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	<title>Comments on: Bad to Worse: America&#8217;s Options on Iran, Part II: Invading Iran</title>
	<atom:link href="http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-iran/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-iran/</link>
	<description>Sermo humanus per verba irata</description>
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		<title>By: Real Indian</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-iran/#comment-11550</link>
		<dc:creator>Real Indian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/?p=343#comment-11550</guid>
		<description>I have a novel idea. We relied on the Sunny powers, Egypt, Saudi and Pakistanis last few decades. In return, we got 911 and a nuclear Pakistan that led to a nuclear Iran.

Let us change the game plan. Let us get Israel on board and offer Iran a deal. A no war pact, a nuclear umberella just like Japan and total non-interference. In return, Iran abandons Nuke plan, allows permanant US/NATO base, gives up army like Japan, gives up terrorism. Most importantly, lets us take out Pakistani nuckes either by giving US forces the platform to attack Pakistan or covert denuking Pakistan. 

Pakistani nukes are financed by the Saudis and technology transfer from the Chinese. Eversince, Pakistan made their first nuke they started experiencing delusions of grandeur. They think they are the protectors of Islam by virtue of possession of what they proudly call &#039;Islamic Bomb&#039;. The evidence for this: 
1. Al Queda was created by Pakistani army/ISI intelligence agency right at the time they made their nukes.

Real Al queda is Pakistani army and their Intelligence agency (ISI). 

2. They proliferated nuke technology to anti-western dictators in muslim world (except N.Korea where it was in exchange for missile tech). Here, you can see their agenda to destroy infidels.


You clean up Pakistan or you face Pakistani nuclear blackmail and later IRAN will copy the Pakistani playbook to bring down Israel and West just like Pakistan blackmails India. They got away with Mumbai attacks (2006, 2007 and 2008), Parliament attack (2001), Indian embassy attack in Afghanistan (2008) and many more attacks.

I may be biased being Indian, but there is no denying the facts that Pakistan is the epicenter of terrorism, nuclear proliferation and islamic fundamentalism.

Next nuclear attack, dirty bomb or even World War will be initiated by Pakistan. All roads lead to Pakistan. Denuke them now when they are vulnerable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a novel idea. We relied on the Sunny powers, Egypt, Saudi and Pakistanis last few decades. In return, we got 911 and a nuclear Pakistan that led to a nuclear Iran.</p>
<p>Let us change the game plan. Let us get Israel on board and offer Iran a deal. A no war pact, a nuclear umberella just like Japan and total non-interference. In return, Iran abandons Nuke plan, allows permanant US/NATO base, gives up army like Japan, gives up terrorism. Most importantly, lets us take out Pakistani nuckes either by giving US forces the platform to attack Pakistan or covert denuking Pakistan. </p>
<p>Pakistani nukes are financed by the Saudis and technology transfer from the Chinese. Eversince, Pakistan made their first nuke they started experiencing delusions of grandeur. They think they are the protectors of Islam by virtue of possession of what they proudly call &#8216;Islamic Bomb&#8217;. The evidence for this:<br />
1. Al Queda was created by Pakistani army/ISI intelligence agency right at the time they made their nukes.</p>
<p>Real Al queda is Pakistani army and their Intelligence agency (ISI). </p>
<p>2. They proliferated nuke technology to anti-western dictators in muslim world (except N.Korea where it was in exchange for missile tech). Here, you can see their agenda to destroy infidels.</p>
<p>You clean up Pakistan or you face Pakistani nuclear blackmail and later IRAN will copy the Pakistani playbook to bring down Israel and West just like Pakistan blackmails India. They got away with Mumbai attacks (2006, 2007 and 2008), Parliament attack (2001), Indian embassy attack in Afghanistan (2008) and many more attacks.</p>
<p>I may be biased being Indian, but there is no denying the facts that Pakistan is the epicenter of terrorism, nuclear proliferation and islamic fundamentalism.</p>
<p>Next nuclear attack, dirty bomb or even World War will be initiated by Pakistan. All roads lead to Pakistan. Denuke them now when they are vulnerable.</p>
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		<title>By: Angry Political Optimist</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-iran/#comment-8893</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry Political Optimist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/?p=343#comment-8893</guid>
		<description>AOC is correct.  There are virtually no national forces in the world today that can compete on the classic battlefield with US troops.  China and North Korea believe they can, but many are skeptical.   You may remember that after Gulf 1, most national armies revamped their thinking.   Gulf 2 insofar as conventional warfare was concerned, was even more successful than Gulf 1.  This is why opposition in Iraq had to resort to asymmetrical warfare, suicide tactics, and guerrilla urban tactics.  And with the adoption of the new FM 3-24, &quot;Counterinsurgency Field Manual&quot;, lessons learned first in Vietnam (and subsequently forgotten) then relearned in Iraq, the US Military is going to be even a tougher nut to crack.  And with continuing technological improvements, solutions will be found for suicide bombers and roadside IEDs removing a powerful weapon from the counterinsurgent. 

Again, as AOC suggests, the problem is really that with the world economy interconnected to the extent that it is, you cannot attack traditional military targets without damaging yourself or your allies.

Hugo Chavez has this same problem.  He would dearly love to wield his oil katatna at the US, but the US has the only refineries capable of processing his stinky oil.  Cutting the US off would hurt the US true, but would also completely dry up his oil revenue.  He would be shooting himself in the foot, or perhaps higher up and more to the centerline.

