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	<title>Comments on: Burn, Baby, Burn? On Living in Deserts</title>
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	<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/</link>
	<description>Sermo humanus per verba irata</description>
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		<title>By: Ending Famine, Simply by Ignoring the Experts &#171; The Keelynet Blog</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-8121</link>
		<dc:creator>Ending Famine, Simply by Ignoring the Experts &#171; The Keelynet Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-8121</guid>
		<description>[...] His routine during the Ethiopian famine of the early to mid ’80s, with the famous punch line: &#8220;YOU LIVE IN A DESERT! YOU LIVE IN A F—ING DESERT! NOTHING GROWS OUT HERE! NOTHING’S GONNA GROW OUT HERE! YOU SEE THIS? HUH? THIS IS SAND. KNOW WHAT IT’S GONNA BE A HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW? IT’S GONNA BE SAND! YOU LIVE IN A F—ING DESERT! GET YOUR STUFF, GET YOUR SH!T, WE’LL MAKE ONE TRIP, WE’LL TAKE YOU TO WHERE THE FOOD IS! WE HAVE DESERTS IN AMERICA — WE JUST DON’T LIVE IN THEM, A$$HOLES!” – From an appearance on Rodney Dangerfield’s “It’s Not Easy Being Me,” 1984.&#8221; - Source [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] His routine during the Ethiopian famine of the early to mid ’80s, with the famous punch line: &#8220;YOU LIVE IN A DESERT! YOU LIVE IN A F—ING DESERT! NOTHING GROWS OUT HERE! NOTHING’S GONNA GROW OUT HERE! YOU SEE THIS? HUH? THIS IS SAND. KNOW WHAT IT’S GONNA BE A HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW? IT’S GONNA BE SAND! YOU LIVE IN A F—ING DESERT! GET YOUR STUFF, GET YOUR SH!T, WE’LL MAKE ONE TRIP, WE’LL TAKE YOU TO WHERE THE FOOD IS! WE HAVE DESERTS IN AMERICA — WE JUST DON’T LIVE IN THEM, A$$HOLES!” – From an appearance on Rodney Dangerfield’s “It’s Not Easy Being Me,” 1984.&#8221; &#8211; Source [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mildlypiquedacademician</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4572</link>
		<dc:creator>mildlypiquedacademician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4572</guid>
		<description>#  Ry Jones Says:
November 1, 2007 at 7:31 am e

###Western Washington and Oregon are nearly rain forests. Eastern Washington and Oregon, though, are high plains deserts.###

Whoops, my bad. I got my directions backwards. :) It is fixed now. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#  Ry Jones Says:<br />
November 1, 2007 at 7:31 am e</p>
<p>###Western Washington and Oregon are nearly rain forests. Eastern Washington and Oregon, though, are high plains deserts.###</p>
<p>Whoops, my bad. I got my directions backwards. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  It is fixed now.</p>
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		<title>By: Ry Jones</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4536</link>
		<dc:creator>Ry Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 13:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4536</guid>
		<description>Western Washington and Oregon are nearly rain forests. Eastern Washington and Oregon, though, are high plains deserts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Western Washington and Oregon are nearly rain forests. Eastern Washington and Oregon, though, are high plains deserts.</p>
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		<title>By: Mythophile</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4309</link>
		<dc:creator>Mythophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4309</guid>
		<description>As a resident swamp dweller, I can assure you that only stupid people live in deserts...or in cities below sea level where floods and hurricanes occur frequently.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a resident swamp dweller, I can assure you that only stupid people live in deserts&#8230;or in cities below sea level where floods and hurricanes occur frequently.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mildlypiquedacademician</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4299</link>
		<dc:creator>mildlypiquedacademician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4299</guid>
		<description>AOC wrote:

###Truer, if not more eloquent, words were never spoken…###

Thank you. Thank you. I&#039;ll be here all week. :) 

There are many variants. Here&#039;s one: 

Any plan that depends on the assumption your enemies are stupid is itself stupid.

etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AOC wrote:</p>
<p>###Truer, if not more eloquent, words were never spoken…###</p>
<p>Thank you. Thank you. I&#8217;ll be here all week. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>There are many variants. Here&#8217;s one: </p>
<p>Any plan that depends on the assumption your enemies are stupid is itself stupid.</p>
<p>etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Angry Overeducated  Catholic</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4298</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry Overeducated  Catholic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4298</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If your development plan depends on assuming that no psychos exist, it’s not a plan worth a bottle of rat piss.&lt;/i&gt;

Truer, if not more eloquent, words were never spoken...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If your development plan depends on assuming that no psychos exist, it’s not a plan worth a bottle of rat piss.</i></p>
<p>Truer, if not more eloquent, words were never spoken&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mildlypiquedacademician</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4296</link>
		<dc:creator>mildlypiquedacademician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4296</guid>
		<description>Angry Immigrant wrote:

###The usual narrative out here is that population growth and corporate greed causes expansion into previously undeveloped areas causing harm to the natural environment and putting people in danger during these horrible fires which are completely natural, but only harmful because people live near them. If only people would die off and evil corporations would donate to Greenpeace then there wouldn’t be a problem at all.###

The fact that the narrative is written by dipshits is, of course, to be expected (California?), but it is true that people are living where they didn&#039;t used to. Often land that was previously uninhabited was that way for a reason.... 


###The vast majority of wildfires in the past few years (certainly this year) were not caused by global warming; they were caused by arson. Lunatics and criminals looking for some attention or excitement (or somewhere close to Hollywood where they could put out a cigarette).###

The problem is that arsonists are only the proximate cause. They&#039;re taking advantage of the fact that a situation exists of vulnerable houses scattered all over the place in a crazy development plan with uncontrolled underbrush in an ill-watered area. If your development plan depends on assuming that no psychos exist, it&#039;s not a plan worth a bottle of rat piss. 


###Overall, I don’t expect much will change after these fires. Malibu will still be full of rich idiots replacing their now unfashionably flammable houses with this seasons new mud-slidable ones. Canyon Country will still be full of mismanaged wild-growing brush.### 

Of course things won&#039;t change. The same damn thing happened in 2003 as is happening this year, and has happened before, because people are building houses in stupid places. That&#039;s my point (if I had one). When the same thing happens over and over again, you have to look at what&#039;s up beyond the proximate causes. 


###San Diego will still be full of Transcendental Meditation enthusiasts.###

??? I thought San Diego was basically THE hardcore Republican area of Cali? Well that and Orange County. Not that these are mutually exclusive, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angry Immigrant wrote:</p>
<p>###The usual narrative out here is that population growth and corporate greed causes expansion into previously undeveloped areas causing harm to the natural environment and putting people in danger during these horrible fires which are completely natural, but only harmful because people live near them. If only people would die off and evil corporations would donate to Greenpeace then there wouldn’t be a problem at all.###</p>
<p>The fact that the narrative is written by dipshits is, of course, to be expected (California?), but it is true that people are living where they didn&#8217;t used to. Often land that was previously uninhabited was that way for a reason&#8230;. </p>
<p>###The vast majority of wildfires in the past few years (certainly this year) were not caused by global warming; they were caused by arson. Lunatics and criminals looking for some attention or excitement (or somewhere close to Hollywood where they could put out a cigarette).###</p>
<p>The problem is that arsonists are only the proximate cause. They&#8217;re taking advantage of the fact that a situation exists of vulnerable houses scattered all over the place in a crazy development plan with uncontrolled underbrush in an ill-watered area. If your development plan depends on assuming that no psychos exist, it&#8217;s not a plan worth a bottle of rat piss. </p>
<p>###Overall, I don’t expect much will change after these fires. Malibu will still be full of rich idiots replacing their now unfashionably flammable houses with this seasons new mud-slidable ones. Canyon Country will still be full of mismanaged wild-growing brush.### </p>
<p>Of course things won&#8217;t change. The same damn thing happened in 2003 as is happening this year, and has happened before, because people are building houses in stupid places. That&#8217;s my point (if I had one). When the same thing happens over and over again, you have to look at what&#8217;s up beyond the proximate causes. </p>
<p>###San Diego will still be full of Transcendental Meditation enthusiasts.###</p>
<p>??? I thought San Diego was basically THE hardcore Republican area of Cali? Well that and Orange County. Not that these are mutually exclusive, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Angry Illini Husker</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4290</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry Illini Husker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4290</guid>
		<description>I definitely agree with the AI&#039;s perspective, particularly his remarks about the &quot;environmentalists&quot;, who should really be named &quot;preservation-at-all-costs-niks&quot;. This idea that we need to preserve everything in nature because it has that natural beauty which urbanism deprives us of is ignorant of basic biology. How many cycles were learned there? The ironic twist to all of this, as I&#039;ve come to understand it, is that hunters and fishers actually have a better grasp of being an environmentalist, something that should stick into the craw of the &quot;P-A-A-C-niks&quot; 



