREEDOM, nothing more…
The true KKK is not about hate, these A-HOLES that want to run around hurting people just because of the color of skin are sick, and I do not support that, but just as you said about the gun, I should not be afraid to sit in the park after dark because it is owned by a black gang at night! I should be able to stroll freely. If I did what they did I would be in jail for hate crimes, there for, I dont go to the park, not because I’m scared, but because I will be the one that is held in ridicule because I protected myself, just like we were taught, dont start none wont be none. I will fly my flags at all cost and I think the people that believe in freedom should as well, BLACK OR WHITE. I PROMISE, I will not attack your veiws, or beliefs just because I dont agree, taxes or no taxes!
That is the freedom we have been given. I am sorry that it has been abused and not flown with dignity, I hope that will change! SOON!
I hope you and yours are well, and not having a hard time!
March 23, 2012 at 11:40 am
U know what i hate is a Southerner trying to get others to see that” my forfathers wasn’t racist, they was trying to persearve dey way of life” !! (Which was SLAVERY) holding another person against thier will do do ur OWN dirty work!! they was lazy people who didn’t want to do dey own work, and became what they always was, when we became free…WHITE TRASH!~!!!
March 23, 2012 at 5:43 pm
RT, you should stick to the subject, WEEZ AINT TAWKINS BOUT YUZ PEOPLE! AN DEY DO DO DEY OWN WORK we was just trying to keep all of America off welfare.
March 25, 2012 at 12:44 pm
That was very tacky of me, and I apoligize… I was lashing out to an insulting, an obvious ignorant comment. Like the beggining of this Blog, it just always seems to fall back on something irrelivant, it is always aggrivating to listen to people butt in on a subject and have only bits of information. This is about the flag not slavery. This flag had nothing to do with slavery or who did what… it was a battle flag for the freedom to form a government, using a militia, and take up arms when our original government seemed to fail.
April 1, 2012 at 11:29 pm
Finally, FINALLY. Someone has got it right. It is a battle flag! It was used to avoid confusion, the Stars and Bars was easily mistaken for the Stars and Stripes in the heat of battle. It is a battle flag, not racsist, not religous just as thr Skull and Crossed Bones is a ‘pirate’ flag.No one will throw insults at you for flying the Skull and Crossed Bones or are they that sensative?!!
Cheers,
Ray.
April 3, 2012 at 10:44 am
It’s funny,people don’t argue when it’s truth! They always seem to run the oppisite direction. After my last comment, I have popped in from time to time just to see.
If it’s obviously not about them and you point out how immiture thier behavior is they seem to run. So they just want to make something bad. Unfortunatly, this is what is wrong with our country. It is like taking a welfare check away from a crack whore who has only concieved in prostitution, take it away and it is just racial profiling,even though she has been arrested for prostitution and possesion, and her kids are taken away cause she left them there to go out and give her junk away so she can buy more drugs… OMG! I am guilty of my own sins and have no right to judge until I walk a mile in their shoes.
Saddest part to me is the reality of protecting EVERY ONE
April 11, 2012 at 12:57 pm
If you really understood your history, and read what real, educated, and trained historians have to say on the subject, you would know that the southern states seceeded to DEFEND the institution of slavery. Read South Carolina’s Declaration of Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Succession of South Carolina from the Federal Union from 1860. You could even look up what just about EVERY historian says about the Civil War. It was about slavery – which is a racist insitution last time I checked. The State’s Rights argument is an empty one: State’s Rights for what end? Slavery. The state’s rights viewpoint is merely a modern perspective. Every one who lived in the 1860s understood the Civil War to be a war over slavery and the extension of it into new territories. NO ONE called it a “War Between the States” until later on into the 1890s. Any real and serious historian regards people who claim it was only about state’s rights as a general-populace-thinking and very amateuric historian who thinks within the limitations of historiography.
April 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm
Oh and you could look up the history of the Confederate flag and discover that the one popularly used today wasn’t used until 1865- just weeks before Richmond fell. There were many types of Confederate flag designs during the Civil War. The flag we are used to seeing today resurged during the 1960s as a conservative and RACIST reaction to the Civil Rights movement. It was the people who feared and hated the changes going on in society who dug up the flag and started claiming it was all about “state’s rights and sovereignty.” In reality, it was a conservative and racist backlash against the changes in society that they disliked. Read more than just what you’re looking for in history and you’ll discover the truth!!!!
April 11, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Touché and kutos to you Jami, You have done SOME research on the flag…
However, I don’t feel like we are reading the same material when it comes to the Civil War… The civil war was based on an amendment! We can make things sound like they are about anything, Depending on what you read.
THIS IS AT THE HEADER OF THIS BLOG!!!
“Read more than just what you’re looking for in history and you’ll discover the truth!!!!”
UH OH DID I JUST DO THAT!!!
“The amendment went on to be ratified by Ohio, Maryland, and then Illinois before the outbreak of the Civil War halted the process of adopting the new amendment. Now ask yourself, if the Civil War was really about slavery why didn’t the Corwin Amendment, already passed by the Federal Legislature and well on its way to ratification (given the three free states which had ratified it, and the 15 slave states which would as well, only four more states would have needed to ratify it), end the conflict? The Northern states had already compromised on slavery. The truth is that the Civil War was not about slavery, it just became popular to create propaganda to make it seem so because it gave the Union an image of moral superiority.”
You know, it really doesn’t matter what it is or was all about, the south was ran by a bunch of half whitted rednecks that didnt seem to have thier heart in tit anyway…
I mean Robert E. Lee was a northener sympithizer, not not to mention the half ass job Davis did… It doesnt matter, if the south was to rise again slavery would not be even be an issue.
It stands for what is RIGHT, right now and here! not there or then. Get over it it is no longer about you… just stay in the truck I got this!!!!
April 11, 2012 at 6:52 pm
Jami my friend go back to your history books and check out pictures drawn or photographs taken during battles. The Southern Cross as we know it saw a lot of battle action well before 1865.
Cheers ,
Ray.