The way to successfully attack Iran (and all the other oil despots) is to eliminate oil as a source of energy (cf. &lt;a href=&quot;http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/how-to-build-a-lightsaber-reprise/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lightsaber&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AOC is correct.  There are virtually no national forces in the world today that can compete on the classic battlefield with US troops.  China and North Korea believe they can, but many are skeptical.   You may remember that after Gulf 1, most national armies revamped their thinking.   Gulf 2 insofar as conventional warfare was concerned, was even more successful than Gulf 1.  This is why opposition in Iraq had to resort to asymmetrical warfare, suicide tactics, and guerrilla urban tactics.  And with the adoption of the new FM 3-24, &#8220;Counterinsurgency Field Manual&#8221;, lessons learned first in Vietnam (and subsequently forgotten) then relearned in Iraq, the US Military is going to be even a tougher nut to crack.  And with continuing technological improvements, solutions will be found for suicide bombers and roadside IEDs removing a powerful weapon from the counterinsurgent. </p>
<p>Again, as AOC suggests, the problem is really that with the world economy interconnected to the extent that it is, you cannot attack traditional military targets without damaging yourself or your allies.</p>
<p>Hugo Chavez has this same problem.  He would dearly love to wield his oil katatna at the US, but the US has the only refineries capable of processing his stinky oil.  Cutting the US off would hurt the US true, but would also completely dry up his oil revenue.  He would be shooting himself in the foot, or perhaps higher up and more to the centerline.</p>
<p>The way to successfully attack Iran (and all the other oil despots) is to eliminate oil as a source of energy (cf. <a href="http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/how-to-build-a-lightsaber-reprise/" rel="nofollow">lightsaber</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Invade Iran Surround Pakistan Denuke Muslim World &#171; Old Atlantic Lighthouse</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-iran/#comment-8891</link>
		<dc:creator>Invade Iran Surround Pakistan Denuke Muslim World &#171; Old Atlantic Lighthouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/?p=343#comment-8891</guid>
		<description>[...] http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-ir... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-ir.." rel="nofollow">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-ir..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Angry Overeducated  Catholic</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/bad-to-worse-americas-options-on-iran-part-ii-invading-iran/#comment-8886</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry Overeducated  Catholic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/?p=343#comment-8886</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;. [T]he Iranians are well-trained and outfit with *lots* of kit — medium tanks, main battle tanks, sophisticated anti-tank weapons, missiles combat helicopters and aircraft. Most frightening is that the upper ranks of the Iranian officer corps knows how to conduct a serious fight — after all, they were all junior officers in the war against Iraq. Any ground invasion of Iran will be very, very messy, and lots of young men will be coming home in flag-draped coffins.&lt;/i&gt;

This is, of course, word for word what was said about Iraq in 1991 (and, for that matter in 2003).  And it&#039;s no more true of Iran than Iraq.  In fact, it&#039;s far less true.  The Iranians haven&#039;t conducted serious operations since the Iran-Iraq war and their air force will be swept from the skies by our overpriced nasty-ass F22s.

The terrain of Iran is far less favorable, of course, and casualties might well be higher because of that, but Iran&#039;s army is not to going to stand against us in open warfare.

And they don&#039;t need to.  Iran supplies 5% of the world&#039;s oil, the fourth largest producer and the fourth largest exporter.  Invading Iran would be like dropping a few tons of bombs on Japanese and Chinese industrial cities.  Not too friendly, and the Chinese especially might take it the wrong way.

And that&#039;s why invading Iran is a really bad idea.  It&#039;s also why assassinating Iran&#039;s leadership, fomenting a bloody revolution, or detonating a few EMPs above Iran are also bad ideas.  Anything which disrupts the flow of oil from Iran will be devastating to the world economy, and therefore a Bad Idea(tm) completely apart from the military issues involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>. [T]he Iranians are well-trained and outfit with *lots* of kit — medium tanks, main battle tanks, sophisticated anti-tank weapons, missiles combat helicopters and aircraft. Most frightening is that the upper ranks of the Iranian officer corps knows how to conduct a serious fight — after all, they were all junior officers in the war against Iraq. Any ground invasion of Iran will be very, very messy, and lots of young men will be coming home in flag-draped coffins.</i></p>
<p>This is, of course, word for word what was said about Iraq in 1991 (and, for that matter in 2003).  And it&#8217;s no more true of Iran than Iraq.  In fact, it&#8217;s far less true.  The Iranians haven&#8217;t conducted serious operations since the Iran-Iraq war and their air force will be swept from the skies by our overpriced nasty-ass F22s.</p>
<p>The terrain of Iran is far less favorable, of course, and casualties might well be higher because of that, but Iran&#8217;s army is not to going to stand against us in open warfare.</p>
<p>And they don&#8217;t need to.  Iran supplies 5% of the world&#8217;s oil, the fourth largest producer and the fourth largest exporter.  Invading Iran would be like dropping a few tons of bombs on Japanese and Chinese industrial cities.  Not too friendly, and the Chinese especially might take it the wrong way.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s why invading Iran is a really bad idea.  It&#8217;s also why assassinating Iran&#8217;s leadership, fomenting a bloody revolution, or detonating a few EMPs above Iran are also bad ideas.  Anything which disrupts the flow of oil from Iran will be devastating to the world economy, and therefore a Bad Idea(tm) completely apart from the military issues involved.</p>
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