Disclaimer: The AIH does work for a retailer of hunting and fishing gear</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree with the AI&#8217;s perspective, particularly his remarks about the &#8220;environmentalists&#8221;, who should really be named &#8220;preservation-at-all-costs-niks&#8221;. This idea that we need to preserve everything in nature because it has that natural beauty which urbanism deprives us of is ignorant of basic biology. How many cycles were learned there? The ironic twist to all of this, as I&#8217;ve come to understand it, is that hunters and fishers actually have a better grasp of being an environmentalist, something that should stick into the craw of the &#8220;P-A-A-C-niks&#8221; </p>
<p>Disclaimer: The AIH does work for a retailer of hunting and fishing gear</p>
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		<title>By: Angry Immigrant</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4284</link>
		<dc:creator>Angry Immigrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 05:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4284</guid>
		<description>The particular flammability of my current location on my travels has really hit home this year.  Not -my- home, but other people&#039;s.  

It&#039;s like someone put out their cigarette on the southwestern coast line.
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/194329main_socalfire1-20071025_HI.jpg

The usual narrative out here is that population growth and corporate greed causes expansion into previously undeveloped areas causing harm to the natural environment and putting people in danger during these horrible fires which are completely natural, but only harmful because people live near them.  If only people would die off and evil corporations would donate to Greenpeace then there wouldn&#039;t be a problem at all.

It&#039;s still not clear to me how corporations fit into the mix, but that&#039;s how the story is told.  

The Pavlovian response &quot;Global Warming!&quot; is the dullest part of the entire event.  It&#039;s like playing word association games with a moron -- Wildfire -&gt; Global Warming! -- Flood -&gt; Global Warming!  --  A new baby panda was born at the zoo -&gt; Global Warming! -- The earth as a whole is getting cooler -&gt; Global Warming! -- Banana! -&gt; Global Warming!

The vast majority of wildfires in the past few years (certainly this year) were not caused by global warming; they were caused by arson.  Lunatics and criminals looking for some attention or excitement (or somewhere close to Hollywood where they could put out a cigarette).  

The point that environmentalist pressure against controlled burn off and residential brush clearing contributes to the intensity of the eventual wildfires is largely ignored.  Maybe with less Global Warming (tm), there would be fewer environmentalists, and therefore less uncleared brush on residential and federal land.  

A 200 yard perimeter of nothing higher than mown grass would be a good start.  But there are probably endangered squirrels in that brush, so you can&#039;t cut it down.  Lot of good it did them -- who wants some freshly roasted squirrel?

At this point the people with the resources to bring disaster relief into place are largely the (evil!) corporations who can aim their annual tax write-off donations to a local aid station, donate temporary office space, and provide food and water to displaced people.

This charity on the part of large companies will be heralded for about 60-72 hours, then forgotten as they go back to being demonized for the environmental impact of the temporary shelters they helped finance and deliver.

Overall, I don&#039;t expect much will change after these fires.  Malibu will still be full of rich idiots replacing their now unfashionably flammable houses with this seasons new mud-slidable ones.  Canyon Country will still be full of mismanaged wild-growing brush.  San Diego will still be full of Transcendental Meditation enthusiasts.