April 19, 2012 at 2:37 pm
to me the REBEL flag is symbolism because of the fact its historical no it is not racist but yet a memory of our nations past i wear the stars and bars proudly no disrespect to any race
April 19, 2012 at 10:33 pm
There you go! That’s what I’m talking bout. I wear the flag with pride and no one can tell me not to. The flag isnt racist. Its a battle flag. The flag use to be a battle jack. A battle jack is a square piece of cloth with and x and stars sown on it. General Beauregard decided to get a new because the battle jack looks like a surrender flag. So he picked a new person to do the flag and he picked new colors and did the same design. Th new colors? Red, blue and white. And the rectangular shape we now see today? It also got changed over the years of the war. It wasn’t and will never be racist. If you think it is, you’re an ignorante person and can’t let go of the past. (the intimation I got from my brother’s essay on the confederate flag for a school project)
April 19, 2012 at 2:38 pm
also God created all men equal
April 26, 2012 at 3:23 pm
In our wonderful democracy majority rules which goes to say that this particular flag should be placed in a museum because it does stand for racism in this country. What’s sad is that racism still exist and their are enough people that still defend it. I also understand that those who are in the national guard are sent there from all different states so all those trips are not from the south. To me eventually if we Ho at the rate we’re going going the world will end up as one color anyway and race won’t even matter soon and all of our children will laugh at the concept that we repressed ourselves for so many years over this trash. Put it in a MUSEUM along with the other harmful crap and let’s worry about pulling ourselves together for the future of this world and not for the selfish, reason of what our grandparents ended long ago. Grow up America
April 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm
Grow up Mr. Turner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 3, 2012 at 12:44 am
I’m a little late to this party, but I’m gonna speak my piece… First and foremost, the six seals in the capitol are like the six flags, and the reverse of the seal… they represent the six nations that have had sovereignty over all or part of Texas at one time or another… Spain, Mexico, France, Republic of Texas, Confederate States of America, and the United States of America. Its not praising the confederacy in any way! Its just recognizing its history. And second, just want to point out, the South weren’t the only ones with racism! After all it was NORTHERN ships who transported slaves to America… And in 1863 the Draft Riots of New York…. When the Union army drafted white men but not Black men (because they were “non citizens”) it pissed off the whites, so they began rioting. They went around the city lynching as many black men as they could get a hold of, killed a black boy on a street corner, then set fire to an orphanage killing all 233 children inside.
May 3, 2012 at 10:57 am
Oh and, at one time, there was a Stars and Bars flag with 15 stars on it… those 2 extra stars were for Maryland who attempted who secede and join the confederacy, but their legislature was disbanded by federal officials… so was unable to join the confederacy. AND the other star was for Delaware which REMAINED a SLAVE state throughout the war though they were loyal to the Union. Hmmm….. This from two Northern States…
May 3, 2012 at 5:18 pm
I do not know what is the race problem in America, because we have not such a big issue in Europe. Moreover, more and more people admit honeslty that they’re racist, we don’t believe that all races are equal, why should it be so ? Are all nations equal, are they all so wealthy, are alle the people as educated as in northern europe, are all the people as hard working as in norhtern europe. Nobody believes it, that is why tehay are such differences in welfare and wealth among the nations . So do not dream, of course tehy are racist in America and in Europe, so what ?
May 15, 2012 at 12:29 am
Do you live in the south? If not stfu, i have my own beliefs behind the flag. Im a good ole boy from way down in alabam and my views on the flag deal strictly upon southern pride and herritage. The north has always had economic prosperity and was wrong to abandon half the “union” because they thought our views was wrong on slavery. If the north cared about the union they wouldnt have so quickly abandoned our economic needs and what i think was a failed attempt to destroy the south and with enough resources these ole country boys wouldve whooped that ass for em and still will, i will always fly my rebel flag high and any nigger that has a problem should go fuck theirselfs back in africa. Then again that might be the best thing for em though, maybe they would learn to appriciate this country and stop bitchin so much. Then if theirs a yankee that has a problem tell him to voice his opinion where i grew up, his views will quickly change by that shotgun barrel. You yankees got it good just know that much and thats more than likely why you will never understand why we fly our flag high i say obsma can burn in hell with allah he aint even black, put him ona plane and his natural instinct is to crash the bitch. Obama dont know shit about our flag and will never understand it and please get real the south today still cares more about america than the north i have never seen any display of pride in what goes on over seas up north. This comment was long as fuck.
May 15, 2012 at 3:31 am
JR
I, myself, fly the confederate flag proudly. Oh, and guess what I was not born in the south and I also happen to be hispanic. OMG, I must be racist and confused since I’m hispanic, BULLSIT! People need to stop catagorizing the Rebel flag, or anyting else for the matter, that may or may of not of signified something in the past. Get over it, the past is the past and it can’t be changed. DAM!!! Is there racism in this country, yes of course, hell for that matter all over the world, but those are the dumbasses who can’t & will never be changed. Screw them and who freaking cares. In closing, for those who fly the Rebel flag, HELL YA, continue with pride. For those who don’t, well that’s OK too, but don’t sit there and judge those who do and think you know what they do it or what they are about.
May 15, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Well said
May 16, 2012 at 9:32 pm
Yeah, Well said Junior. Here in New Zealand we understand the true meaning of the flag and I fly it on my front lawn . If someone doesn’t like it that’s their problem.
The South WILL RISE AGAIN.I just hope I live to see it!!
Obama will have to go first!!
Cheers.
Ray Wilson.
May 17, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Well here is my 2 cents I have always seen the flag as a sign of strength every wants to say how racist the confederate flag is, but when you look at the state flags of AL and FL the imagery of the confederacy is still there but we don’t hear anything about that. Yes in History there was and still are select parts / people who still practice racism as we know it. I don’t know what is more offensive a flag that flew as a battle flag or the Black Panther fist that is still seen today. When you look at the quality of life there is something about southern people that make southern people care about PEOPLE period and help people regardless of color well how could this be when hurricane Katrina hit how many people of different colors responded before the federal government???? enough said the south will rise and rebuild
May 18, 2012 at 3:49 am
Dennis,
I agree, you summed it up brother.
Cheers,
Ray.
May 21, 2012 at 9:44 pm
I just moved to the “South” about 10 months ago and have found the Conf Flag raised to show southern pride as well as the ignorance. I have to say that I do understand if you had a direct line ancestor that fought and died how the Flag is held near and dear to you. We should also keep in mind that the soldiers that died fighting for the Confederate army for the most part did not own slaves they where working class men. Here is the problem that doesn’t really have any reasonable argument that can be made against it. The confederate states declared war on America and the stars and bars was the flag carried against the USA in those attacks. (today called domestic terrorism) Here is the definition of treason and unfortunately it fits. trea·son [tree-zuhn] Show IPA noun 1. the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign. 2. a violation of allegiance to one’s sovereign or to one’s state. 3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
May 22, 2012 at 1:59 am
Yes sir Jack, that is the definition of treason. Although, I believe we all forget that once upon a time the British were defeated, which made what we now proudly call the United States. Was that not treason? Maybe it was maybe it wasn’t, but I can almost bet that many wouldn’t view it as treason. Bottom line is we all live in this beautiful country, which was build by all different races and cultures and with out a doubt I truly believe that is what makes us unique and different from other countries. We probably will never agree or get along with everyone, but guess what we don’t have to. Why, because we are all different, period. I ask anyone this, wouldn’t the real ignorance lie with the person who automatically assumes that when they see the “BATTLE FLAG” that person is racist? That’s right I said the “BATTLE FLAG”. Let’s not forget the real meaning of the word assume. To make an ASSofU&ME. The real issue we should all address is how to get our country back on top, where it use to be for so very long. Not bitching about why one flies the Confederate flag and how wrong it is because it may or may not of stood for something negative. Food for thought, this is the United States of America and how would it sound if our history books taught us that the Union was in the wrong. That would definitely screw everything and everyone up, right? Finally, what has happened in the past is history and guess what, anyone or anyhting can be written down on paper.
I’m just saying.
September 8, 2012 at 12:09 am
well said
May 22, 2012 at 1:23 am
Jack,
You are certainly well read and on the ball. You have to go back to the thinking and the way things were 150 years ago. America was a young nation and experiencing growing pains as young nations do. The Southern uprising was a valid attempt to create a free and open and equal partnership in the United States.for all states,north and south.
Cheers,
Ray.
May 22, 2012 at 2:02 am
You said it Mr Ray Wilson, a young nation!!!!!
June 1, 2012 at 9:46 pm
I like both points above but they are both outside the scope of the proposed question. Was it treason? Yes it was but was it right or wrong. Right or wrong is up to the one who is fit to Judge, there is only one who is fit to judge and I am not He.
You know it is good to see the comment lets stop fighting and get back on track. I gave the small amount of cash I had on me today to an American that was not looking for money but standing in the grocery store parking lot collecting canned food for a local food bank. I was not in a big city or the poor country side. I was in a middle class area and the food bank was serving families struggling to pay mortgage payments.
We don’t need a new president, congress, or senate we just need them all when ever and who ever is in office to stop being a democrat or republican and be an American 1st. For this I pray.
June 4, 2012 at 2:50 am
You’ve got my vote Jack!!
Cheers.
Ray.
June 25, 2012 at 7:41 am
I love the flag. I also love my home in Alabama. and coming from being in the army (infantry) for ten years now i can say that i have met people from many states north,south,east and west, there are no folks in the us like folks from the south. back to the flag… i am currently in afghanistan as an army infantryman and i fly the same battle flag i flew in iraq and for years before… as far as slavery goes… almost every slave ownerin the south had a significant ammount of property and when slavery was abolished the majority of that land was given( at no cost but a small percentage of earnings from that land.. i know this bcause my great great grandfather was a slave owner had more than 1000 acres of land. my dad inherited 60 acres of land, if that tells you anything. to the guy that says the flag makes you sick at your stomach… suck it up buddy cause the flag will fly til i die and then my son will fly it. for the KKK, my great grandfather was a member, and granted it went to an extremist level but when it was started and for a long time it had good intentions and hung as many whites as it did blacks… it was nothing more than a vigilante justice because if you didnt know 911 and law enforcement wasnt very big at that time, lol especialy in the south. but honestly the kkk and all white supremicist are a bunch of fucktards just making the rest of every god loving white man from the south look bad. also, for you guys or gals in the military…when you give an equal opportunity brief to you peers and subordinates… stop associating the rebel flag with white extremist on your stupid slide show presentation….god bless… p.s. r.g. wish we could get in touch buddy, i love your quotes and comments.
June 27, 2012 at 6:17 pm
i say if we are truley united then put the confederate flag up in the corner where the blue field of stars are
July 6, 2012 at 8:03 pm
I am a Southerner. I know that has various connotations to those people not of the South and I won’t attempt to dissuade or even applaud their perception of that statement. I will say that as Southerners we share an regional, cultural and emotional bond that can be found nowhere else in the U.S. We are black, white, red, yellow and our strength is that we are united as a people. We are Southerners. Our heritage and beliefs are what define us and as such set us apart from others. We are proud of our culture and our past, proud of what it means to be from the South.
I have no ill will toward those others from the North, East or West, I don’t seek to change their way or things they value. I would hope they in turn would do the same for us. I’m sure that they are proud of their heritage as I am of mine
The Confederate flag is part of that Southern heritage, and the perception of it’s meaning can debated till the end of time. I, myself do not see it as a symbol of hate, but that’s my opinion. Others see it differently, that’s their opinion.
I say let us Southerners be. Live your life in your lands and be well. As oft has been said ” All we ask is that you let us be.”
July 7, 2012 at 12:20 am
ET You are a legend, and so right.History is history, you cannot change it Live with it , respect it and put it where it should be …………..in history! Leave it for our children and their children to study in years to come.
We cannot change what has already happened.
God bless.
Ray Wilson.
July 7, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Thank you Ray for your kind words.
History is a mirror reflecting who we are, showing the good and the bad. How one acknowledges or disbelieves that reflection is of personal choice. Some are realists, smiling back in the mirror, reflecting on memories of what was. Others, like an old lady reach for the make up to hide away the truth before them. So it is with Civil War history, some believers, some deceivers.
It is heartening to hear our flag gives hope to you and yours so far away. Though I am a patriot and render my loyalty to the US flag, my heart and spirit do love that battle flag of the South. Yes my eyes do well with tears as Dixie is played. Yes, tears of pride and sorrow for my ancestors are shed for flag and song. It could not be any other way for me.
Cheers to our brothers down under in New Zealand, Ray!
July 7, 2012 at 8:25 pm
The notion that the South was treasonous is based upon the false notion that it was a “Civil War”. In a civil are two parties seek control of the central government. The South (God bless them) only sought to divorse itself from a tyrannical government who’s tax policies took from the South to benefit the North. This is a war of separation or independence not civil war
If the declaration of independance was adequate reason to separate from Great Britian, and the 10th Amendment empowered State rights, the how was Lincoln’s invasion of Southern ports like Charston an act of treason?
The fact is that the treason was in Alexander Hamilton, Henry Clay, Andrew Jackson, Whig party destruction of the Constitutional protections proveded to the people and to the States
July 8, 2012 at 3:24 am
It’s like this, issues like this are issues of the heart. If you say it out l oud to yourself and it does’nt feel right or sound right then it isn’t right! The Southern States wanted equality and it wasn’t going to happen.They struck for equality the only way that was going to bring attention to their cause…..CIVIL WAR!!!!!
Dwell on that folks!!!!!