Once the smoke clears, we&#039;ll breathe easier and enjoy the clear skies again.  That is, we&#039;ll choke slightly less and return to merely our normal level of smoky haze again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The particular flammability of my current location on my travels has really hit home this year.  Not -my- home, but other people&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like someone put out their cigarette on the southwestern coast line.<br />
<a href="http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/194329main_socalfire1-20071025_HI.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/194329main_socalfire1-20071025_HI.jpg</a></p>
<p>The usual narrative out here is that population growth and corporate greed causes expansion into previously undeveloped areas causing harm to the natural environment and putting people in danger during these horrible fires which are completely natural, but only harmful because people live near them.  If only people would die off and evil corporations would donate to Greenpeace then there wouldn&#8217;t be a problem at all.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s still not clear to me how corporations fit into the mix, but that&#8217;s how the story is told.  </p>
<p>The Pavlovian response &#8220;Global Warming!&#8221; is the dullest part of the entire event.  It&#8217;s like playing word association games with a moron &#8212; Wildfire -&gt; Global Warming! &#8212; Flood -&gt; Global Warming!  &#8212;  A new baby panda was born at the zoo -&gt; Global Warming! &#8212; The earth as a whole is getting cooler -&gt; Global Warming! &#8212; Banana! -&gt; Global Warming!</p>
<p>The vast majority of wildfires in the past few years (certainly this year) were not caused by global warming; they were caused by arson.  Lunatics and criminals looking for some attention or excitement (or somewhere close to Hollywood where they could put out a cigarette).  </p>
<p>The point that environmentalist pressure against controlled burn off and residential brush clearing contributes to the intensity of the eventual wildfires is largely ignored.  Maybe with less Global Warming &#8482;, there would be fewer environmentalists, and therefore less uncleared brush on residential and federal land.  </p>
<p>A 200 yard perimeter of nothing higher than mown grass would be a good start.  But there are probably endangered squirrels in that brush, so you can&#8217;t cut it down.  Lot of good it did them &#8212; who wants some freshly roasted squirrel?</p>
<p>At this point the people with the resources to bring disaster relief into place are largely the (evil!) corporations who can aim their annual tax write-off donations to a local aid station, donate temporary office space, and provide food and water to displaced people.</p>
<p>This charity on the part of large companies will be heralded for about 60-72 hours, then forgotten as they go back to being demonized for the environmental impact of the temporary shelters they helped finance and deliver.</p>
<p>Overall, I don&#8217;t expect much will change after these fires.  Malibu will still be full of rich idiots replacing their now unfashionably flammable houses with this seasons new mud-slidable ones.  Canyon Country will still be full of mismanaged wild-growing brush.  San Diego will still be full of Transcendental Meditation enthusiasts.</p>
<p>Once the smoke clears, we&#8217;ll breathe easier and enjoy the clear skies again.  That is, we&#8217;ll choke slightly less and return to merely our normal level of smoky haze again.</p>
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		<title>By: mildlypiquedacademician</title>
		<link>http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4251</link>
		<dc:creator>mildlypiquedacademician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/burn-baby-burn-on-living-in-deserts/#comment-4251</guid>
		<description>APO wrote:

###As I was watching the CNN news on the fires, one of the things I noticed which really ‘burned’ me up was how CNN kept connecting the fires with global warming and hooking it into their ‘The Planet in Peril’ special.###

Well, as I said earlier, we DO love a good cry, but a good scare will do in a pinch.... :)

Seriously, &quot;California burning&quot; isn&#039;t a global warming issue per se, though climate change might well make it more (or less) extreme in certain areas as weather patterns shift. The larger issue of living in deserts is, however, going to be more and more of a factor as (a) populations grow and we therefore move into marginal land where people didn&#039;t live before, at least not intensively, and (b) water demand goes up. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>APO wrote:</p>
<p>###As I was watching the CNN news on the fires, one of the things I noticed which really ‘burned’ me up was how CNN kept connecting the fires with global warming and hooking it into their ‘The Planet in Peril’ special.###</p>
<p>Well, as I said earlier, we DO love a good cry, but a good scare will do in a pinch&#8230;. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Seriously, &#8220;California burning&#8221; isn&#8217;t a global warming issue per se, though climate change might well make it more (or less) extreme in certain areas as weather patterns shift. The larger issue of living in deserts is, however, going to be more and more of a factor as (a) populations grow and we therefore move into marginal land where people didn&#8217;t live before, at least not intensively, and (b) water demand goes up.</p>
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