Cheers,
Ray.
July 25, 2012 at 11:58 pm
4/29/1861
Finally a great party was organized for the purpose of obtaining the administration of the Government, with the avowed object of using its power for the total exclusion of the slave States from all participation in the benefits of the public domain acquired by all the States in common, whether by conquest or purchase; of surrounding them entirely by States in which slavery should be prohibited; of thus rendering the property in slaves so insecure as to be comparatively worthless, and thereby annihilating in effect property worth thousands of millions of dollars. This party, thus organized, succeeded in the month of November last in the election of its candidate for the Presidency of the United States.
– Jefferson Davis
Davis was pretty clear in several speeches and letters that the south was seceding due to the election of Lincoln, who had a very clear agenda of containing slavery to only those states that allowed it at the time of his election. A closer inspection of the Corwin amendment would show that it never once uses the word “slave”. It was written with the intent of being open to interpretation by the courts at a later date. Also, it did nothing to address the spread of slavery, which the slave owning states believed was necessary. The underground railroad helped slaves escape to free states, and the south was already losing a war of attrition. The notion that the Confederacy was some noble concept is nothing more than propaganda. The election of a man such as Davis, who is quoted often about his belief in the inferiority of the African race, and it’s only purpose being that of slavery, is pretty blatant. You can’t marginalize how important slavery was to the south by focusing solely on minor points of contention.
July 26, 2012 at 1:51 am
You should read “The South was Right!” By: James Ronald Kennedy & Walter Donald Kennedy. This book gives a lot of information of the myths that have become our standard now, and also shows the view of President Jefferson Davis, C.S.A. on how unlike Gen. R.E. Lee, Davis wanted a gradual loss of slavery to teach the slaves to become to the world of “freedom”. Lee wanted to end it right away. The book also shows how the northern states granted freedom to its slave population. No law was ever passed in the North that granted freedom to a person already in slavery. Such as in New Jersey at the time, the slave would have to be born after 1804, and be 21 years old to be free.
You might want to read into the slavery in the South and North before making statements about it. In 1860, there were 5.3 million whites in the South, approximately 6% (300,00 approx.) were slave holders, and their slaves were sold to them by Northerners. Just to clarify for you.
You might also want to read the “U.S. Doc: The Slave Narratives” it’ll show the views of the slaves from both sides.
“I was fed just like I was one of the [master’s] children. The even done put me to bed with them. You see, this discrimination on color wasn’t as bad then as it is now. They handled you as a slave but didn’t discriminate against you on account of color like they do now. In slavery times, a poor white man was worse off than a n—-r.”
-Elija Henry Hopkins, Little Rock, AR (Former Slave)
September 18, 2012 at 9:31 pm
You must also be aware of Lincoln’s thoughts on the black race. If not I suggest you read his letters and in reguards to what he said in a speech about how to keep the union, or I should say what he would do to keep the union. Along with his plans had he lived, of repatriation of the slaves to Africa. How do you think the country of Liberia was started.
July 26, 2012 at 12:52 pm
Forever live Confederate against the unjust and the liars.
Honor, Truth, Loyalty forever!!!
July 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Just to have the 400th comment also! Yay!
August 7, 2012 at 11:39 am
look to all of you who think it is treason like that dumbass said in that artical i guess he dont have a clue what the definition is of a rebel. it is some one who stands up for what they belive in someone who wont take the governments shit and will live there life the way the want to,but of course you would support what that dumbass president said since you support him what was his name again ODUMBASS I MEAN OBAMA.. i honestly belive if the south would have won we would of had it made, and this is comeing from someone who was born and raised in chicago ill so get real stupid
August 12, 2012 at 4:36 am
It is the Battle flag of Northern Virginia, NOT the Confederate or Rebel flag.
The South was too ignorant to design a flag that could be used on the battle field — at one time using a 75% WHITE flag that was constantly confused with surrendering — the first flag was to close to the USA flag and also confused the South. Really? Could not design a flag, but think they can somehow survive on their own?
So, when you fly your Rebel flag, remember that it is the Battle flag of Northern Virginia you are so attached to…and that most who died in the war are NOT represented by that flag.
Please take the time to research the real flags of the CSA and the complete idiotic history of how they fucked it up over and over until finally settling on the BATTLE FLAG OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA.
Add to all this that Northern Virginia is the complete opposite of the South and keep flying that flag of yours high, while you have no idea of the real history behind it…
August 20, 2012 at 1:55 am
Interesting theory my man, but nah…..not buying it. Keep tking those DUMB PILLS pal ,they are working a treat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers.
Ray.
August 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Hey Ray,
Now hold on a minute. I could be wrong, but I think writer 402 was trying to say something………
Hey writer 402, don’t let Ray brow beat you. You just do the best you can and we’ll figure it out.
August 20, 2012 at 6:06 pm
ET, You’re right.I did come on a bit rough. I didn’t mean to brow beat anyone.We are all analysing events that took place 150 yrs ago and when records weren’t as accurate as they are today. My belief is the theory that the Southern Cross was adopted as a battle flag to identify the Confederate Forces in battle ,the thirteen stars representing the thirteen states supporting the Confederacy. States who took part in the split from the Union may have decided to embrace the emblem into their new state flags………your guess is as good as mine. What came first—-the chicken or the egg!
Cheers,
Ray.
August 24, 2012 at 5:46 pm
Hey Ray,
Thank you for the correction. Surely any intelligent person would be able recognize the absolute brilliance of writer 402. My God, the years of pain staking research he must have spent, the personnel sacrifice. The hardships he endured. And now, he has come from the drudgery of books with a vengeful purpose. To clarify the confederate flags history. He has, by his few simple words, changed me. I no longer see the confederate flag as I did before, I now see it as the flag of Northern Virginia. THE FLAG OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA! How could I have been so blind all those years! How could I have known? Hopefully writer 402 will enlighten and enthrall us with more poignant facts.
August 27, 2012 at 1:02 pm
Wow, what a lot of responses…shows this is STILL an emotionally charged issue. In general, I appreciate your post…there is an error, though. You write: “The Confederate flag represents a nation which declared open war on the United States and attempted to do her harm.”
The South never declared war on the US nor was the intent to ever do harm. In fact, it is very easy to find historical support of the “all we want to do is be left alone” statement which represents the southern SECESSION from the US Government. Additionally, Lee was PRESSED to invade the North and did NOT wish to do so because–to many of the time–it was a defensive war and NOT an aggressive one.
August 29, 2012 at 10:42 pm
In regards to JIM C’s comment – This is off the subject a bit, but, to clarify, in your opinion JIM if a persons spelling is bad then they are either an immigrant or an idiot and that somehow renders their opinion less valid. Is that about right? Your a JACKASS!
September 7, 2012 at 11:51 pm
I started looking for info on this flag to educate myself found more than I thought I am from IDAHO a proud american I dont like Obama and our government is shit but we as american people have goten lazy we gave the power away have been for a long time the diffrance now is the people in power are cocky, greedy and will just keep taking more as long as WE THE PEOPLE let them.
September 8, 2012 at 12:04 am
I forgot to mention I have bolth flags on my living room wall I look at it as a qestion of things to come the rest is dust in the wind part of the problem is we blind our selfs with the dumb shit. Alot of bad things have happened for what ever reason why do we have such a hard time learning from the historical mistakes.
September 8, 2012 at 2:32 pm
I’m Hispanic and I have all love and faith in the land of Dixie. The Battle Flag don’t mean racism. For some sure, they’re stuck ol’ ways. But for fellas like me, it stands for states rights. The rights of the people and not the bloated government that believes we work for them. Any person that wants to call me racist or what have, y’all can just go jump in front of truck.
September 18, 2012 at 9:15 pm
I agree that the flag, is not a racist symbol. Where you and I part ways. Treasonable ? Flying the battle flag or the Confederate national flag on state government property is no way Treason.
The Confederacy and the states it was comprised of never invaded the north with the on set of hostilities. Had the south wanted to actually do harm to the union at the first battle of bull run / manasses the Confederate army would have just followed the retreating army of the republic
into Washington DC and captured or destroyed the U.S. government. The Confederate states army met the army of the republic in Virginia and the first battle of the war was joined.
It is legal at that time to secede. Now after secession the union forces were given reasonable time to remove all forces from a sovereign seperate nation. It was in responce to Lincoln calling up volunteers for service and then
sending this army south into this new sovereign
nation that caused the escalation into war. This is one of the reasons in I believe in 1921 Congress officially recognized the war ,as the
War Between the States, not the civil war. The states and people in the south were not in rebellion against their central government. Being. An old Marine and having been working on my families ancestry, I am proud of all my ancestors and during that period of our great nations history I had ancestors on both sides. They all served their country with honor. No monuments or flags should ever be taken down. People / Americans should look deeper into their history. They should read more than the propaganda of not only that era but of the same of today about that era. I believe that war defined America. Unfortunately over 600,000 Americans and at least 3 million horses and
mules died during the war, but for the most part we over came our differences and progressed as
a society and a nation. An Englishman that was
touring the country during that era made a
profound statement ” if the Union and
Confederacy would come together America, would be a force unstoppable the world over”.
No sir you are very misguided making the statement that flying the battle flag on state government property is treason. It is not by any stretch of the imagination. It does honor all that served their nation, it honors all that served the blacks, hispanics and anyone else that served the Confederacy during the war. It is a source of regional pride. Dr. Martin Luther King wrote and spoke about the flag, about embracing it. That flag can mean diffrent things to diffrent people. Treasonous for displaying a part of our countries history it is not. I am in no way mad. I am glad you’re not completely ignorant of the facts, I do ask that if you’re going to make statements on our countries history, please do more research and do not let personal prejudices or those of others or politics be part of your statement.
Semper Fi!
God,Country and Corps
September 19, 2012 at 1:02 am
You’re on to it Terry. You’ve got it in one! Like the fight for Independence the Civil War was a very important period in US history.Don’t shove it away in the dark halls of history – bring it out into the sunlight and embrace it as an element that has helped make the USA what it is today!
Cheers,
Ray.
September 20, 2012 at 9:34 am
I believe in the confederate flag it is a heritage not hate. i grew up in west virginis with a confederate family. so people can say all they want on how it is racistbut it isnt if you think it is you need a GOD DAMN HISROY LESSON.
September 22, 2012 at 1:03 am
I was raised in South Carolina and i never heard any1 talk about skin color! I live in ohio now and i’ve got a bunch a peaple in my nieghborhood who are from the south and were all pround of it! up here nobody cares about the confederate flag ive got 1 in my room! but i hear back down south its illegel to have a confederate flag?
October 2, 2012 at 9:17 am
Hey I’m in nc and no as of now it’s not illegal but they’ve been tryin to pass it as a hate law but I’ve got 3 and anybody that don’t like cant kiss my country ass. Haha
September 24, 2012 at 2:00 am
If that is true that is a sad fact. Come on you narrow-minded boffins,…….The ‘Rebel Flag’ is American history,right or wrong, good or bad. Give the young minds coming through the opportunity to learn a chapter of US history and make their own judgment.That conflict 150 years ago cost 600,000 good American lives………..was it for nothing?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Ray.
October 2, 2012 at 9:13 am
I’m very glad I found this link I’ve been trying to explain this to people my whole life I even had to debate my college American history teacher about it and I shut her down as a result she failed me in the class lol the flag isn’t racist it’s a sign of brotherhood and loyalty to your community people can’t say what they want but the south is one of few places in the country where a person will give the shirt off their backs for someone they’ve never met. I wouldn’t want it any other way.
October 7, 2012 at 3:27 am
[…] and intellectually challenged rationalizations regarding whether it should be flown or not (see here, including—in fact, especially—the comments, for a fairly representative discussion). And […]
October 18, 2012 at 10:23 pm
The confederate flag to me…puts the government in its place reminding them that its the people who make up this nation and are the boss…if you argue its a sign of treason than turning the American flag upside down is too and if we as a nation did that then we the people would be committing treason.
November 8, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Suck a cock obama, i fly it on my porch. And fuck all you northren pussys.
November 12, 2012 at 11:42 pm
It’s always interesting to see what others have to say. I’d like to respond to comment 402 regarding the Battle Flag and Northern Virginia. You know what the greatest part of history is? The vast array of resources available to read, but remember one needs to read as much as they can to really learn and understand what they are reading. The Battle Flag was designed to stop confusion by both armies due to the similarity between the flags of the Union and Confederacy. Now there is some truth about what you were saying about Northern Virginia and the flag. What you failed to include was that the Battle Flag was first used by the Army of Northern Virginia, followed by the other armies. You were talking about the Battle Flag, right? As for the white flag you mentioned, I believe you were talking about the 2nd National flag which had the Battle flag in the upper left corner on white background.
On a different note, to err is human. It’s easy for us to stereotype and think we know someone based on how they look, dress, etc.and we know that is not always the case. I know I’ve been guilty of it. Not sure if ya’ll remember who I am, but I was not born nor have I lived in the south. I’m from Arizona and also Hispanic, but I embrace the Battle/Confederate Flag. I have a sticker of the flag on the back window of my truck which reads, “If My Sticker Offends You, Go Back And Read Your History”. I had someone comment about the sticker and was asked why I had it and if I was racist. My response was, “ARE YOU KIDDING ME? REALLY! DID YOU NOT SEE WHAT COLOR MY SKIN IS? TELL YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD DO WHAT THE STICKER SAYS AND GO BACK AND READ YOUR HISTORY”.
This goes out to everyone out there. We can not undo what has already been done, so let’s embrace this country and it’s wonderful history.
November 14, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Fuck all of you Assholes who think that it should be taken away, banned, burned, ‘put in a musem’ or anything else. I AM PROUD TO BE A SOUTHERNER, I fly the Confederate Flag on my truck, porch, flag pole, and in my room, but I also fly the American Flag on my truck, porch, flag pole and room. Aint no one taking away my Pride or my Flag.
November 14, 2012 at 8:55 pm
May I make a request? Please remember our heritage, We Southerners are an honorable people, bound by hospitality and a code of decency. Let’s try to not sullen that heritage with vulgar language and talk that lessens us in the eyes of yankees. Be above the them, you are representing the South. Make your point(s) with pride, passion and potency.
Thanks
April 23, 2013 at 9:51 pm
What I think is more interesting than the conversation about the flag, are the attitudes on here. Why do you think southerners need to “be above” the northerners? Do southerners have an inferiority complex? I do agree with you, by the way, about the language. I keep reading comments from Southerners that go on and on and on about how they are soooo much more polite, caring, and moral than northerners and they have sooooo many more values and more pride. Then in the next sentence they spew obscenities at northerners and threaten violence. Just seems contradictory. Then they wonder why the few northerners who comment don’t have anything nice to say.
Also, why do southerners on here think they are better than northerners? Why do southerners think they are the only people who can be kind and generous? And that all southerners hold these values, while no northerners do? I know many people who value heritage, family, helping others, etc, and they are from all over, definitely not just from the south. Also, I have met a lot of jerks and they’re not all from the north. There really is nothing special about Southerners, or Northerners for that matter. I’ve lived in several different parts of the US, and there are definitely cultural and regional differences, but none that would make one group of people better than others. For example, I noticed that in Baltimore where I currently live, the city folk love, love, love block parties, festivals, parades, etc. In more rural areas that I have lived, it was bonfire parties and town fairs. And in Florida it was hanging out in the beach or fishing on the piers. These are just examples of people getting together in different ways. My point is, Southerners aren’t the only ones with traditions or values. And they aren’t better than anyone else.
August 7, 2013 at 6:53 pm
Hello Bizarro. I think you may be reading too much into a simple request for civility from Southerners. I never inferred that we were better in any way than yankees. My statement “to be above them” relates merely to a having a more honorable response when communicating in these pages (as well as anywhere else). Shouldn’t all men and women from any part of the world strive to do the same? Why would anyone do less?
I don’t dispute that good and moral folks are found through out this hemisphere, so upon this we agree and from your response it seems that these traits are part of you as well.
This thread, as well as any discussion about the Civil war, is bound to bring out the many convictions and divisions we still have about every conceivable aspect of that war. Some folks express this with logic, some with anger and obscenities, but sadly for most folks they spew the text book version of this tragedy without realizing how they’ve been manipulated to believe in a carefully arranged revisionist history created by the victors of that war. Some will find that offensive, but I tell you that t one time I believed the Greatest Fable Ever Told at one time too. That was long ago and since then my eyes still continue to be opened. If you’re happy with this myth, than be well, however the truth is out there for those who wish to really understand why the South seceded. Learn that and the truth of why Southerners fought for and still today see that flag as a symbol of a noble cause will be made apparent.
November 17, 2012 at 3:00 am
Nicely said E.T. I agree wholeheartedly. To all those who are still questioning the true meaning of the Confederate Flag or Battle Flag, I would like to share the following:
“Either way one looks at it, the flying of the Confederate Flag is still freedom of speech, and in regards to that, the great poet Voltaire once wrote, ” I do not agree with what you say, but i will defend to the death your rights to say it.” This is one of the earliest defenses of that freedom, which every citizen of the United States is granted. It is the right of the people to be able to express their beliefs. even if misunderstood, as the Confederate Flag almost always is.
The American Flag also falls under this category, as this country, when represented by the Stars and Stripes, has fought numerous unpopular wars including one in Vietnam and another in the Middle East. But people do not look at the politics when patriotically flying the American Flag, because it represents the thousands of soldiers who gave their lives to keep it. The same could be said of the Confederate Flag. Why does it not deserve the same respect?” Writen by Greg Caggian
GOD LOVE AND BLESS THIS COUNTRY AND ALL WHO LIVE HERE!!
November 17, 2012 at 7:07 pm
Amen !!!
November 17, 2012 at 6:56 pm
If what you argue is true, Being Hawaiian, the American flag should not be allowed to fly in Hawaii. Because it represents a time that led to the loss of their land, precious lives and culture. It has become a sad reminder to the Hawaiian Elders of a people who weren’t even allowed to vote on the statehood of Hawai in 1959. But then that’s another story. A story that led to The Hawaiian culture and flag being replaced by the American culture and flag, untill recently.
And even with all the differences I wouldn’t want to live any where else. And I will fly the American Flag, in honor of those who gave all including My Hawaiian People, so I may have a better quality of life, one that they only dreamed of. I know many people who fly the Confederate Flag in their yard. They are not racist. They are proud of their Southern Cooking, which I deffinately love !!! They are proud of their daily sacrifices and close family ties. They take pride in treating their friends as one would family, they are true patriots. And right above that rebel Flag Flies The Red White And Blue. The Stars and Stripes! The American Flag. And not just on the 4th of July… All year around.
In short, we may not agree with some or even many of the efforts in which our Ancestors chose to build this Great Country. Simply creating a confederate flag that represents their valiant efforts to “their cause”. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe that is “Racial” or “Treasonl”. The flag was here before the war. But the flag it self was created under the same pretense as any flag. In Honor of their accomplishments, dissapointments and those who stood on common ground, towards a common goal.
May 17, 2019 at 5:19 am
Well said.
November 25, 2012 at 11:44 pm
Well done folks, we are all on the same page. The Southern Cross is NOT RACIST,NOT RELIGIOUS, NOT SEXIST AND IS AN IMPORTANT EPISODE IN AMERICAN HISTORY AND SHOULD BE EMBRACED FOR WHAT IT IS ………..AMERICAN HISTORY!!!!!!
February 2, 2013 at 10:50 am
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February 11, 2013 at 2:05 pm
Ive seen some comments on here referring to that of the confederate battle flag and that of treason. the word treason in America has been so twisted. I love this country, i love the people, and the constitution! Treason has a meaning of “the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign.” our Constitution clearly states that “We The People are the ones in charge” the Government officials are the ones we chose to represent us. The Constitution clearly states that The people have more rights than the government. so in key terms from the constitution and the definition of Treason how can We The People overthrow ourselves? We cant!
but The Government can do clearly that. so who is the real treasonous one here?
March 1, 2013 at 8:42 pm
midwesterner you should be be proud. of all your great countrys heritage including southern heritage …..they are a proud people down south ….so why do you deny. your own history ….
March 3, 2013 at 3:19 am
Long live people’s rights,long live state’s rights. Do not forget history,do not forget what has happened, it cannot be changed or discarded, it happened and brought us to where we are today. 600,000 were spent fighting the Civil War to bring the USA to be what it is today.Respect the fallen and give the memory and history it’s rightful place in the history of this nation.
Cheers,
Ray.
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April 10, 2013 at 9:05 am
‘The truth is that the Civil War was not about slavery…’ That’s a little bit like saying the WWII wasn’t about the murder of 6 million Jews in concentration camps. No, it wasn’t, specifically, but they are forever linked.
And you don’t at all touch on the reason as to why a President who makes a convoluted quote about the ‘Corwin Amendment’ (an amendment, he mentioned he had not actually seen yet) later writes the Emancipation Proclamation. One certainly couldn’t be in favor of both. The fact that slaves in WV and MD weren’t freed would certainly, going forward, been an untenable situation (and it actually was, since we obviously don’t have slaves in those states today).
No one should be offended, actually, by those who fly the “Battle Flag of Northern Virginia”. If anything, it ought to be a source of amusement. It is, after all, the loser’s flag. It raises the question: “so what are they celebrating or recognizing by flying that flag, anyway? That a bunch of states, who tried to uphold their own local laws legalizing slavery and brutalizing certain people, not recognized as people, got their asses kicked?”
People can fly it all they wan’t. They can’t change the history it represents.
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June 2, 2013 at 1:22 pm
The academic conses is that slavery was the leading (not ‘only’) cause of the Civil War. If anyone has evidence to the contrary they should submit their findings to a peer reviewed publication and collect their Nobel Prize.
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November 9, 2013 at 11:27 am
Obama needs to keep his mouth shut. He done more damage than the war between the states. If any state should want to fly the stars and bars it should be left up to them. No one else. 99.9% of blacks could not tell u which southern states fought in the war. You are wrong in some of your thinking. But you are free to speak ur mind. Thanks for the info.
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February 20, 2014 at 7:14 pm
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April 19, 2014 at 8:21 pm
i think the confederate (rebel) flag is not a symbol of racisim its a sign of the southern haritage and honestly all yall think its ok to say the rebel flag is racist well yall need a trip to the south the real south were we worship god and the flag and before yall say something go do some research there is not one thang racist about the flag the BARS and STARS in my mind are one of the best flags out there i think some northern states should fly the flag thats all i have to say sorry if i upset someone but its the truth
June 19, 2014 at 6:07 pm
I’m pretty sure the flag has some completely different meaning in wales or the Uk cuz I know it’s on the walls in some schools in Wales (I saw it on the wall inside a Welsh bilingual public school in a BBC documentary)
I have no idea why it’s flown but it is
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April 1, 2015 at 1:49 pm
How do you feel about the American flag that was flown while committing genocide against the Native Americans?
May 25, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Fuck you. Treason is obma. That treacherous fuck epitomizes treason. Remember the black fucker SWEARING to uphold the CONSTITUTION? He has done everything he can to fucking destroy this nation and i say fly the CONFEDERATE BANNER HIGH. Also the stars and stripes. Only as long as obmoo is anything besides a damn shoeshine BOY, it should fly UPSIDE DOWN!!!!!
June 5, 2015 at 10:09 am
Flying the Confederate flag is not treason. What a completely asinine statement to make considering that you apparently understand the history behind it. The Southern States which left the Union and formed the Confederacy did so legally and properly having every right to do so. When such a thing happens to a married couple we call it a divorce. Oddly enough I don’t see very many people who try and put down the South speak against the concept of divorce, but it is the same principle writ large. The Confederacy did not hurt the United States, but the United States did hurt the Confederacy by attacking, invading, and forcibly annexing those States to the Union.
The American Declaration of Independence spells out our American political principles the primary of which should be said to be that “government governs by the consent of the governed.” It is the right of the people to alter or abolish any government that becomes destructive towards the people. The government of the United States prior to the break and the War of Northern Aggression had become more and more destructive and hostile towards the interests and rights of the South. The South eventually in response, as no other measure tried worked to fix the problems involved, made the choice to leave the Union, form a new nation, and thereby protect its rights and interests in this way. The South acted with dignity and honor but was eventually crushed by a more powerful country. Might does not make right now or then. The Confederate flag should be honored and respected and it should certainly be flown over government buildings and schools of those Southern States at least till such time as the people from those States make the free choice to rejoin the Union instead of being made to at the point of a gun barrel.
June 23, 2015 at 8:45 pm
Slavery started under the flag of the United States. If anything to do with the Civil War South is racist, then by the same definition the U.S. flag is a racist symbol.
All signers of the Constitution who owned slaves need to be blotted from history books, their images taken down, their memory erased. All U.S. Presidents, Congressmen, and Senators who owned slaves need to be blotted from history books, images removed wherever the images are, never to be spoken of ever again in this country. Their statues, images on money, paintings, etc. need to be vanished from ever being seen again, or spoken of. They were racists and their images are symbols of racism. If anything southern is racist then this country needs to get rid of anything and everything associated with racism. Yep, get rid of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc. Even the U.S. flag!
See how stupid political correctness run amok is! Hypocrisy!
The first Black slave owner was a Black man!!!!!!!
It is against the law for the U.S. flag to be altered in any way. So why are Blacks not being arrested for bastardizing the U.S. flag by changing the colors to red, black, and green which are African nation colors. Why is that not racism!? They are breaking the law. Why can Black politicians call Baltimore an African city and not be considered racist!?
Oh, that’s right, if Blacks can’t get their way they loot, burn, riot, assault Whites, etc.
June 23, 2015 at 8:56 pm
Another thing…….the Swastika was a symbol used by many cultures the world over. Native American tribes used the Swastika. It represented peace, unity, love. It is an ancient symbol.
Hitler used it for his symbol of war and power. That does not change the meaning of the Swastika. That does not mean that whomever displays the Swastika is a Jew hater and loves Nazis.
People have got to stop being stupid about symbols. And political correctness.
June 24, 2015 at 6:25 pm
The bottom line is the states that flies the confederate flag wanted to keep slaves a slave. They did not want people to be free to make their own decisions, own their own land and free to travel. There is one flag the stars and stripes that represent freedom for everyone. The United States is the land of the “FREE”.
June 28, 2015 at 10:28 am
The confederate flag is not only a symbol of racism and hate, it’s a symbol of an enemy combatant that attacked the U.S.
July 4, 2015 at 10:41 pm
The confederate flag is still an important piece of American history, to say to destroy or get rid of the confederate flag is to say you reject learning a piece of that history. To say something is politically correct as well, let me enlighten you on who first said that, it was Hitler in the book Mein Kampf. Does that mean we should stop saying that word? No, just be careful when you try and claim something is politically correct especially with racism.
July 9, 2015 at 12:06 pm
I applaud you. Treason, and relegated to a museum. enough said.
Thank you for saying it.
July 10, 2015 at 9:30 pm
KKK – see them stirring again in the sliver they have of Ireland. Wanting to
kill RCs. Crazy loons.
As its designer waxed poetic:
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man (proddy) over the inferior(irish race) or colored race ; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.
Did you know that in the 1800’s about 75% of the South were either Scotch or Scotch-Irish? The Confederate Battle Flag is based upon the national flag of Scotland. The national flag of Scotland is the cross of Saint Andrew and the cross of Saint Andrew is a symbol of the Christian faith and the heritage of the Celtic race. In fact, another name for the Confederate Battle Flag is the Southern Cross.
Their Mother, Saxon England, Planted them in Ireland, an effort to tame the natives once and for all. Doing so to good effect, they now have a ready available resource to draw from. The dispossesed souls in time helped populate lands garnered by her. John Bull armies for her many conquest were Irish natives. Some of the living ,were also drawn for shipment to procreate with black slaves and naturally the need for more workers grew as would be natural to populate their ever rapacious grabbing of lands.
July 12, 2015 at 1:54 am
Kid Rock can use the flag to wipe the fecese from his stinky ass him and his mother . Those two fox new bitches can use the conferderate flag to stuff their blessing vagina with the next time they need a rag .
July 20, 2015 at 10:04 am
Stop desecrating the Confeederate flag by puting it on the federals land or next to its flag under which thousands of Native Americams were mercilessly massacred — men , women and children! Talk about HATE!
July 22, 2015 at 6:44 am
anyone who has spent any time in the south knows that many of them are still bitter over a war that to this day still divides. in a comic store—” how many are here from the north? how many here are from the south” well we got ‘cha out numbered tonight!’ to dinner theater north/south on horses where the “north” side clearly wins in points, but they declare the “southern” side the “victors” and on and on. if you don’t see it, and hear it then you are deliberately blinding yourself to it. you are right about one thing. the confederate flag isn’t JUST racist. it is meant to be screw you, in your face you damn yankees. bet ‘cha couldn’t do it again! what i want is a yankee pride flag that I can put in my yard and fly on my pick-up truck and all the other stupid places i can put one up, ’cause I’m a damn yankee and proud of it. maybe the north should show some “yankee” pride and honor OUR ancestors that gave THEIR lives to end the practice of buying human beings like animals because that is the biggest thing they FELT they were fighting for.Im sure there are many in germany that feel the same way but so far they haven’t started flying the nazi flag above govt. buildings. they aren’t that stupid.
July 28, 2015 at 9:29 pm
What this flag (stars and bars) really had to do with a banking dispute between the north’s banking institutions and their regulators and he south’s up and coming banking institutions. The south’s big commodity at the time cotton, was being sold around the world creating a robust gold flow, If ranked as an independent nation, it would have been the fourth richest country of the world in 1860. Forevermore, if the war wasn’t started the south would have overtime took control the north’s banking systems and restructured the financial outcome of this great union.
August 10, 2015 at 5:50 pm
As far as I am concerned I believe that the Christian Flag, American Flag, and
the Confederate Flag are symbols of freedom and liberty for all who live in America. No government has the right to tell anyone to remove them from anywhere. When I heard that the Confederate Flag was being removed from public buildings in the South I was outraged because I felt that it was an attack on the people of the South. The Southerners have the right to show pride in their heritage. Does anyone realize that there are those who want to see all three flags taken down as a means to destroy America and make Christianity a crime? Obama obviously wants do destroy America and criminalize our Christian Faith. We, as Americans need to stick together in
fighting for our freedom, friends, families, and our country. I believe that a Second American Civil War is not far in coming and Obama intends to start it.
Not only that but he is pro New World Order as well.
October 16, 2015 at 2:22 pm
Family Guy The Quest For Stuff Hack Cheat Tool options include Limitless Coins
and Clams.
October 23, 2015 at 2:11 pm
From Chocolate Grind Tale to Percolate Witch Tale, their activities reach an amount of title acknowledgement
that many builders just imagine.
April 11, 2016 at 11:58 am
Most of what you’ve said I agree with, except the part where you say the south “declared open war on the union”. That’s kinda far fetched seeing as the north was occupying the south. You can’t occupy your own country and say you’re being friendly. Everyone thinks Lincoln was a great president, I personally think he’s as bad or worse than Obama. To declare war on your own country, that’s not great, that’s a tyrant.
August 20, 2017 at 10:28 pm
[…] https://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/the-true-meaning-of-the-confederate-flag/ […]
May 23, 2019 at 10:49 am
My understanding the civil war was about forming a new government the Confederate flag is not racist the Confederate flag is not treasonous it is a Southern heritage people should let the Confederate flag let it be let it fly. When this country was first founded this was a country of Confederacy forming a new government is the reason of the civil war the South did not want the new government to let the government have more control let the people control the government that’s what the Confederate Southern United Stat wanted. I am a truck driver I have Confederate flag mud flaps on my truck to trailer I have my Confederate mud flaps for the Southern pride the Southern heritage.
July 27, 2023 at 2:32 am
The Confederate fight should be bowed down to! You guys that don’t like it f*** you all you mother f****** you piece of s*** mother f****** pussies. Let’s tear down the f****** statues like a piece of s*** mother f***** you are and erase our f****** history you dumb m************ f*** all you b**** mother f****** Democrat pieces of s***